chenplayer

I agree Dan is awesome

I find this an interesting thread, espically about knife attacks. Funny thing is no matter how many "realistic" martial art styles you learn and no matter how good the knife disarms work or look like it works, you will never really be fully prepared to tackle an agressor who has a knife. The reason being in all of those demonstrations it never a real knife and if it is it is never a life and death struggle. Biggest thing you cant train for is being cut and the mental strain it puts on you when you do get cut (not even talking about getting stabbed). Su dong Chen (look him up, awesome teacher) was asked how he would deal with a knife attack. He rolled up his sleves showing his scars from actual knife attacks, pulls out a knife and cuts himself with out a hint of hesitation. Story being is he has been cut so many time from practice and actual knife attacks the fear is no longer there. He knows he will get cut, he just has to focus on reducing said damage.

Just like when you practice sparring with or without a skilled person as you opponent. You will be hit, you will get hurt, but the more you do it the less you fear being hit/hurt, and the less you fear the more you can deal with the situation. Show me a man (or women) who has never been hit EVER in martial arts and i will show you some one who can't fight.

P.S. funny side story from one of the Gracies (don't know exactly who i think it was Ralph), Give me a black belt in jiujitsu who has never fought, and I punch him in the face, he becomes a brown belt. I punch him again he becomes a purple belt, until utimatley he is a white belt then i choke him out.

When truth literally hurts...lol

One thing I learned from my years practicing martial arts, (over 15 years now), Is that there is very few people who can use internal martial arts in a fight. Not saying its impossible, but the current level out there is no where near the level of fighters now. I practice i liq chuan with a fantastic teacher and love the internal arts, but i see that internal arts are very very very hard to get down due to the high demand of body mechanics being cohesive and precise. It will take years of constant practice ( and I mean like hours and hours each day) just to get the movement right, then when you get that down you have to learn how to use it in a fight......not an easy task.

I find it funny when people think MMA fighter would lose to some internal guys or even street fighters (the whole no rules BS). Let me just put it this was, an MMA fighter trains all day for one purpose to become a good fighter. He spars, eats right, trains his body to make it strong (cardio, body weight training....ect) Most important of all he fights on the reg. He knows what works because he has fought and found out what does and dosen't. Its almost like saying I can beat Micheal Jordan in basketball if it was street ball (no rules..ect). Its just funny. All training is hard, very hard, and old school internal master like the Yang's, Sun Lu Tang, ect..all trained super hard, not just the forms, but the basic conditioning excersices (which are lost in most schools), to produce a strong body in order to make the movements right. They trained like MMA guys just in a different way. No one trains like that any more, and if they do those master are very hard to find.

Also on the whole John Chang thing.....I just am tired of hearing about him...its like talking about spiderman..to me he is just as fictional. I have seen the videos and read the Magus of Java, but all of that means nothing. He style of nei kung is supposed be martial oriented and yet very few of his students get past what ever dumb level system they have. Why? since he is so good why can't he impart this knowledge...at least ONE person should be able to get somewhere. But that is neither here or there, stop chasing spiderman, train hard, find out things on your own, don't just accept and believe (just as bad as being a skeptic). Find out for yourself, test it like the masters of old, then demonstarte and pass it on.

We work about 50/50 in my school especially in the beginning. We Learn to dodge punches while getting in close and "sticking" to our opponent. We learn how to get out of head locks or surprise behind chokes. I was taught a cool pressure point on the jaw to help release a strong grip. Then of course we get into drills and ground type stuffs. It depends on the school I guess. But what I love above all else is when you try all these things it's from live resistance you learn on the job so to speak and I find that most valuable of all.

I understand Starjumper I am the ever learning student, I would also thank you for your imput and sharing of information this is how the martial arts community grows and as it grows we grow as people. You seem to be very grounded and a plaesure to talk too as the rest of the fine posters in this thread. I am very happy it did not turn out to be this is better than that!!! lol. You have all made my day!!!

I extend my hand to you as a kung fu brother in a sign of freindship.

the text is wrong, if you go to the other link it will explain everything. The guy is push hands champ from the Cheng man ching lineage.

Here is some background of the video being discussed

http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=18795

Video of my teacher Marcelo against push hands champ from Taiwan.

http://www.aikiweb.com/forums/showthread.php?t=20793

http://www.sherdog.com/news/interviews/6-Questions-for-Rickson-Gracie-36352

http://rumsoakedfist.org/viewtopic.php?f=20&t=15753&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&sid=0670a10629ebee02f3f5e1159b657a86&start=30

That's why elbow locks and knee locks do so much damage. We don't have tons of muscles there since all the fine movement, cartilage, ect. Neck has tons of muscle.

We'll from side control you can place your forearm on the hinge of the jaw and jus press down with your weight. Also you have to realize the necks of most judo guys and bjj guys are built like tanks from all the neck grabbing and chokes. The muscles around the necks of the top levels guys are unreal. Also since I am also in med school breaking ones neck from twisting it is very very hard. Just like when Muay Thai guys or karate guys break those bats with their legs but can't break legs like that is because where are designed with all or muscles and tendons to resist things like that. Out neck muscle even untrained are very hard and resistant when put under pressure. Forget when adrenalin kicks in you become super man. Lol. That why you aim for easier targets to hurt with minimum power. Also friendly or no friendly both serve bjj we'll. just like taijiquan you go with the flow you can either be passive or very aggressive. It's your choice.

Yeah you could technically but the problem with neck breaks just like any technique is that you have to do them in order to get good at them. That's why Judo, Bjj, Muay Thai, some Chen tai chi guys, Some bagua guys like Serge Augier, train live sparring. You have to use it in pressure situations. Also as you can see both Bjj guy and Taichi guy were more friendly sparring than anything. In bjj first thing you learn is how to get out of that headlock, but it's not very friendly.

Also funny story had a guy bite me once when I was arm barring him surprising how you stop biting when your arm is broken.

Would like to put my two cents in. I have fought in Japan in full contact karate (kyokushin), and now I train bjj with Marcelo Garcia and let me tell you it easier said then done avoiding the take down. Bjj guys don't just shoot the use arm drags, judo throws there is many ways on engagement.

Wish you the best of luck heard amazing things about Serge. If any one lives in London you should check this out.

you should meet Master Waysun Liao or some of his senior students. Master Liao can "fling" people across rooms with the lightest of touches. My teacher describes his experience with such a "Fa Jing" as follows:

 

"It was as though he (Master Liao) just lifted me up and suspended me in space and time and the world rotated till the wall hit me in the back and I fell to the ground".

 

When my teacher did it with me, under far more controlled conditions, it felt like I'd touched a live wire. When he condenses his energy, it feels like "Iron wrapped in cotton", but there's nothing physical going on there. It is all energy.

I might have come out sounding that I did not believe that some one can "fling" without effort. I do believe masters can do that, like Master Liao. I was just stating that it was not just the form practice that gave him that ability. Like the Yang's I am very sure he did a lot of gong training on order for his body to be ready to issue energy like that. It like putting a scooter engine in a corvette. You have to get your body in the best physical condition before you can have your energy moving to the point you can issue and "fling". I feel a lot of people today feel that the form is enough and just meditating and trying to make the qi flow is all you need. Yin and Yang you need both soft AND hard training.

I wanted to chime in here for a bit. If you guys ever get a chance you should head over to rum soaked fists awesome forum. Anyways there was a thread (will look up if I have the time), explaining that the reason the yang's became famous as fighters is because of the gong training they did. It was said that before they even got to learn the form(they as in sons of Yang lu chan), they spent years doing the gong practice to develop as mjjbecker puts it well, body awareness and of course the required strength. The soft has to go with hard and vice versa. Everybody wants to fajin and fling people with super softness but the truth of the matter is gong training is required, lots and lots of it and it all physical and hard. You need to build your tendons and fascia to become steel wrapped in cotton. There is no escaping hard work.

I just purchased the book. Will give a heads up when I get it.

Thank you for all the responses! I know that making pleas and asking for every one to play nice sometimes doesn't work but it is nice to hear what other members feel and see us all on the same page. I am truly grateful for being part of this community and only want it to grow and prosper. I also agree that sometimes people need to be asked questions due to scammers and snake oil salesmen that appear, I just feel it doesn't need to go a thousand pages to due so. We can all just band together ask for a reasonable answer and if none is given abandon the thread like it was the titanic. Again my intentions where not to put any one down or accuse any one of anything. We are all human and we have the right to choose what we do and say. I hope I haven't offended any one in making this post and I hope I did not waste any ones time. Thank you for hearing me out and I wish you all a wonderful and blessed day.

Just want to chime in here for a moment because things seem to be getting out of hand. It's one of the finger pointing to the moon conundrums. A former poster here called mjjbecker who has actually met mister Chang says a lot of great things that I feel need to be re-read because he really puts everything in beautiful perspective. Hopefully he won't be mad that I am quoting him.

"Will only sitting meditation put qi into the dantien? No. In 2002, when Pak John visited Athens, he tested a woman who had 75% filled her dantien. Her main practice was taijiquan and to my knowledge she did not practice sitting meditation. "

"You have the moving methods that are taught in various schools that are trained alongside sitting meditation. Can they still the mind and can a person gather qi through them? Yes. We know that from the woman who practiced taijiquan. I myself have achieved a stilling of the mind and 'connected oneness' (words can't come close to the explaining the experience) by practing part of the taijiquan form I mentioned above, but also, significantly, from practicing the 18 step taiji qigong method years ago. Not a so-called neigong method, but for me one of the most profound training experiences of my life was gained while doing this. And it can be learned for free off the internet."

"Do you have to be sitting on the ground to gather yin qi as well as yang qi? No. The Hunyuan neigong has very specific standing practices for gathering in yin qi through the Huiyin. I think you know the significance of that. "

Well said from some one even though I have never met him I have a lot of respect for because what he says rings with absolute truth. Mo Pai, Third Eye, Shanghai tie die, all mean nothing just practice inner cultivation, whatever it is, and you will get there.

He might have done it in Boston. Last time I remembered he had a thing with Harvard university. If you time in Harvard and his name the article should pop up. Also rutsam Roy (I think that how you spell his name...haha) had a gathering just for the phenomenon of bigu.

Hey drew this might be off topic but I remember some one asking you if yan xin has done any recent research on qigong. Well I found one February of this year. Thought you would enjoy this. http://www.karger.com/Article/Fulltext/343354#OLN

I have done my fair searching on both Alex and serge and I have never come across more people attesting to how amazing they are. Like on a whole new level amazing. Guys at rumsoaked fists, empty flower, and even some dudes on bullshido all acknowledge these to great men as the real deal. If I wasn't overseas in med school I would fly to Paris or the UK to train with one of these treasures. Trust Gerard these men are the best of the best. (would like to give a small shout out to Paul whitrod, another master I would do anything to train under)

peace and blessings.

P.S. I got your pm myth and would love to when I get back to the states in May. Wishing you and your sifu much blessings.