flowing hands

I am going to educate you: Fact: A Messiah does not come into the Daoist Pantheon, a Messiah is of the Jewish/Christian religions, where they believe in one God and a Messiah is the messenger from this single God. Now the Daoist religion believes in many gods and spirits and has a leader only to oversee that things are not going too wrong (Yu Whang Shan Ti). So on my website you have read that I was once an Immortal. That is not a messiah, wrong religion, and sure since an adult I have been landed with the knowledge of the future which I have endeavored to tell people for all our sake's, but of course there are many of my brothers and sisters who practice what I do. They may not have been an Immortal in their last life and landed with the job of telling everyone what the future holds, but they are the same as me. We are not messiahs. Fact: I come from a genuine sect of which temples can be visited, I was baptised by another shaman in a trance after first being accepted. What I say comes from the teachings I have received from my Immortal Masters. Many people have benefited from these over the years when I have given them. You have not had the benefit of my teachings personally so I think you are not even in any position to judge whether they are rubbish or not. Fact: "un-holyman". Personal insults show a high degree of inadequacy, that's why I felt sorry for you. Fact: You are displaying the countenance of someone who is very arrogant, you misquote peoples words for your own ends, an example as above, I did not say as you quoted: "Unholy-man said: "I spoke to Lao Zi in 1986". No I said quite clearly "and now my DDJ that My teacher Li Erh Xian Shi taught me in 1986" Please note that you have used quote marks to indicate to others that that is exactly what I said, but it wasn't, was it. How many times in posts have you done this?

I really do feel sorry for you, I have read a lot of your posts throughout the Dao Bums and you come across so arrogant and all knowing, ready to debunk everyone apart from anyone who agrees with you. I have shown you and others that you are indeed very lacking even in your basic knowledge of traditional Daoist practises and yet you remain convinced of your own 'authority' to make judgement on others and myself included, mocking my title of Holyman and now my DDJ that My teacher Li Erh Xian Shi taught me in 1986.You have not met me, you know very little about me or to my history, but you are ready to criticize and to debase what great treasure I was given. This treasure gives the English speaking world a far greater insight into Daoism than any other, because it talks of real neidan and a true path to finding the Dao which can be found. Holymen/women are very dangerous and powerful humans, their connection to the spirit world is one that is fixed and consolidated. The spirit world is a world that ordinary people should never dabble with, for the spirit world will interfere with the mortal world when things have gone too far. Don't go too far is my advice to you, you are treading on toes that most knowledgeable people would never go near. Over all the years of being a Holyman I have experienced them and seen the Immortals in Heaven give people real lessons that they need to learn. It may be a harsh way of learning but it certainly is real. Don't debase that which is pure and comes from the mouths of Immortals, for there lies a path for a true lesson to be taught.

Next reference is Al chuang-Liang Huang 'Embrace tiger return to mountain' book. Calligraphy section; Al Huang explains about the radicals of the word Dao which clearly depict a shamans head and a foot. This man is well respected Tai chi teacher. Haven't been able to copy the chapter, until I find it among all my clutter of books. I am sure I can dig many more

TERMS COMMON TO ALL FOUR MAJOR TRADITIONS "Dao 道 This term is often translated as “the Way,” but the increasing use of the Chinese term in contemporary English makes it better to leave the term untranslated. In ancient texts, the word Dao actually possesses a wide range of meanings. The earliest known forms of the graph for Dao include elements showing a foot, a crossroads, and an eye decorated with an elaborate eyebrow, an element that represents the word shou 首: head. The head element may have served only to denote the phonetic value of the word dao (the two words were related phonetically in Old Chinese), but the graph may also have been designed to convey semantic information, indicating an early use connected with magical incantations and dances performed by a shaman (a person able to communicate with the world of spirits) as he or she purified a pathway to be used in a religious procession. If so, then from this pathway connection, the word Dao derives its modern meaning of a path or way; from the formula of the dance, the word derives a meaning of “formula,” “method”; from the spoken element of the incantation, the word derives the meaning of “a teaching,” and also serves as a verb “to speak.”

Oh dear too much mind training turns one into an inattentive, inaccurate and arrogant person with insane ideas about their own knowledge and abilities, especially when they are quoting how accurate they are and able and how others are "crazy and sick". Seems to me you've slipped up. There is nowhere that I have said in this thread that Lei Erh was a shaman. I have never said I was a Kung Fu champion either. I'm certainly not interested in the slightest in hypnotizing you, or anyone else if it matters; you seem to be beyond accessible teaching in any case. I am not interested in the slightest in your brand of closed and what appears to be blinkered Daoism. I am not interested in your opinion or wasting my time and this will be my last reply to you. You can ridicule who I am, what my title is, what I do etc etc. does not really matter to me. No, I'm not selling my teachings you can't buy them, so no hurt to my rice bowl. I had to prove myself and make myself completely humble to stand for an hour at a time everyday for a year, facing the eastern heaven and begging in my heart for the Immortal masters to come, before the Immortal master would teach me martial art. I have proved beyond your shallow mind games my physical and mental discipline to achieve what I have done in 34 years of training under first Huang Lao Xian Shi, and his bond brothers and then Hau Tuo Xian Shi took over to teach me TCM and different neigong and Qigong. You can say and think what you like the truth will out one way or another.

You are just playing with words and what ever has been dug up by modern people. The difference is I have access to peoples who lived thousands of years ago who have passed from the material world and into the energy world, call it spirit. They were there, they lived that culture and were alive. A wu was actually a female shaman so described as in ancient times the female was venerated as producing magic in giving life to another life. People thought that this natural act was something supernatural before they understood the connections between sex and reproduction. Some women are very sensitive, sometimes more so than men and they developed a sensitivity to the energy of other life and then on to the unseen spirit world. A question mark has been put on many practices by our friend who considers himself beyond any learning, who feels he can openly criticize anyone from any other sect or teaching, because perhaps he is making money by selling his practice. He reminds me of the self made Taoist Mak jo si of Chi in nature, who basically knew nothing of any real value, throw something that any real Daoist would know and they flounder by then devaluing whatever you have said. That is the key to this person practice, throw anything of value at them and they will devalue it as being wrong or nothing or not real. Shamanism to give it a modern word, was the beginning of Daoism. Lao Tzu didn't just up and write all those pages by himself. He was surrounded by a deeply spiritual and shamanistic culture that had existed for many thousands of years before. Modern intellectual exercises in trying to stereotype peoples cultures, practices and beliefs are just that. You really don't know because you weren't there, there is not enough sufficient evidence to say what was there and what did people believe or call things, but I do know on good authority that the word 'Dao' was first called 'sprirt way', which came from wu. I say again the two pictograms that make up the word 'Dao' are a foot and head of a wu wearing deer antlers. This is the root of Dao. Even intellectuals agree with this.

Any way Jesus did tell me that he was not happy with all his followers who seem to think it is a good thing to wear him on their chests and other place showing him being tortured and in death! There was nothing wrong with Jesus as a person, only all the stuff, the churches and the religion that followed, not forgetting the bible as well!

You are showing ignorance again, the Chinese is 'Fa fu', a very traditional way of shamans. Of the Immortal master giving their power to heal and help others. Have you never even seen the Daoist Cannon? It is not subjective, it is a traditional practice and many people can testify to its efficacy. It is well known in traditional Daoism that shamans are taught by Immortals and many are blessed with being taught their martial arts. If you have ever ingrained yourself in the indigineous population of say Malaysia, you would know that this is talked about quite frequently in Daoist practices. In the book of Taoist Master Chuang, you can read this master drawing the 'fu' on the ground and his son was taught martial arts spiritually. I met one day in London a famous Chinese Kung Fu Master, he turned out to be of the same sect as myself. He asked me where I had learn't my Kung Fu I said from the Immortal Masters, he said "oh that is very good indeed". He himself said he could draw the 'FA FU', but had never been able to get the Immortal master to teach him Kung Fu. So my teaching comes from a very deep and well established background based around traditional Chinese society where they exist in Malaysia, Hong Kong, Taiwan and Singapore. Where does your lineage come from, please tell us I would like to communicate with your teacher and ask him some questions. If you want to ask my teachers, face the eastern Heaven on your knees, and with all your heart beg them to come to you and answer your questions. Of course such Immortals are only interested in those that are humble, do you feel you can be empty of ego and submit yourself as being and knowing nothing? I have just looked on your site, you are Russian are you not and you say you have learn't from a Chinese master in China. Read about the Cultural Revolution and what happened. Virtually all Daoist Masters went away to various places around the world and what was left in China were jailed or murdered. Manuscripts and teachings were burnt, practices banned. There really are very little left of real Daoism in China, it is all watered down and then passed down. Now I know why you have never heard of the 'fa fu'.

See my post on the other thread. Remember how Lei Erh dealt with Confucius in their alleged meeting and this was only about ones perspective on Dao. Lei Erh had no time for such people as Confucius who 'played' with the Dao. Opendao needs someone like me to show him an abrupt picture of himself and how he is conducting himself. Perhaps he may learn and grow. Making someone happy and giving them realizations is not about being nice to people. True understanding comes from real experience; this can be devastating

Hey, So what are you saying, that as a compassionate person one is not allowed to say anything that may smack of a truth or of a differing opinion. That seems to me to be heading towards dictatorship or namby pamby abuse where people are allowed to carry on abusing others taking away there freedom of speech and their thoughts because as in this case the person concerned deems to inflict their opinion about things that not only are technical, historical and perspectives but are giving their opinion on what others experience as being non valid. The Dao is balanced remember this, the gods in the Heavens are equally not compassionate where abusers and fools are concerned. Don't abuse my good name because of your lack of balance.

You really are a very arrogant and silly person who thinks they know about Dao but displays all the qualities of someone who really hasn't an idea about what you are doing or what you are saying. My advice to you as a Holyman is to forget whatever you hold as being Dao for you really have not the slightest idea about what you are doing or the real teachings of Lei Erh Xian Shi. According to you, you think you know it all. If this is your attitude, then stay away from Daoist forums and interacting with others, whats the point? As far as I can see you have not grasped even the basics principles.

Lets deal with some common errors that you are making. Shamanism was the beginning of traditional Daoism that is why firstly the yin/yang symbol comes from shamanism. Secondly the very word 'Dao' comes from two pictograms, a shamans head wearing deer antlers and a foot. Being a trained and baptised shaman I can tell you on good authority that Immortals are real, living, energy beings who can materialize themselves at will and I have experienced meetings with such masters in the flesh. What you are talking about as 'Immortals as illusions' is just a particular sect or sects. But many sects of Daoism believe and know the opposite and their practice is all about self cultivation to become an Immortal and to communicate with Immortals and spirits. I have not had a human teacher, yet I have been a nationally awarded Kung Fu master, been a judge at the national championships and my students won medals in the forms. So who taught me? Was it just an illusion? Everybody follows Dao, everybody is a Daoist by the very nature of what Dao is.

The mind of course makes its own reality, how we perceive is down to many differing factors and many people do not share the same reality. Lei Erh though would say to us 'rid oneself of all shackles of the body and the mind'. In true liberation enlightenment will dawn. But first one must spend time freeing the body and the mind; this may take discipline and may take rules and limits, but the end is to free oneself where there are no rules only those that the Dao has given us. Part of being enlightened is to have true understanding and compassion; one cannot have either without real experience. To limit is to restrict ones understanding. I don't mean like well if I shot myself in the head I need to understand this, because that would be idiotic.

Trying to be 'at one' with the things that are going on in ones life one can apply the rule of Dao, but then this is universal rules and interconnections. Making limits also limit experience which can limit ones understanding. The rules of nature are simple and interconnected; if there are going to be rules then they are the ones that we may seek. But what we should have in mind, is an open mind and an open heart, these allow us to have greater understanding of others and ourselves. If we set limits to our mind and our hearts so we are not likened to the Dao. It's rather simple really. A Daoist is not a robed person practicing Kung FU or meditation, a Daoist is someone who simply is, who approaches life with an ever increasing understanding of their own life and other lives and forces that influence those lives; therefore an open mind and an open heart are the key to being a Daoist. It is so easy to get caught up with 'teachings', but part of the teachings if not all is to free ones self from these limits.

My thoughts on this are; to be open minded and open hearted. Remember there are no rules, the bending of the tree, the softness of the female and of water. A Daoist dwells in places common folk despise, treats all things equally and holds onto no firm idea other than the Dao.

Further, I will give you an example of the tricks that I do with my power for your education. Firstly though the drawing of 'power commands' (amulets and the like) is rarely witnessed by western people and is a rare art. The Daoist cannon contains many standard power commands that one can copy but without power are simply useless. In the video you see me beg the spirit master to half posses me and draw the power commands. This is rare footage of a rare art, most shamans will not allow people to film them while possessed or semi possessed doing this. About twenty five years ago I knew a Jehovah Witness family. The wife of the family had a very swollen thyroid. She had this condition for many years and despite treatment it would not recede. I said to this lady if she wanted to I could help her. She agreed, so I gave the command to my power, released it to her thyroid. Over three days I did this, and on the last day her thyroid had been reduced in size by 2/3. Unfortunately she was moving, so I never got to finish the healing. So this is how I use the power I have been given and cultivated through my Masters neigong. I have never tried to use this power to do anything else other than to help others. No tricks; I'm not interested in self centered, look I'm wonderful tricks, I'm interested in power not for the self but for the benefit of others.

Your eyes lack education, neigong is the practice that leads to the power, I can see JC has power that's because I have the same experience, but we may have come to that power in a different way. It takes power to draw the 'command power' Fa fu' it takes power to draw the 'fa shui' 'power water, these are traditional ways of transferring power with a command that can be used to do healing and many sorts of things, this is a traditional Daoist art that has been practiced for thousands of years.

I've actually been training in my Masters nei gong for over thirty years. If you looked at my video of me begging the Immortal master to come and draw the fa fu, fa shui, you will see the Master using my power when he extends it into the Holy water, you will see with educated eyes that I am extending my power like JC did in his video of setting the paper alight. I have firmly stated I don't do tricks.

I was under the impression that the forum that you help run was a NEI GONG forum, or is this just a thinly disguised web to entrap people into your way of thinking of western style mo pai? I was banned from your forum and really if you were all fair, you should have banned all of yourselves equally, (I'm sure the best people are banned instantly from your site as soon as they properly question mopai) because I asked the wrong questions which revealed a hole in your practice and the fact that the reality is that all of you are going no where fast. Many people on this forum have revealed to you and others that there are deep missing bits and inconsistencies that make people very skeptical about what you are saying and about what you are doing. You must see this and if I was trolling then you have been trolling big time on the Dao Bums for a long time. You and your gang have been causing disruption on this site for months, that's why they all end up in the pit and members being banned. If disruption caused me to be banned after defending myself, because I simply asked questions that you didn't want to hear and then you all laid into me with personal comments, including my sanity etc. insulting my teachers, do you seriously expect me to take that lying down? No I am very loyal to my real teachers and the things they have taught me.

But of course Ken you are quite guilty of being a complete bully, even if only on the written page. My short time on the neigong forum showed up all of your members true colours on that site. MPG decided he didn't like what I had said and group thuggery followed with gibes and insults flying from every direction. Of course Ken you got away with it on there but here.....instant ban, so don't go playing the innocent that you are so wonderful and don't dish out a load of dirt, because you have and will do given the chance. I went on the neigong site to ask a genuine question about lineage and I just got a load of abuse. Personally I feel we've had enough of Mopai and a lot of time wasted on what has amounted to very little expose of technique and practices other than what I would call very basic neigong beginner level stuff talked about. It has become extremely boring seeing people argue over whether John Chang is genuine, whether he taught anybody and whether anyone really knows anything. There are so many more interesting things to discuss on a Daoist forum IMO, it just takes the members to bring them up. I personally look forward to threads about genuine teachings that can be accessed, one of the reasons why I am here, for I feel I am doing my best to give that even if it is only on a typed message.

Dao or a way has been known by the ancient Chinese long before LZ time. We must remember that it was the ancient shamans and hermits that first began to understand the way. Then it was called the 'spirit way' for knowledge came via this path. eventually when the Chinese took to symbols, a symbol was developed that consisted of the head of a shaman and a foot. Which we now understand to mean 'the way'. Any translation from ancient Chinese texts that are attributed to being from LZ is really a waste of time to translate. In 1986 LZ came to me one day when I was begging the three Immortals for the fa fu, fa shui and he said to me that he was willing to teach me his true teachings. So what I have given is the nearest translation in English to what he originally wrote, you won't find any better as it has come from the horses mouth so to speak. So lines of my transmission are the same in other translations, for he said to me that there was not a better way to say it. Some of my verses he told to me are completely different to any others and have a different meaning.

MS explorer

I have used the quote button on your reply and nothing!

I seem to be able to log out sometimes but can never quote anyone in my responses, any ideas?

To answer you Dawei (I don't know why in my answers I can't paste your question/ I used to be able) They are.