MooNiNite

21 minutes ago, sean said:

 

I am now forced to picture you wearing a diaper at all times.

 

Racism, in the way that materially matters, is not some structurally advantaged white guy in a country that can strangle and shoot black men on actual camera with inpunity, getting his feelings hurt by having this reality pointed out to him on the internet, you inconceivable dipshit.

 

Also, didn't I ask you to leave?

 

Sean

 

You singled out people on the forum who are white. 

39 minutes ago, sean said:

 

The answer is in my original post. Because I believe spirituality divorced from "just politics" is a dead-end. And because I founded this forum and want to facilitate conversations I feel are nourishing and inclusive to people at every level of society, not just privileged, oblivious white dudes who are unphased by bigotry only because it doesn't materially impact their own lives.

 

Sean

 

This is racism. And now you are in denial. 

5 minutes ago, sean said:

 

The answer is in my original post. Because I believe spirituality divorced from "just politics" is a dead-end. And because I founded this forum and want to facilitate conversations I feel are nourishing and inclusive to people at every level of society, not just privileged, oblivious white dudes who are unphased by bigotry only because it doesn't materially impact their own lives.

Sean

 

Racism. Actually the first example of true racism in this thread. 

And who did it. 

4 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

Your statement is a misdirection.

 

There is no question that they are technologically advanced. But that’s not answering the point about the economic unfairness and lack of regulation.

 

Try again.

Well, I guess im just sorry you believe supporting the left will help you regulate the megalith companies. Funny how the companies you mentioned are pro-left. lol. 

25 minutes ago, Earl Grey said:

 

 

Under the current market's hyper capitalism, let's look at Silicon Valley. Unregulated and unscrutinized until recently, a huge monopoly that had a business model with Amazon, Facebook, and others buying other companies to eliminate competition and free choice. Does this really sound like an acceptable situation without some modicum of regulation?

 

If even a little regulation is socialist, then unfortunately, I'm all for it because it harms people, especially those who have become slaves to the gig economy, where firms such as PostMates garnish tips and pay far less than they are supposedly promised. 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/21/nyregion/doordash-ubereats-food-app-delivery-bike.html

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/07/21/reader-center/insider-reporter-food-deliveryman.html?action=click&module=RelatedLinks&pgtype=Article

Amazon, Facebook, some of the most technologically advanced companies in the world. Google. Some people actually appreciate these companies and what they do. Want to do something new? Now is better than ever to be an internet entrepreneur. Many of these mega companies lean left and support socialism, because they are the ones who will win the government contracts, so you're not actually going against them. Obama in 2012 passed the Citizens United bill, do you know what that does?

What about government run programs? I hope you see the inefficiency and waste. Does that factor into your assessment? We have Nasa vs Space X and Blue Origin. How about the F-35 program (over 1 trillion for a plane comparable to the euro fighter)?

You think the gig economy is evil? Being able to work whenever you want? Some people see that as an innovation. Lastly, no one is forced to work gig jobs, many people actually PREFER it. It also has huge tax benefits as everything is a write off. 

You know Texas had their own public ride sharing company .. do you know how that worked out?

10 hours ago, Jeff said:

Pretty much all spiritual traditions ask you to move beyond such views that you are implying of good and bad.  But, you did not respond to the point of my post, additionally you only copied a small part of my post to create a misleading view (seemly imply that I am somehow racist) of my point/position.

 

My point was about open spiritual discussions, obviously there should be a non-racist policy with posts (and I believe that has always been the case with the moderating team). Why not simply stop the political stuff and move the focus back to spiritual discussions (without a voting litmus test).  Each post (if somehow racist) can be dealt with through moderation.

 

What are you attempting to stop?

Well apparently the OP thinks if one is right wing then they represent pure evil. Low taxes, personal freedom without being tied to the government programs, national borders, free market capitalism, democracy. The idea that a person needs to get a job and be a good person in order to make an honest wage. The idea that millions of small businesses thrive and innovate with low taxes better than a single government ruling entity.  Apparently if one supports those things then they support evil and are supposed to leave. 

His major arguments seem to be:

We imprison illegal immigrants that cross the border illegally. And that's somehow also racist. Yet, we have been doing this way before Trump and multiple other countries around the world have borders and detain people, so its not unique nor something to point at Trump for. (Wonder if Obama detained people? Were most of them Hispanic?)

The other one is Trump is a racist. Why? Because he banned Muslim countries that have high risks of terrorism? Yet, Trump has many supporters and close friends of many races. So that's obviously a projection.

The other seems to be Trump is bad for the environment. Yet, more companies than ever in the USA are environmentally conscious and electric car industries are thriving and growing at a fast pace. Trump's lower taxes have actually caused millions of companies to innovate independently. Excel power is set to be over 50% powered by renewable energy by 2026. And 100% by 2050. And they are innovating at an unprecedented rate that wouldn't be possible if they were taxed to the ground.

 https://www.xcelenergy.com/energy_portfolio/renewable_energy

Certainly the government cant innovate at the same pace. When comparing a government electric car company to Tesla... just look at how much is spent on NASA vs SpaceX  or Blue Origin (Space programs by independent companies) to produce similar results. 

Trump just passed the 9/11 compensation bill for the first respondents at 9/11. These people were exposed to cancerous chemicals saving lives and just now 18 years later the government is supporting them with their health care. Obviously pure evil.

11 hours ago, dawei said:

 

I can't debate the realm of countries as x, y, or z... but this topic caught my eye the other day:

 

Danish PM in US: Denmark is not socialist  

 

SWEDISH EX-PRIME MINISTER REBUKES BERNIE: SOCIALISM ONLY DESTROYS

 

Maybe the subtlety is their socialized medicine but not really saying they are socialist countries.

 

I would agree the military mentality is problematic.  Several countries want to maintain a global eye and presence.  Maybe the Nordic are surrounded by better neighbors. 

Its basic economics why socialism doesnt work. Everyone is different. And companies need competition to prevent them from taking advantage of people. 

7 hours ago, sean said:

• Racism
• Sexism

• Ableism

• Misogyny
• Homophobia
• Transphobia
• Fascism (e.g. Neo-Nazism, white-nationalism, ultranationalism, etc)
• Rape and sexual assault apologia
• Police brutality apologia
• Xenophobia, anti-immigrant rhetoric
• Climate change denial

This list is not right vs left. You're being fed a narrative. 

12 hours ago, sean said:

A: It's OK and very fun to say and do racist things.

B: It's not OK and in fact wrong to speak and behave racistly.

It's a fallacy to say right wingers are racist and left wingers arn't. 

Keep taking the racist bait.

51 minutes ago, MildMouse23 said:

When debating with these idiots about how socialism cannot work.

 

I point out how the Nordic countries which have socialized medicine and healthcare have the highest standard of living, and a well educated and healthy populace. 

 

When you don't spend more than Russia, China and the next top 30 countries combined on the military you can afford to educate and provide healthcare for your citizens. 

 

https://www.weforum.org/agenda/2016/07/these-countries-have-the-highest-quality-of-life

 

 

You're clearly not examining the extent of communism. A country that just has a socialist healthcare structure is much different than a full blown communist economy.

7 hours ago, Zork said:

Trump is the tip of the Iceberg. Populism is the real problem both in the US and in Europe.

That's what we call sarcasm young lad. 

It's pretty intolerable when people discuss politics in the Off Grid section of the forum (designed for political discourse) and Hun Dun (designed for pointless bickering). It wastes too much server space in the end and raises forum costs and drains conversation from spiritual topics. 

Of course, Trump ("hewhomustnotbenamed") is the source of all problems so it only makes sense to ban him from the forum.

Suppression of belief systems is much more healthy than discussion and reasoning because those things could illuminate people to a conclusion that Trump isn't "IT" and that is unacceptable and too complicated to palate.

Even though in the Dao no belief system is perfect and no ideology is concrete, suppression of some ideas over others and segregation of people based on political and economic ideologies seems to provide a temporary warm and safe feeling to the one-sided members the Dao forum: particularly the ones who are damaged from the political tides and outcomes in the US.

1 hour ago, Zork said:

I am not far right by any stretch. And what Nazis did for the working class is fact not fiction. Plus they were called the "third way" because they espoused neither capitalism nor communism.

I told you before that right and left aren't the same across the globe.

Just in case you didn't understand the premises of this thread. 

He clearly stated this thread was for one-sided thinking and not for any meaningful debate. So if you dont align with one sided "Socialism is Perfect" thinking then you are clearly stupid and don't have any real world knowledge or historical insight. Please dont mention economics here. Of course implementations in China (mass starvation 15-30 million), Russia (mass starvation), and Venezuela (starvation/currency degradation)  have no actual relationship with real socialism and should be ignored. Trump is to be regarded as mentally ill and his widespread positive economic boons under his leadership are "continuations" and are hurting people not helping people.

Of course, the USA becoming more environmentally sustainable under Trump than it was previously is unthinkable because capitalism could never evolve naturally without government having to direct it and impede it. Lao Tzu's ideas about allowing human's innate good nature to flourish is to be ignored because good nature must be forced into direction by government.

5 hours ago, Zork said:

Fascism isn't right wing despite what many claim or where they categorise it.

 

Alt Left + Alt Right = Nazi

Left provides the radical socialism where right provides the radical nationalism

So I have been informed that Citizens United that was passed in 2012 is the source of all evil.

I was informed that it allows corporations to pay congress peoples unlimited monies and they dont have to disclose it.

hmmmmm

13 hours ago, Lost in Translation said:

 

That's nothing new. PragerU sued Google last year over the same issue. Congress is holding hearings on this very subject.

 

 

It just seems like such a blatent political move by Google

On 7/26/2019 at 7:24 PM, Nungali said:

Lao left 

Lao would be left, you would think, but only from a love everyone point of view. If you really get down to it he is a libertarian freedom loving people lover. Left is big government and Lao is all about personal freedom.

One of the more important distinctions with Lao Tzu is people's good will.

The left believes good will should be forced upon people through the power of the government: homeless shelters, food stamps, universal health care, heath care for immigrants.

Whereas Lao Tzu believed there was nothing to force and that people's true nature was giving. So by keeping taxes low and less government, people's innate giving would be able to flourish naturally.

Lao Tzu

Laozi (Lao Tzu) was a natural mystic, an elusive free spirit who saw humanity & nature together as part of the Way. He believed those who understand their innate connection with the whole would never act out of narrow self-interest.

"

People starve.

The rulers consume too much with their taxes.

That is why people starve.

People are hard to govern.

The rulers interfere with too much.

That is why people are hard to govern."

-Lao Tzu

YouTube now has PregorU on their Restricted List. A very academic-based conservative platform. 

This means many PregorU videos are censored. This is clearly a political move and another example how Google is politically biased. If you watch PregorU you will see they are purely academic and have no reason to be restricted.

.

20 hours ago, joeblast said:

I dont want to get all up in Sean's thread anymore than I already have, but its just wild to see all those guys view everything that's going on as some insane conspiracy theory, when just about all of it, all the information, is right there to go look at.  It doesnt seem that any of them are looking at any of it, but whatever media they are consuming appears to be giving them distress.  I actually feel kinda bad about that. 

I wonder if these leftists can ever get past the fact that communism fails at every turn. 

It doesn't even economically make sense, nor promote personal growth, which seems to be a center point of life.

I think they will be forever wanting communism but then have to continually face to reality that it doesn't work and they cant just live in their safety net. It doesnt promote innovation either, so even if it did work for a short time they would be at a disadvantage towards the rest of the world. 

It's also interesting to me how they all praise Obama, but never recognize that black unemployment doubled under Obama and halved under trump, not to mention all of the other positive economic indicators under Trump.

They seem to ignore what creates a healthy society where people have jobs and arn't starving to death and push for forced "values." 

6 hours ago, gendao said:

MAGA?  That would actually require taking the Path of Life again like before the arrival of Christian colonialism..

Because of course only Christian colonialism could move humanity into the industrial era. 

Those pure harmonious native people would never figure out or move forward with technology, because of their love of nature huh? 

After all, only white people and Christians don't innately follow the "Path of Life". Lets ignore every single non-christian country on earth in the doing most of the polluting in today's world.

7 hours ago, Earl Grey said:

 

Mozi, believe it or not, has some views that sound like proto-communism as one of my academic friends in Korea jokingly describes him. Not the fun kind, mind you, but the eyebrow-rasing kind. 

Any examples? 

6 hours ago, dawei said:

 

 

I would therefore say I have no idea what "left" and "right" means.  

Left means you have no name, no identity.

Right means you have identity and the choices that come with it.

Its ego vs no-ego. Freedom of choice and identity vs collective giving and the destruction of self.

I personally don't think either is a way of finding balance, so you need both.

What about historical Daoist figures? Do any of them align left?

I think Lao Tzu is pretty much out of the question, because many of his quotes are anti-government/taxes, but what about Confucius? Or any other major figures?

mushrooms are basically legal in Colorado. so yal are like lightyears behind.

4 hours ago, Pilgrim said:

All I have to say to this is pay for your own fucking education just like I did no one gave me handouts and to do so is a mistake.

I don't think a lot of people are aware that education can be tax deducted if it applies to a small business you own.

It is a definitely cumbersome, but a person who works a regular job can create a small business related to the education they want to receive and deduct their education related expenses. 

1 hour ago, Trunk said:

All you have to do to “mercilessly batter” Trump is to just show what he says and does.  The worst insults to him are his own words and actions.  And so ...

Video recording (or any other reliable record of events) is his basic nemesis.

... and he’s a con man and feeble minded chumps/devotees are many, so all he has to do is chant “fake news” and the willfully blind follow along.

Trump doesn't speak in the most compassionate manner, but his policies make more sense than his opponents who are preaching naive socialist measures. 

Lets look at what his democrat opponents are offering: Higher taxes, we prefer people who are illegally here over people who come here legally, we prefer both of those groups over people native born, and war with Russia. 

This is why Trump will most likely be reelected. It's also why democratic nominee Hickenlooper says in the democratic debates that the democrats need to change their stances or they have no chance vs Trump 2020.