raimonio

Hi! I talked with a psychology major about Stillness-movement. I was surprised when he said that the western psychotherapeutic community has exercises that seem similar. He said that it is used for treating patients with different kind of psychological traumas. He said that animals in nature do some kind of S-M everytime after a traumatic experience. Its funny that the western psychologists have stumbled across a phenomena that seems very similar to S-M. Ofcourse it is different, in S-M the energies make the movements and theres alot more to it. Like sometimes I end up doing Qi Gong like movements or massaging a chakra, also its hard to imagine anyone in therapy getting their microcosmic orbit going, but I bet these two techniques share some similarities still. Or maybe this is just too much linear thinking! I just wanted to share this info with everyone, because I found it intriguing

Hi I know this has been discussed many times and I'm not sure if these links have already been posted (tried searching found nothing) but the guy seems to have been done some serious research in the subject which feels like a fresh breeze after all the new age mumbo jumbo going around So please, enjoy http://bibhudev.blogspot.fi/2012/07/end-of-kali-yuga-in-2025-unraveling.html?m=1 http://bibhudev.blogspot.fi/2011/05/are-edgar-cayce-prophecies-coming-true.html?m=1

You seem to be right on the earthquakes, what about other stuff? http://m.accuweather.com/en/weather-blogs/climatechange/steady-increase-in-climate-rel/19974069 Dunno about you, but the weather conditions where I live have started to become rather ridiculous during the past years, for example now it is supposed to be summer, but the last month was spent using the kind of clothes you wear in the fall.. I am only 30 years old, so maybe there was this kind of stuff before I was born.. Now ofcourse it would be reasonable to blame the pollution for climate change but it is just as reasonable to think that there might be another cause, I would just as much speak for climate change due to pollution, but I am just saying.. I found the article better than most new age stuff, atleast the guy had references The daoist ancients said that men started becoming wicked, all great mystic traditions speak of a golden age and natural cataclysms.. in the beginning of bible people talk to god etc, but then it gets further away until he doesnt really speak at all and people have trouble contacting him.. in the gnostic texts they say that god or jesus or something cant remember what decided to make magic etc harder because people were too selfish (cant remember how it went exactly but something like this), some daoist masters have said that way before in time people were taught magic, now they are taught inner alchemy first because they are so selfish its not a good plan to give them powers anymore? In egypt after the collapse of cultures due to natural disasters the next were more incompetent in doing the stuff the previous guys had done etc.. Countless of different traditions are talking about a similar kind of idea of different ages.. it just happens to be that during the time this imagenary kali yuga age of ours is supposed to end stuff is happening, science, raise in IQ, climate change etc etc.. I dont firmly believe in any of this but it does pick my interest.. with all the variables at hand I feel it is atleast reasonable to play with the idea, but if others here think that it is compeletely impossible that the yugas could exist and every 3000 years there would be cataclysmic events coupled with a change in our nature then let us sink this thread and forget about it

Same kind of stuff has been happening for me while doing spontaneus movements. So far I have done it mainly sitting down, sometimes standing, but have had only a few occasions where I actually had the impulse to stand up while sitting. For the past few weeks this has happened every time. It sometimes feels as if someone opened a firemans hose in my perinerum or if I am standing that theres a pillar surging trough my feet, of massive energy. I think it is a sign that the energy channels and points in your lower body are opening. Its interesting it happened to you on its own The power it generates, the feeling of becoming grounded and strong, confident etc. Seems to have a big effect on how you experience your conciousness and mind. Everything becomes more stable and clear.

Since the beginning, when doing spontaneous movements in my practice, I have had spiraling movements and still do Very rarely do I get any other movement

When there is a media-mess it becomes increasingly hard to determine what is really going on I personally am interested in the whole picture, not so much, whether there is a bosnian scammer or not Gonna check this Gobleki stuff out aswell But guys, take it easy, I think we are all on the same boat here anyways. We are all interested in the idea that the recorded history is actually not the real history, that there has been some epic stuff going on way before the academic mainstream has dared to envision it. I have lost my appetite with science, I mean when you look at any of the beliefs that we had only 20 years ago in the realm of science, most of it has already been proven wrong, the longer you go back the more that happens. Why shouldn't it happen again when we go instead forward? It is retarded to take science as given truth, it is nothing but an educated guess based on the current evidence, which is going to change anytime and go to any possible direction from there. Science at best can be seen as a process, but for some reason even scientists themselves have trouble remembering that and staying "objective". For some reason they just don't take into account that whatever revelation they may find, will in 100 years be the work of a retard.

I do 40-70minutes of practice every day. I'm also interested in hearing about others, mainly whether there is any guy who is doing hardcore practice like the guys back in the day

Interesting stuff. Isn't Daoism also by some scholars depicted as atleast a 10 000 years old system and in theory it could be how-ever old. In Magical Egypt documentary series theres also info that supports these kinds of beliefs. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tshlYmX8OkI

When you think about the history of Daoism in general and all the schools of inner alchemy, it is a history of hermits and secret societies. Ofcourse some of it has come out and so there are all kinds of text books etc. and they have all been collected. But I think it would be unrealistic to assume that some type of system or practice couldn't have gone unnoticed. When you look at stillness-movement, it also feels quite revolutionary compared to all the mainstream stuff. General Sanders was one, then there is the catholic church and every single institution on this planet, that does have its secrets. Usually the greater the secret the more secret it is. If there was a system that could do everything faster and easier and the main concern with the secret holders was that people were not ready for such powers, then it is only natural they woulnd't show it. For some reason they have started coming out of their closets though, maybe because of the cultural revolution, or maybe there has been some kind of a shift in the nature of our time. Just look at the attitudes of ancient Daoist masters. The first of them that we hear about (Yellow emperor) was all for politics and being among the people. Lao Zi (a government official?) was still pretty much geared torwards making the political system work, trough Daoist principles. Then the guys that came after that were like "The men have become too wretched, let us head for the mountains and never speak again". Now they are back. For whatever reason that may be. The problem is that all the scam artists have also come out of the bushes. Another problem is that every master I've ever heard talking has said their system is the fastest, strongest and most efficient, even if they were not scam artists. So it all comes down to testing it yourself. I have heard of atleast 2-3 masters of legimate schools say that there are different types of schools and some are "lower level" than others. One aspect I have seen is that all the high level stuff seems to be dealing with transmissions or maybe in this case with a FFS. But anyway there are ways of "bypassing" the struggles of the beginning. If there is energy, and your conciousness can mold it and basicly do whatever it wants to do with it, why couldn't a great master use it to make everything easier for the beginner guy? If you were a millionaire, ofcourse you could just give your money away, that would make someone else rich. All these Qi Gongs and Alchemic stuff work in the way that you get no help from anyone. You stand for a decade in a posture generating the energy from scrach. I must admit I haven't read much of the "classical alchemic texts". I only read DDJ, Bruce Frantzis, Ewa Wong(might remember the name wrong lol) and Thomas Clearys "Vitality, Energy and Spirit". In the latter there are takes from classical texts and in many of them it goes something like this "There was a guy, then a master came, light up the guys Dan Tien, the guy went home and retained his awareness without thinking or anything, 6 months later he achieved immortality". Does this sounds like that stuff people are doing? To me that sounds quite easy, although it is hard to remain aware in todays society, but still. In that book basicly every story goes in the lines of master coming out of the bushes, doing a magic trick in 10minutes then getting the hell out of there, the student never seeing the guy again and thats it. Immortality after few months. GG. To me that sounds like there is something fundamentally wrong with the stuff we are taught. Why don't the teachers just light up the Dan Tien and send the guy home? Why are the Gnostics saying that Jesus imparted them with the "real teachings", that he actually lived another 13 years after crucifiction and taught them? Why are the Tibetan Buddhists saying that the wheel was turned a third time? It is quite clear that there are atleast indications of the existence of "higher level" schools, even in the classical texts right under our noses. However, this does not mean that XYP is that school, or stillness-movement is that school, or any school we have ever heard of is that school. But for the sake of the argument, I must conclude that the existence of such a school is atleast possible and a realistic assumption. And based on that, we cannot judge a school by its claims, but only by its results. And therefor XYP CAN be that school, and Stillness-Movement CAN be that school, or any other school CAN be that school. We just have to test whether it is true. Maybe after a few years zerostao will come back to us and go "guys, the system sucked major, I developed severe mental problems and the FFS killed my cat" who knows. Or maybe he will be a guy who becomes a master and starts teaching.

It is nice to hear about these experiences, I don't think you are crazy. It's more like, if a spiritual world exists, then its gonna be some crazy stuff. So it isn't about whether there is crazy stuff or not, it's just whether you believe in a spiritual world in the first place. I have had enough experiences that I am fairly certain it does There was some guy on a thread who mentioned this book "The Siren Calling of the Hungry Ghosts" or something like that.. I listened to a podcast where they summed it up. Man that was some scary stuff. I realized that I have also had those experiences when having sleep paralysis, like there were these evil entities doing some sick stuff, it was so horrible. I used to be all for getting the experience of leaving your body but it is truly not a wise plan, unless you have that aura or have done some serious spiritual practice before Yea I also started wondering whether it could be possible to combine Hou Tian and Xian Tian and then make them meet in the middle or something like that. Cool stuff Thank you

Cool man

Didn't have the patience to read the whole thread over, just here to give my 2 cents. I used to have massive negative reactions from meditation and I was able to transform all that by changing my diet. I had/have candida syndrome, IBS, cronic fatique syndrome etc. I suggest a very tight low-carb diet with the right herbs for the disease and to anyone with any problems, but especially if your having digestive issues. Another option that has worked wonders for some is a fruitarian diet. It also makes a big difference which practice you are doing. But I think that if your diet is not proper then its kind of counter-productive to try to cure the situation with meditation. But ofcourse the right meditation can help and in best cases take care of the whole issue. The bottom line with all nutrition now days is to eat natural organic stuff. The crap that people stuff themselves with is pretty much poison, even all the "normal" stuff like pesticised + genemanipulated grains. Imho there is every now and then the guy, who has these bat-shit-crazy-like reactions from meditation that should not be there. I think if you really feel that this shit should not be happening then you are propably right. It is not wise to give advice like "you are just doing it wrong". There is a clear difference with crazy shit and "normal adverse effects". Ofcourse it might not feel good if you have to face something about yourself that you dont like trough meditation etc. but atleast in my experience people know when this is the case. I mean just yesterday I had a huge emotional meltdown during my practice, but it was clearly connected with my past etc. But if you compare that to the insane anxiety that came from out of nowhere after meditation back when my body was still being poisoned by candy and junk food, its just a different game alltogether. Especially nowdays when there are all kinds of weird diseases, its really impossible to say whether someone is delusional and making everything up. I would always take the stand that what your intuition is telling you is prolly true. I mean the western medical field has not been able to find a reason for most of the modern diseases. All the tests I've ever had were all normal, yet I had to go true unbearable sufferings for years. Then cured a big portion of it in 2months by changind diet.

I for one find this system very interesting and would like to hear more discussion about it. It might however be, that since it is so different, people don't really know what to say There are a few things I don't understand myself. So first you have shen qi and jing, then you turn qi into shen and there is left only shen and jing, then jing into shen and then there is only shen? Also about the FFS, is it a spirit or an immortal or is it some part of you? I think it was established that it isn't a god or a deity. When he guides you do you do movements or is it also meditation in stillness, does he give you energy or transmissions or just guide your practice? What if you wanted to practice for 10hours every day, would this entity have the time for you? Does he always come for you when you start practicing? It is interesting to hear that there could be other methods for immortality, not just the fire or water. Or Hou Tian. When you start thinking about it that there are hundreds of different legimate lineages, where they have been researching this issue for thousands of years, it makes sense that there would be many kinds of passage ways to the goal. In my practice everything happens on its own, which is also neat Hope you guys have a nice journey with this stuff

I think the main point is to just find a way to pound your body, doesn't have to be someone trying to murder you necessarily. Simply being thrown into the mat might be enough. I mean many of the jiujitsu/judo/wrestling people are pretty firm despite the fact they are not being pounded by fists. The kung fu guys who don't spar always make me wonder, because they look very wimpy, like they would be thrown away by wind and if they choose to spar it looks akward and retarded, like they are afraid of being hit (not in a cool way like a boxer dodging the punches without fear and doing it professionally). There are some kung fu sparring stuff though, that seems legimate so don't get me wrong Yea that is true if you wish to turn pro. I think on amateur level it is still fairly harmless, unless there is an accident. Also if you start with other newbies the strikes and kicks are so weak that the level of pounding builds up nicely. The only remnant in that department I have are broken wrists for learning the proper way to cover them too late, I never went to a basic course, I just jumped in with a few other guys Sparring in general with any striking art (except wimpy-method doing some retarded shit) is the best method, but I guess doing anything that "damages" your body without destroying it or doing real damage will do. I mean look at the football guys, or hockey players, they all have strong structure and can take a hit because that is what their sport is largely about. I remember this one guy, who had taken steroids and was the size of a monster, but who apparently had never toughened his body outside the gym or been in physical contact with anything. He was like 3 times as big as me and I was like damn, now I'm gonna get my arse handed to me. He was a newbie in thai boxing but because of his size, I though it would be a no contest. To my surprise I could throw this guy around like a rag doll in clinch, it felt just like wrestling with a girl or something. He was even shaking and shit like that, out of fear. He had never been in that kind of a situation. It was ridiculous, but it taught me that you really need to condition your body and mind, or no amount of muscles and solo-training will help you when shit starts getting down If you want power behind your own just do endless repetition of hitting single hits in a bag with full power, I think that is a very good method. Your speed might suffer, but you can train that seperately. The problem will still be whether you can hit the target with these punches. So sparring must again be emphasized. Ofcourse you cant train power with sparring per se, because it would be mad. But no amount of power will help you if you cannot utilize it. Sparring above all else is the real deal. Fighting can be best learned via fighting, not by doing some random stuff around the corner. Even if you were carrying the toughest of all Iron Shirts, if that was all you had going for you I think you would find yourself doing akward movements, shivering in fear and just generally being like "Crampsies, what am I supposed to do now? The perfectly honed dead-movements that I drilled for 3 years are not working" and then you will remember CRAMPSIES, what missed from my practice, was WU WEI. Then you remember that you are infact a daoist, who has drilled daoism in the arse for three years by doing dead shit, that wasn't spontaneous. And when you are awaken from coma, because the highly esteemed spirits (that you had connected with previously during your meditation) came to your aid, there will be only two words in your head. WU WEI & raimonio. And then, my son, you will have learned the two magic words to fighting. Iron Shirt is cool don't get me wrong, just like all the other conditioning methods. No problemo there. No sir.

Condolances. Don't know much of the guy but the little I know makes him out to be a man who went trough great obstacles to do what he was doing..

When I was younger I did thai boxing, boxing.. etc.. and for me sparring and doing alot of punching bag work did those things. Once you have been kicked in the ass and punched in the face countless times, in a matter of few months to a year your body will adjust to it and then it is the same as someone pushing you lightly. This stays with you for the rest of your life. I haven't done any martial art for like 7 years and still I have that toughness. The greatest punch takers in the world are thai boxers, because their whole art is based on them facing each other, pounding away and not moving from the punches. Do that if you want to become capable of withstanding massive amounts of damage. It is also a very hardcore style of delivering that damage.

This is a very interesting topic. I have been thinking about this for a few years now. Maybe the masters are not revealing everything to the general public, because they know, that with the right information wrong people could do incredibly bad things. Think about evil witches or Kung Fu masters gone rogue. Although it seems that some of these sociopaths still get trough. It also brings the question of personal practice. I have come to the conclusion that no matter how high the feeling of love or realization, you should make some clear rules and regulations that you will never cross, just in case you some day happen to become a teacher. Like not having sex with students etc. The fact alone, that a sociopath can generate high levels of practice. Talking about the negatives of spiritual liberation or trying to view it in a realistic way taking into account all the data that has been culminating is something that feels like a taboo in the spiritual circles. There have been several cases of sexual abuse in the tibetan Buddhist lineages, I've heard about tremendeous politic drama in the zen-circles, in india there are also many cases like this just like it was pointed out, there have been evil kung fu guys and there are still many twisted qi gong "masters" that might have great powers despite their alignment. I think enlightenment, immortality and spiritual "realization" of all kinds should be put under hard scrutiny. Its not all what its made out to be Maybe there is horizontal and vertical progress. Horizontal being that you become stronger, more powerful and get supernatural capabilities. Vertical being becoming a better person, realizing the true nature of your existence. I mean many of the enlightened people, who have only let go of their egos don't necessarily have any powers. Immortality seems to go both ways But with this, it would be possible to become massive horizontally and still be a weeniy vertically.

Seen it. It is a very interesting documentary. You get a very nice picture of what it is to be a tibetan monk in a cave doing hardcore practice

Yea that is also very true. I have battled with several addictions and sugar cravings etc. and can say, that it is always a process, not something you do right away.. It takes a long time for your subconcious mind and body to become okay with a new plan and before that happens, the change seems more like torture And like you said, sometimes it is easier than other times and it is a good plan to take advantage of those moments

Lots of dietary threads around (2) I've been without any sugar for almost three years now and it has turned my life over, although it is also because of no grains and processed foods. I was one year with low carb, then one year with a fruitarian diet, now again one year on low carb. People think that fruits are equilevant to sugar but that is not true. The fructose that is used in processed foods sure, but when you eat a whole fruit its a different story. I can understand, that for a normal person, cutting sugars or any other thing is very hard. I mean if you are already healthy enough, why go trough the trouble? However, sometimes the eating of those sugars can have such a nasty effect on you, that you get to a point, where you have no other choice. That is what happened to me. I had candida, which was cured with low carb. Then I actually got a severe case of IBS because of eating so much meat and oils. Started on fruitarian diet. Healed my IBS, went back to low carb and realized it had been propably, because I had used so much spices and olive oil, which didnt work for me. At worst my IBS was at a level, where eating a single meal of meat would make my stomach have unbearable pain for an entire day. With candida my symptoms were mainly psychological. My candida symptoms included not being able to sleep for 8 years (more than 2-4 hours a night), unbearable panic attacks and an anxiety that was always there, depression, mood swings that didn't have any logical cause-effect relation with what was going on, a severe brain fog where my memory didn't work and I felt unreal at all times, like at the brink of a psychosis. I tried to treat myself trough psychotherapy and antidepressants, didn't do jack shit. Although I must admit that I had real psychological problems aswell, namely drug addiction etc. before all of this started. I thought that I was being punished for using drugs. I mean I was really willing to do everything, I quit drugs, went back to school, started doing sports etc. but all there was, was pure extreme pain. In the end all of the 8 years worth of suffering went away in 2 months after starting low carb diet with anticandida herbs. The remaining psychological problems and cronic fatique I am still fighting with today, but 70% of that has gone away trough practice of nei gong I have estimated, that within a few years I will be completely healed I encourage everyone to let go of sugars, processed foods and grains, the kind of happiness and health you can achieve is unheard of. You never get sick, you always have a stable mind and energy, your cognitive functions are enhanced, you feel good even if there is no reason for it, you got more energy than before etc etc.

Actually the research that has been done for example with fructose (the sugar found in fruits) has been with solely fructose, taken a part from the fruit. If you eat a whole fruit, all the other content of it will make the fructose work as well. It then comes with just the right amount of fiber etc. The ratios are perfect for the human body. Fruits are the best food for the digestive system, because they require no enzymes from the body to be genereted so that they can be processed. Everything in the fruit is absorbed directly into your system with no effort. On a fruitarian diet, your digestive system is almost fasting. But if you combine them with some other things, like processed food etc. then it can go bad. On a raw veggie diet, its all good. One theory is that fat makes carbs stagnate in the blood, but if you eat in a ratio of 80% carbs from fruit, 10% protein and 10% fat, then your fat levels are so low, that the carbs are used and burned instantly and there is no problem. There is also research that shows that such low levels of fat and protein do not hinder the human system. Sugar is a poison, but fructose when it comes with the whole fruit is a life saver. Fruits were meant for us, we have been eating them the longest time and in biggest quantities over any other thing found in the wilderness. Research shows, that meat is actually around 20% of the diet with most of the native tribes around the world. Hunting is like a sport for them, but gathering is what they live by. However I would personally try going normal raw first, with alot of peanuts for fat and protein, if it didn't work, then go whole fruitarian 80/10/10 and see whether it works. Its kind of like a last resort diet, because it is very restricting, most of the people cannot maintain it. And if you have no problems with eating meat, I would actually go low carb even before testing raw, where you eat alot of meat, oils and vegetables that have low carb rates, because I feel that it is the easiest to cope with After a lifetime of eating processed foods its a very drastic thing to go raw, I personally couldn't do it more than a year, but will try again later, when I have reached a higher state in spiritual practice

Oh okay didn't know it was possible, even in my most massive imaginations, thnx for clearing out I agree with pythagoreanfulllotus, wheat and grains are the number one cause of most of diseases. You are already well on your way with vegetarism and have done a great job in taking out sugars and processed foods. I have heard numerous people healing their problems, especially the kind you and me have, with a raw food diet. I have personally proved to myself that healing trough nutrition works. Low carb also works, but you seem to be gearing torward vegetables Those are basicly the only other "miracle" cures I have heard of ontop of insane amounts and qi gong or qi gong healing But even with them, it takes months if not years to fully recover. Your body re-creates itself every 2 years.. Check this out, propably the craziest recovery I've hard of, I mean this guy had every disease known to man: Here is her story and info: http://www.therawmonkey.com/my-journey/ All of these modern cronic diseases stem from the same source and it can all be healed via same means

What diet alterations have you made? I have been contemplating on this issue for a long time and have come to the conclusion that without the right diet, no amount of healing would cure you for good when dealing with these kinds of issues. Nutrition can in the worst cases be responsible for 99% of the problems. I personally had severe candida, severe IBS, leaky stomach, cronic fatique etc. and when I recall those times and try to imagine, whether energy healing would've done it for me, I come with an answer that it would seem very much impossible without the right diet. I still have slight cronic fatique, but don't have any symptoms of candida, IBS or leaky gut WHEN sticking to the diets that work for me. A cronic disease is like cutting yourself with a knife. Healing is like putting on stiches. Bad diet is like ripping them of and cutting the same wound again. When dealing with these kinds of cronic diseases, the starting point in curing them is nutrition. I have heard amazing stories of people being cured of cancer just by energy arts, but the digestive track issues are worse, because what you eat makes the problem. The only good thing about them is that they don't kill you. Its like the problem as a whole is not the symptoms or the walls of your digestive track alone. Nutrition is part of the problem, it cannot be seperated and no healer on this planet can prevent you from stabbing your stomach with a knife. Cronic diseases are more like AIDS than cancer, could you imagine anyone being cured from AIDS by energy healing? Michael Lomax himself has said, that cronic fatique syndrom, just as an example, is a grizzly. It cannot be solved easily. It has to be battled for a long time, with several different methods. The digestive track issues you are facing are of the same nature and I believe what ever other issue you may have, is a result of the stomach issues. After being able to become symptomless with nutrition alone qi gong, nei gong and healing combined can take you long ways. I would suggest you start testing on extremely strict diets of low carb and fruitarian. Those are the ones that seem to work for everyone, me included. It should be possible to become symptom free with diet alone. It takes time and effort, took me 2 years to be okay without cravings of normal food etc. but it is possible. And when I say strict low carb or fruitarian I mean loosing every single particle that has been made chemically, taking NO carbs in whatsoever, eating herbs on a daily basis, making no exceptions. Or going full time fruitarian and eating NOTHING but raw vegetables. Dont forget the HERBS that are meant for your issues. People don't know it, but even the slightest things matter in these cases. I myself tested low carb when I didn't know I had candida and it didn't do anything for me. It was only when I learned about candida and realized how strict it would have to be, that the changes started coming. Its like even if you add a minor piece of a sauce that has for example dairy in it (or some other substance that shouldn't be there) thats it, GAME OVER. This is how strict you must be, when testing with the diets. I am now at a point, where I can eat something that shouldn't be there even couple times a week with no problemo. But I can tell you, that in the beginning, it was one drop of something and it took me long time to get back on track. People don't realize how severe these conditions can be, and how merciless the situation is. I would propably suggest trying fruitarian diet first. But every person is an individual and the main point is to test different dietary methods until you find the one that works for you.

It is good to get a realistic view of the scene, teachings and practices, before deciding whether you wish to follow a teacher. There are all kinds of teachers out there and it is the students responsibility to assess the teacher. Reading alot of information and looking at different practices etc. makes you a better judge. Looking at the different practices and teachers I find it crucial to be extremely critical. There are people who simply go to a teacher and believe everything he says, but in most cases this is not a good idea. Also having more information makes it easier to find the kind of stuff that suits you. There are endless amounts of different paths and teachers. If you never did any research, but followed one teacher, you might never find out that there was always a better practice/philosophy/teaching for you. I think that the teachings generally are still very inbred, single minded and narrow. All the paths have developed seperately form each other and have a very strong idea of how things go. Only now, trough peoples struggles, are the paths being made more open. All these paths talk about being open and accepting everything etc. but when you go ask a teacher about another path he will without exception talk down the other path and judge it based on his information about his own path. We need information to flow and be spread so that we could one day start making a more realistic take on the spiritual world. The teachers we have are mostly from the old world, where things were seperated. We are the new generation and it is our duty to bring everything together. These other-excluding teachings simply do not make sense, when you become aware of all the other stuff that is out there.

Yea I think there are many immortals walking on this planet as living human beings and some of them teach even in the west. Chunyi Lin surely seems like one I think there is a great disparison between the Mo Pai like immortals and other immortals, atleast in the description. Maybe they are the same, but to me it sounds very different to start opening 72 "chakras/knots/whatever" than to turn jing into chi and chi into shen, come up with an immortal embryo and then let it merge with the cosmos. Also it sounds quite stupid that only the people who posses a golden aura could become immortals. Doesn't add up with all the other literature that talks about internal alchemy and immortality. Then theres the third question, which is between Buddhist enlightenment and immortality, because the Taoist masters who were also Buddhist masters say it is all the same. This is a very nice thought and it could be taken further by saying that all the great mystics of all religions are the same as immortal. Great shamans, saints, Sufis etc. From what I've read on these forums and from a few books, I have come to the conclusion that reaching Tao is pretty much the same as enlightenment and basicly anyone could do that with enough effort, right techniques and a teacher. But from that point on there is still a world to discover. So the deeper you go into Tao the more powerful as an immortal you will be. So at first it might only be that you are one with the Tao, but if you stay 10 years on a mountain and continue your practice, you'll eventually be able to manipulate matter at will. This is where Buddhism and Taoism differs, atleast if you are not talking about the Tibetan lineages.