Jeramiah Zeitigeist

I agree and why I don't really care to 'debate' such topics. Just give what info I know, experience, researched, practiced or studied and let others seek their own findings. I am not here to provide the scientific validation for something already validated through it's own historical development.

 

 

Yes, and this rightly points out the equation has two sides and each holds some responsibility. Both practitioners and patients need to change how they view it. Once a patient hears 'cancer', they are often self-sealing their coffin. It doesn't have to be that way.

Agreed. The patient must always be empowered. They have been part of the problem, now they must become part of the solution. No healer can ever 'heal'. All they can do is offer the tools, the energy, and create an environment on many levels, where the patient can heal themselves.

The practitioner needs to understand the real nature of illness, and then loose the fear. See the reality of the situation. Don't buy into the cancer myth. If the practitioner doesn't believe, how can he or she work effectively ?

But proof, when offered, is never enough ! Evidence is considered through past experience and future expectation, based on existing belief systems. Thats why I don't really care what people believe. I just continue on my merry way, getting results. Thats all that matters.

While I don't have the same depth of background, this is generally the message from those in the Medical Qigong oncology lineage.

All I can say is, I approach healing work with cancer in the same way that I approach it with other illnesses. And so far, after 18 years, I have seen many successes.

Sadly, I can provide many, many case studies, and they mean nothing. Positions are too deeply entrenched.

All that matters is, in many cases, I can achieve, with the help of the patient, the result they were looking for. So I have fulfilled my side of the equation, and everyone is happy.

I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. Those days are gone.

But I do think our approach to how we think about cancer needs to change. Its mythology is greater than the fact.

The link for PubMed was made and simply stated as "Evidence for Medical Qigong". Simply stated.

 

Then you lumped into that website into a requirement for cases of it curing cancer...

 

If you want to research specific cases of Qigong and Cancer, I pointed out that you need to focus your search to places which focus on Qigong and Cancer... Your going to need to look at more than The U.S. National Library of Medicine. I am not sure why this is so hard to understand.

 

Is it possible for Qigong to cure Cancer?

 

If your answer is NO, then how do you prove that position?

 

You can't simply play down every piece of evidence with an opinion alone.

Nice !

Like it !

I'm probably going to eternally regret entering into this debate on energy projection/Qigong and cancer, especially as it seems to be going around and around without resolution;

I want to suggest we are looking at this wrongly. Why the obsession with cancer ?

I'm a healer. Eighteen years, man and boy. I also practice various forms of Qigong. Energy work is my passion. My healing ability is natural, as my Great Grandfather was a famous healer too. But if pressed, I'd say that all I do is project energy, exactly as a Qigong healer would do.

I've healed over twenty thousand people in my time as a healer, and a good number of them had cancer.

Cancer is absolutely heal-able.

I see cancer as an external manifestation of energy. No different to any other illness. Its physical manifestation reflects the unexpressed emotional/physical or psychological history and patterns of the patient. You can argue that for as long as you like, but thats been my hands-on experience over 18 years.

A nice example, as an illustration of whats possible;

A man with highly aggressive prostate cancer. Rated 10/10 on the Gleeson scale. Aggressive and needing radical medical treatment, including removal of prostate. Patient was highly successful property developer, with a younger wife, so didn't want to lose his prostate. He elected to try my work.

Ten treatments later, there is no cancer in his body. Two scans, and then two biopsies confirm my treatment has worked. Two years later, he is still free of cancer. And a very happy man.

This thread perpetuates the myth that cancer is somehow special. That it is the holy grail. Thats rubbish. The only difference is that medical science has bought into the cancer myth, as have the general public. Its the enemy, the war on cancer, the big C........when in fact the patients perception of their illness and their desire/belief in their own ability to survive is at least as big a factor in their healing as any treatment they receive.

So I have dozens of those cases, and a good number of doctors, even consultants, here in England, who quietly send their cancer patients to me. Its all done quietly, without fuss, without drama, without publicity.

And of course, because of my success, I have survived attempted murder, assault, and a terrifying hate campaign, run by one women and a couple of her friends, none of whom have ever met me. Character assassination, death threats, threats to my family and friends, threats to patients if they dared speak up........the most terrible lies.....There is no crime she has not accused me of.......quite publicly and openly.

There are amazing people, including Qigong healers, doing amazing things with cancer. And the majority will not speak of it, for fear of suffering what I have suffered.

If the healer does the right thing at the right time, and the patient is open, the cancer will heal.

Here are my personal data during abdominal breathing at sitting position:

Systolic/diasystolic/Heart rate

114 72 77

114 64 73

106 70 75

108 70 72

105 65 73

099 72 78

116 66 78

126 64 78

104 68 72

110 63 80

110 71 81

093 66 72

108 62 76

104 66 70

115 67 76

 

These are consecutive readings.

So do you know what your resting heart rate is, while lying in bed ? Then we can see how much your abdominal breathing has raised your heart rate.

Don't be too distracted by instructions and don't be too quick to judge or dismiss them.

Just stand.

In your standing, see if you can feel a roundness to the back without any physical movement.

See if you can feel a hollowness to the chest without moving.

Feel the suspension of the bai hui and an openness (I like that word better than looseness) in the kua, etc...

 

In the beginning, we often exaggerate postures by trying to force our physical body to fit an image we have.

If we do this then the instructions can cause incorrect posture.

Instead, allow the instructions to guide you in subtle ways, from the inside out, from the energetic body moving outward to eventually being expressed in very subtle physical adjustments.

This takes a long time - weeks, months, years.

It requires a great deal of sensitivity and awareness.

Until you feel the energetic body and come to trust in it, you will feel uncertain.

Let that uncertainty foster a spirit of investigation and exploration - internally.

This only comes with patience and diligence.

The inner landscape is subtle and extensive.

It won't happen quickly, no matter how good your instruction.

Good luck!

Good advice !

Just stand. This process can take years. Its slow and subtle.

My standing practice has changed endlessly from the first year. So many subtle changes over the weeks, months and years.

Thats why I think Master Lam's book is so good. It teaches good, basic alignments. He doesn't presume to teach all the deeper. more powerful stuff, as its pointless until the subtle alignments have been created by long, steady practice.

After six months of daily ZZ practice, there is no way your alignments will all be correct. Just be patient.

Yeah he had me going for a while, I guess my troll sense is lacking at the moment

I thought he was the real Lao Tzu.

I'm really disappointed now !

@Jeremiah: thanx for the great answer!

 

I actually know that qigong is a different physical activity, I bought my heart rate monitor for my strength training and for kung fu - anyway good that you make it clear.

Still I was cursious to know what's happening during qiqong and if there is a kind of heart rate zone for qiqong.

 

I tried yesterday and I got a pulse rate between 90 and 100 doing qigong, is that make sense ?

Hi Buscon

It depends on whether we have the figures for your resting heart rate, and your maximum heart rate too ?

Resting heart rate is easy, just take it before you get out of bed.

Maximum is more difficult, as maximum heart rate is exercise specific. So my maximum heart rate in cycling is different to my maximum in running or in martial arts.

Do you know what your maximum is ?

Then we can work out percentages, and get an idea of which systems your body is activating, ie, fat burning zone etc. Although those zones commonly used are all relative and not strictly accurate anyway.

Which Qigong are you doing ? Moving or still ? Deep stance or upright ?

Then we can see whats happening !

Well, thats a strange question !

What has heart rate got to do with Qigong practice ? As its not a CV practice, and not intended to be an aerobic or anaerobic practice, you shouldn't be thinking in terms of heart rates !

Also, Qigong, and Zhan Zuhang is not intended to be a physical exercise. If it becomes physical, its no longer Zhan Zuhang. If it becomes physical, you are starting to tense up, and tension blocks energy flow.

I come from a pro cycling background. I lived with a heart rate monitor for years, until heart rate training was replaced with power training. Heart rate is a very poor method of gauging training responses. There is heart rate lag, and cardiac drift, and the effect of tiredness and over training, and temperature variation, and the fact that heart rates are specific for each sport. Heart rate does not indicate training. It is a rather poor indicator of the response to a given training stimulus by a muscle, with many other factors involved. Hence its use is declining.

The old equation of max heart rate being 220 minus your age is nonsense. It means nothing at all.

My resting heart rate is 39. My max on the bike is 184. I can ride at 176 for ten minutes, 174 for twenty minutes, 166 for three hours. But that isn't at all relevant to Qigong. Qigong isn't a physical exercise, so relax and just concentrate on the flow.

BK Frantzis, love him or hate him, says the heel needs to be opened up, to allow blood and chi to flow. So you stand with weight over the whole foot, then move the weight slightly forward, so you feel the heel and achilies area open up. The weight is still over the whole foot, but slightly more over the Bubbling Springs area, and slightly less on the heel. I think this is useful advice !

The knees, obviously, must never pass forward of the toes.

My feelings are dreadfully hurt by the failure of this important post to catch attention!

 

Just kidding although I have to say that the authors make a persuasive case that Taoism resonates very will with anarchism, and that that a thorough grasp of this connection would go far in refining the political debates that we bring to this forum.

As a long time Taoist, and an even longer time anarchist, I'd say that Taoism and Anarchist politics fit very nicely together.

I seem to remember Osho stating, in his opinion, Taoism was the ultimate rebellion.

I am having trouble with practicing zhang zhuang consistently since I read and learn of conflicting ways of holding the standing posture. So usually I will just say to myself that I'll just do whatever way feels right and hopefully the qi will align me into the proper way eventually...

 

For example in "hugging the tree" posture... or any other posture. My taiji teacher tells me to be more on the heels of the foot so as to keep from exerting pressure on the kidney 1 point yongquan. I have seen elsewhere that some recommend that you do the exact opposite and do put weight on the yongquan point. In the book Wujushi Breathing Practice it says to make a straight line going from yongquan to yongquan and the lower dan tien must me above the midpoint of that line and the upper dan-tien must also be aligned. "3 points on the same line"

 

So yes... it's things like these.

 

Some will say to slightly contract the lower abdomen or slightly tuck it in. Others say to keep it relaxed and to hold the concentration there around the navel. Others say pay no particular attention anywhere and just do it "zen" style like emptiness meditation type.

I've been practicing Zhan Zhuang for a number of years, 16 maybe, and have learnt from a few good masters, so my observations would be, and they are only observations, not dogma.....

Its too easy to immerse ourselves in information. I've got pretty much every book on Zhan Zhuang and Chi Gong in the english language. And I've studied them all. And if I took it al on board, I'd be pretty confused. Paralysis by analysis, and all that !

An hour of good practice is worth all of that written information, and more, in a general sense, unless you are experienced enough to learn how to apply it.

If you have a Taiji teacher, and he or she is instructing you on your Zhan Zhuang practice, why are you doubting them ? Don't you trust them ? And if you don't, why are you still at the class ? Maybe you should give their method a good try, say a year, and then assess the results ?

The best books, in my opinion, for reliable information for the beginner, are those by Master Lam. They aren't perfect, in that they leave out some of the more technical details and some of the more powerful aspects, but the information given is first rate, and you certainly won't go wrong. I think he chose to leave out those aspects because he knew they weren't really that useful for the beginner. Get the basics right first etc

The books by Jan Diepersloot are very good too. More information on alignments, centre lines etc. And interestingly, each time I read Warriors of Stillness, I get more, or less from it, depending on where my practice has taken me.

I think its too easy to over analyse and intellectualise our practices, in this age where information is so easily available. I think daily practice of Zhan Zhuang is one of the most powerful practices available, but it takes a good few years before we get to the stage of being able to apply everything we know to it. It takes years to really settle into the alignments and feel the energy clearly, with a still mind.

I'd say to read the books by Master Lam and follow his advice for a couple of years. Don't be in a rush. Then assess where you have got to, and look at the deeper levels of the practice. But it'll be at least two years of daily practice, minimum, before you are ready to go deeper.

Only my opinions of course.......

There is an old Chinese saying, along the lines of;

Believe those who say they are seeking the truth

Disbelieve those who say they've found it.

Sure, there are many masters out there, and lets face it, anyone can all themselves a master. I've met people who claimed much, but knew little, and people who knew little, but actually had great wisdom.

When I teach healing, and sometimes when I teach Chi Gung, I occasionally meet people with enormous wisdom and understanding, from a very natural, intuitive perspective. Often, too much learning and too much intellectualising blocks the flow of wisdom.

What am I saying ? Most people have something of value to teach.

I've been practicing various forms of internal martial arts and Chi Gung for almost 18 years. I'm just scratching the surface. I know more than many, I know less than far more. I can tell you things you don't know, I can teach you things you hadn't thought of, but you can do the same for me.

If you use your brain, don't part with vast sums of money and don't imagine there is anyone who has all the answers, you won't go too far wrong.

Abdicate all your critical judgement and treat someone like a god, and you're asking for trouble !

Apparently, the practice of 'Neigong', the grandfather of Qigong, was based on the 64 hexagrams of the I-Ching. Three variations of three types of energies (Yin, Yang, Dao) corresponded to three basic techniques with three variations for a total of nine, keyed to main meridians in the body.

Correct !

Yep. But then without the debates far fewer would attain a better understanding of Te.

 

That's what it is all about in my opinion. Define Tao? Yeah, right. But Te? Yes, we can talk about that and even gain a better understanding as long as we do not have our brain filled with our own delusioned thoughts.

Agreed. Westernised intellectualising will be the death of us all, but feeling from heart and knowing from the mind, the heart/mind connection, might just get us there.

If that makes any sense at all !

The Tao that can be spoken is not the eternal Tao

The name that can be named is not the eternal name

The nameless is the origin of Heaven and Earth

The named is the mother of myriad things

Thus, constantly free of desire

One observes its wonders

Constantly filled with desire

One observes its manifestations

These two emerge together but differ in name

The unity is said to be the mystery

Mystery of mysteries, the door to all wonders

And thereby, the eternal debate continues........

Muscle pain is absolutely fine, and part of the adjustment as your body learns a new way of movement.

Joint pain is absolutely wrong and shows big problems with your stance alignment.

Muscle pain good......Initially

Joint pain bad.......Always !

Thanks everyone !

I'll hopefully be able to bring something to the community, rather than just lurking. And I'm sure I'll learn from everyone else too.

Heres to the future !

Hello Everyone.....

Long time lurker on these boards. Thought I ought to register and show myself.

I hope you'll allow me to say a few words about myself, and i hope it won't be too boring to read.

I have studied Taiji, Chi Gung, Bagua, Kriya yoga and various 'energy arts' for many years now. Chi Gung is my great passion, and I have been lucky enough to learn from a number of masters. I have practiced every day for a decade or more.

I have been a professional healer for 18 years. I have three clinics in Britain and several abroad. I've dedicated my life to healing, but I'm hoping to dedicate the next 18 years to working more on myself, and less on the rest of the world. Its been an amazing journey, and I have learnt some incredible things, about energy, about others, and about myself. I've had tremendous success, treating over 20000 people, but its come at a high cost.

Four years ago I acquired a 'stalker' who decided she had to dedicate herself to destroying my life. I'd never met her before, but she claimed to have been married to me, raped by me etc etc. Three thousand death threats followed, on phone, text and email. Then an assault, then attempted murder. The police weren't interested. Things got worse and worse......family and friends were threatened, clients were intimidated. She hacked my computers and phone. Placed spies into my circle of friends to record conversations, denounced me to every official body she could think of, it seemed to have no end. She poisoned her own dogs, hoping to set me up for it.......and then publically accused me of murder, child abuse, violence.......My solicitors were at a loss. Nothing could stop her. She was untouchable and seemed to be able to control people, getting a number of her 'friends' to do her dirty work. Anyone she approached seemed to fall under her spell. My impeccable reputation, based on the highest moral and ethical stance, was being destroyed.

Eventually, things became clearer. She boasted of police protection. And as all my complaints to the police had been ignored or laughed at, often I was told I was making it all up, despite very clear and credible evidence, including witnesses, so it seemed quite likely. But new police officers in the area contacted me, and confirmed her partner was a senior police officer. She really did have protection. It was four years too late, but at least it was something. She was arrested at long last, despite being tipped off by another corrupt officer. Things are now quiet, but I have no doubt my life is in danger. The local police are now paranoid about my safety, and I now live in hiding.

How did I come through all this ? Her last stalking victim attempted suicide after only four months. I mediated twice a day, for several hours. I practiced a minimum of one hour a day Chi Gong. And I spent at least eight hours a day healing, hoping to bring more value to others lives, as well as clarity and value to my own.

So I came through it. Just about. Life can never be the same again for myself, my family, my friends and my clients. I am doubtless a better person. I certainly have more compassion and appreciation for the downtrodden and persecuted, even though I had always tried to make compassion and love the cornerstone of my life. And while I had previously directed my attention outwards, in trying to help others, I now find it directed more inwardly.

Why did it all happen ? Obviously I brought it to me. It was my karma, and a great chance to learn and grow. I'm just sorry my friends and family became victims too. It was her karma too, so I was as much a tool for her growth and she was for mine.

So thats my story. Despite my experience, I still feel I am a beginner, and I am hungry for knowledge. I work less now, and dedicate more time to Chi Gong and meditation. I live a quiet, vegan lifestyle, hidden away in the countryside. I hope I'll learn plenty more from this forum and can maybe contribute something to everyone else.