Golden Path

The forum doesn't have much to say, it kinda small and tame. Info on the front page says that it's a learning center that goes to China to learn some Taoist stuff. What they teach: Tai Chi, Xinyi, Bagua zhang, I chuan, Qi gong, and tea ceremony.

Oh and all teachers are Russian

http://daode.ru/att_instructors.php

There are many info on our forum http://forum.daode.ru/, but it's all in ru.lang.

Also in the link above - it's not teachers ), they all instructors, and in different directions.

You can read a short presentation in eng.lang here http://all-dao.com/a...t/4-daode.html.

Best regards

http://www.all-dao.c...meditation.html

 

Sure, there is an incorrect method of sitting ( "like a dry piece of wood").

 

But, if sitting is done properly then it is one of the thousands of Gates to the Dao.

Did you heard about the real Yang Qi that emerges from stillness ?

When you reach extreme Yin, there Yang is born.

This is the Dao.

 

P.S.

Their website is very very cool! One of the most beautiful webpages I've ever seen :-)

Hello, yes you right.

Thanks for the kind review of the website!

Best gerards

The 'lineage' on the site goes;

 

柳華陽 Liu Huayang

I

Teacher of single Yang

 

The dates for Liu Huayang are 1736, to a tentative date of 1846. So who were the lineage holders between 1846 and today?

Hello,

On the site is presented only the short genealogy, the full exact lineage holders and the reason why it's not full can be known only to students of the school.

Best gerards

Enlightened (in a non-dualistic sense) beings still die, and their yang spirit still scatters to the wind, and their yin spirit is subject to the same process all other yin spirits are subject to.

I pointed out in a previous thread that Stillness-Movement was related to Longmen Pai, and Wu Liu pai is an offshoot of Longmen Pai, but from all I've read there can be tremendous variance in methods related in name.

From what I've seen so far, basically all the Chinese neidan systems utilize sitting meditation as their basic foundation

What is called "sitting meditation", is really can be very different practice. Some info about it here http://all-dao.com/d...meditation.html

But can tell briefly, that sitting meditation CAN NOT be the basic foundation in taoist alchemy systems, if you the accent on this- it can be only Qigong. But a good Qigong also is needed...the question- how to know is that qigong system good or not?

For example, what I've read on Shen Laoshi's blog about Wang Liping's Ling Bao methods does not seem very similar to the Wu Liu methods in say, Taoist Yoga or Hu Xuezhi's site.

Wang Liping and his school does not give taoist alchemy methods. His practice is qigong only.

Wuliupai and Longmenpai do not have relations to his school and methods /It discussed earlier/

I mean, even the header & classical pics used on their site show guys sitting in lotus. Yet, this is "incorrect" practice? Makes you wonder what is their "correct" practice then...?

You mean here? Is there an English version, though?

This seems like a very interesting lineage. however, it seems the only place where they even teach people is in person and in Russia only. I'm not sure about China.

Of course our school from China, we can tell that in Russia only a one of many branches.But in Russia we are more open to all other counties.

The problem in that for people who have decided to take the alchemy path, requires constant konrol and regular classes. Since we do not have branches outside of Russia, this is possible only if the people (students) will be constantly come to Russia. Besides the language of communication may also impose restrictions on communication and understanding (if a mentor does not know English.)

With time, after the opening of school, we have found that students are not ready to come for classes regularly, and this is understandable-they must every time to obtain a visa, tickets and accommodation, and so on ... Therefore the site all-dao.com has only exploratory in nature.

In the future date when the time comes, can be a development in other countries.

Hello everybody, and thank you for the interest to the school of alchemy Wu Liu Pai!

I'll try to answer on some question in this topic.

Sorry for a some delay, but it is not possible to be here very often. Also there isn't an accent on developing in other counties to this moment, and the most important reason of this that we have not branches outside of Russia.

...To find a good answer, I must use western science for a good source of information.

Already a wrong approach because western science does not consider in its theory - qi. And qi is not something virtual, but very real energy.

If we want to talk about energy, then this is the right place for it. Let's start with the requirement of the muscle contraction. The muscle contraction requires a biochemical energy called adenosine triphosphate, ATP. The ATP are generated by the mitochondria in the muscles. The ATP requires lots of oxygen to be combined with the glucose in order to be generated. The movements in Tai Ji are always having the the arms and legs bent which causing all the muscles to be contracted slightly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Adenosine_triphosphate

In order to properly consider the question from this point of view, it is necessary to study the course of organic chemistry and biology. You make this offer?

Then, good master qigong for whom qi is not a virtual energy (about what many talk), but a very real energy, must apply this theory and his practical knowledge and experience and explain it to you.

You are hoping to find here such a man? )))

Nevertheless, let's try to find here the main problem...

Af first, you wrote: "The muscle contraction requires a biochemical energy called adenosine triphosphate, ATP". Please explain what is it -"The muscle contraction" ? when it occur?

Is there anybody would like to discussion Chi Kung scientifically to investigate why it is giving us a healthy body.....????

Because our body - a combination of different energies in different states and manifestations, if you are working with this energy using right methods of qigong (not breathing!) or better alchemy , this strengthens the body and gaining health.

All the explanations are short enough, long discussions - from not knowing!

If you want to know more about Chi...Link: Chi

Thanks for the article, but it says only about what I have written earlier and briefly:

Yes, when breathing, an external qi is absorbed from the air, and this is post-heaven qi (氣 or 气)...

In the ancient times mainly used 炁 (primordial, preheaven energy), and not 气

Yes, when breathing, an external qi is absorbed from the air, and this is post-heaven qi (气 or 气)

But if some of qigong is used this principle as the main method, this is wrong, this distortion and going away from the traditional methods of the neidan. Flee from such masters away.

On the other hand, is now to find the right methods ... everywhere and global ignorance of these matters.

In the ancient times, the Chinese only knew they were existed between Heaven and Earth. So they considered themselves as Heaven-Human-Earth are united as one unity. So, the source of air(chi) they breathe has to come from Heaven and Earth. The source of air from Heaven was called the Chi of Heaven(天氣, tian1 chi); and from Earth was called Chi of Earth(地氣, di4 chi). They thought after breathing the (天氣, tian1 chi) and Earth(地氣, di4 chi) inside their bodies, these two chi's become a 和氣(harmonious chi). The 和氣(harmonious chi) then is circulating inside the body to give them a tremendous body energy.

In the ancient times mainly used 炁 (preheaven energy), but not 气 (post-heaven). All other- fantasy.

You've clearly not read Grandmaster Feng Zhi Qiang's book on the subject then. Let me quote:

 

"Forget about breathing. You will breath naturally."

YES, this is correct.

In true neidan methods, breathing is not used.

I'm finding Qigong exercises based on

 

1. breath. creates more of a yang qi.

2. standing/alignment. creates more of a yin qi.

 

anyone else?

No it's not correct

23 pictures with mountain tigers:

http://www.all-dao.ru/gallerys/tigers2/index.html?detectflash=false&

So, you mean it comes into the body at birth and leaves at death, but it is capable of wondrous things when you are able to intentionally move with it in and out of the body? This would be the YANGSHEN developed by combining cultivated yang with the yinshen as sort of a propulsive mechanism?

This sounds a bit like astral travel, and also how some shamans go into the spirit world to bring someone's spirit back -- two different things maybe? both of which I have no experience of (nor great ambitions to).

So, at this point, what is the "Shen"?

Hi! This is a Yin spirit in the human body-YINSHEN.

It comes into the body at birth and leaves the body at death.

Understand what Shen possible only if take it out beyond the body .

Taoist mountains - Art picture gallery:

http://www.all-dao.ru/gallerys/mountains1/index.html

The article and discussion:

QIGONG & TAOIST ALCHEMY - WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE? - Recently there is widespread opinion that Taoism, alchemy and qigong are the same. This is a delusion...

I just read Taoist Yoga recently and having listened to your conversation, I was wondering what your thoughts on out-of-body experiences or astral projections in relation to this topic. Specifically, I practice the methods of Robert Bruce and Robert Monroe to initiate a projection into the six realms. Would you say that what is being generated through this practice is the ghost immortal? And if so, will this practice make it more difficult or impossible for me to later attempt to do alchemy? Any advice would be appreciated. Unfortunately, I do not access to a teacher where I currently live.

Hi Zhuo Ming-Dao, i read Robert Monroe only a short while, for a principled review.

Of course, first -these practice work with the consciousness (mind) that only indirectly related to the yin-shen (yin-spirt). Secondly - the maximum achievement of here may be - moving yin-shen out of the body. In this case, may cause various interesting phenomena and abilities.

But it is not easy and it is very dangerous!

But even if this is achieved, it's still not connected with the ghost immortal, because the ghost immortal is not just a moving yin-shen.

And if so, will this practice make it more difficult or impossible for me to later attempt to do alchemy?

It's good question, because if you will going to practice alchemy in the future, this practices can affect not for the better, and at first will be need additional time to eliminate the negative impact of which has already absorbed the body from this.

I have The Teachings of Immortals Chung and Lu translated by Eva Wong, which is where I came across this passage:

Hi Taomeow, here is our version

Lui Dongbin asked: When people die, they become ghosts (a devil, a ghost), when they complete the Tao - become immortals. But an immortal is a concept, how does becoming immortal help to reach the heaven?

Zhongli Quan said: If people want to avoid the endless rebirths, not to born in the lower bodies, to experience for themselves that there could be no diseases, old age, death and misery, then they should rely on heaven and earth, resting upon yin embrace yang and fulfill humanity. People should not become the ghosts, but being a man they should perfect immortality, and become immortal to reach Heaven!

Zhongli Quan said: The immortal is not a one concept. Pure yin without yang is a ghost, pure yang without yin is an immortal. The blend of yin and yang - a man. Only man can become a ghost or immortal (i.e. die or reach the immortality). If a man does not perfect since the youth, indulges passions and the desires, then sickness and death will come, and a transformation into a ghost will occur. The man who understands this and perfects, will overcome the profane, and penetrate into the sacred, reach true Liberation - this is immortal. The immortals are divided into 5 types, the methods - into 3 completions; the perfection depends on the person and the result of it depends on his fate.

Lui Dongbin asked: What is "the methods are divided into 3 completions and the immortals into 5 types? "

Zhongli Quan said: The methods are divided into 3 completions. There are small, medium and great completions. The immortals are divided into 5 types. There are:

Ghost immortal.Human immortal.Earth immortal.Spiritual Immortal.Heavenly immortal.

All of they are immortals. Ghost immortal is inseparable from the ghosts. Human immortal does not leave the people. Earth immortal does not leave the Earth. Spiritual immortal does not leave the spirits. Heavenly immortal does not leave the heaven. "

Lui Dongbin asked: Who is a ghost immortal?

Zhongli Quan answered: This is the lowest of the five immortals. They become free among yin (i.e. after death) ... last name is not recorded into the records to the world of ghosts, the name is not recorded in the worlds of the immortals. Although he is not included in samsara, but can’t return to the realms of the immortals, he will never have place where he can come back, he just stops his rebirths.

Lui Dongbin asked: This is a ghost immortal. What is his art, what are the methods used to achieve this?

Zhongli Quan answered: At the beginning people who try to perfect themselves do not understand the Great Tao and seek quick result. Their body is like a dried tree, the heart is like cold ashes. They keep inside the spirit and the mind and do not disperse the intention. In the immobility the spirit of Yin goes out of the body, this is a ghost, It has nothing to do with pure yang of immortals. Because of his single intention and lack of dispersing of yin soul this is called a ghost immortal. Although people say "immortal", but in fact it is a ghost.

http://www.all-dao.com/ghost-immortal.html

Shamanic practices are not mentioned specifically at all

Shamanic practices - it is usually the work of Yin-sheng. It can be strong, but nevertheless does not reach the level of Earth immortal (and I think even Human immortal). But here we must keep in mind that different goals in the shamanic practices and in alchemy .

I get a photo of Zhao as below ; I wish he would not blame me for posting his as he is still somewhere wandering in this world :

Yes, we can see a gray ...by appearance there is much to say about achievement in the alchemy ...

Thank you, GP.

 

Just two quick notes:

 

Longmen Pai tradition does not hold that this pertains to shamanic practices, and in fact uses some (though none are currently transmitted to the general public), and

 

Lu Dongbin (Ancestor Lu), the original source of the above understanding, does not mention shamanic practices among the ones that seek to eliminate yin spirit and consequently result in gui-xian developments. He does mention buddhist practices though.

Hi Taomeow, please explain your point of view.

Exactly Lu Dongbin mentioned about shamanic practices and withdrawal of Yin spirit as the result.

Dialogue between two Immortals, located in a part Daotszan "洞真".

Treatise 钟 吕传 道 集- "The collection of Quan Zhongli and Lu Dongbin about the transfer of the Tao"

Zhongli Quan said: "If people want to avoid endless rebirths, not born into the lower bodies, to test on their own experience that there will be no disease, old age, a grief and death, they should rely on Heaven and Earth, embracing yin and yang and implement a human . People should not become ghosts (gui-xian), but as a human being they should improve in the immortality , becoming Immortal to rise to Heaven!..."

©Full translation I'm preparing only (but I did not know if this treatise translated in English already)

You can read our articles and discussion of them:

MEDITATION AS A METHOD OF ENLIGHTENMENT - Delusions about methods of meditations

LEVELS OF ACHIEVEMENTS IN TAOIST ALCHEMY - Stages of perfections in the TAO with images

WHY DO PEOPLE DIE? WHAT IS THE ESSENCE OF TAOIST ALCHEMY? - XING AND MING. FUSION OF SOUL XING WITH ENERGY MING

Very interesting info. Could someone explain more why many Taoist traditions then place so much more emphasis on the cultivation of ming/body/jing/qi than many Buddhist traditions do? Specifically how does training the ming/body/jing/qi assist in the overall process of spiritual cultivation?

I would be very interested to hear more about why there is this difference in emphasis between many Buddhist and Taoist traditions...

Hi Way Is Virtue,

Important and Xing and Ming, this is two part of Single, just in some schools starting with Xing, in others, start with Ming

In early Buddhism was and Xing and Ming, then the method Ming was lost and now there is only Xing.

It is very important that Xing can be understood by yourself or from treatises and books, Ming can be obtained only in oral transmission from the Teacher.