Neikung

Is that so? Perhaps he did mean Wang Liping.

 

There are just so many claims that are endlessly repeated wherever Mo Pai or Verdesi are discussed. Many are of the form "This person said this thing about this other person". Others are stories about what some person did or saw, or hearsay about what someone did or saw. Some are factual claims, like the claim "Mo Pai is the only school that uses Yin Qi" that Enishi pointed out.

 

It makes my head spin trying to keep straight who said what and how likely it is to be true.

 

Rumors rumors rumors.

 

The irony is that I don't even care about Mo Pai or Verdesi. I am just a compulsive annalist.

Here are several more sentences from Jim's book which should remove any doubts that he was referring to Wang LiPing:

"I am specifically talking about one very high level teacher in China today who was given his training gratis from his three nomadic, high level teachers, according to a book that was written by two of his personal students. The book told about how the three teachers went on a journey around China and took on a single student to teach him all the knowledge of their chi system in order that it might be preserved... This man who spent much of his youth learning from his teachers, I have heard he now is charging enormous amounts of money. This is very upsetting news. What he was given freely to him, strictly for the preservation of lost knowledge, he now charges not only money, but huge sums of money."

I just wanted to add my recollection that when Sean Denty first started talking about Verdesi's two Chinese "Lei Shan Dao" teachers, they were identified as a Sifu Jiang and a Sifu Luo. So I don't think Jim was necessarily bashing Wang Liping.

As I recalled, Sifu Luo doesn't live in China. In addition, neither Jiang nor Luo has been doing "seminars at a grand scale lately".

Dear tongosong,

This is a very interesting post that I believe should be analyzed.

Let's start witth the Title that you gave on it.

"The crazy rantings".... Name one.

Jim's book is full of typos and grammatical errors (I wonder if Jim has bothered to ask someone to proof-read the book). It is basically his rantings on everyone. He not only hated Sifu John Chang and the ancestor spirit, he also bad-mouthed Indonesian students (lazy, jealous of him), Kostas ( "the Greek guy" who only learned level 1 and 2 but yet somehow managed to write 2 books), Andreas (Dicky who never really trained and sabotaged him for Blair's 2nd video), scientists ( blinded evolutionists, and everything is viewed from that very biased and limited education. they also act as if they know it all), physicians, Wang Li Ping etc.

The book was also not well organized. He jumped from topic to topic without any obvious reasons. There are so many factual errors and misleading statements that most of them shouldn't be taken seriously.

Hi

Does anyone here know anything about this taoist practice of Wild Goose Qigong? Right now i am deciding between this and bruce frantzis's water lineage qigong. Dayan Qigong seems very interesting though and just wondering if anyone has any experience with it on this forum.

I don't know about Frantzis' qigong at all but I have done Dayan Qigong for 10 years. Personally, I think dayan qigong has been wonderful for my health. I practiced the 1st set of 64 movements for a few years before I learned and practiced the 2nd set. Both of them are great and I recommend them highly. The 2nd set is harder on your knees but you will experience powerful qi flowing throughout your body. What I especially like about them is how every movement is directing your qi to important acupuncture points.

Try this link

 

 

I seen a white light faintly appear on the paper before Jiang burned it. I say its one of his men pointing the laser from across the room. Notice how jiang stand to the side as to allow this laser to hit the paper. Everybody's eyes will be on the paper.....not on the guy standing behind them shining the laser .

 

A $2 laser pointer is this qigong masters weapon of choice.

I bet you that's it! I slowed down Jiang's video and snapped two scenes. In both instances you can actually see the presumed laser light on the paper before the burn. Judging from the size and direction, it is impossible that the light would come from Jiang's finger (just in case someone argues that his finger can shine a light). See attached files.

I'll take you on your word, won't I. Many ID's are only active on Verdesi threads. Enough to make me raise an eyebrow.

What you said is correct of course, eels also produce electricity.

Regarding what you asked, I have no idea.

All I know is that's within our range of posibilities as human beings.

Happy trails.

Edit: We also have specialized organs that produce electricity. In fact, we need biologic electricity to live, and quite enough of it, to be healthy and happy.

You might be able to guess what school I am the most knowledgeable. Since I was the first one who posted here the Taiwan Apple Daily's article on Jiang's deception, his stories continued to fascinate me. Although I don't think he is real (I'd be happy to be proven wrong), how he pulls this off still amazes me. It is intriguing but sad to read how Jiang and Verdesi colluded together to fool people. You have to admit that both of them have made up really good stories so far. Sorry, nothing else in this forum has caught my attention to warrant comments.

I'll answer that, if you tell me who's clone are you.

Let's not start that again. I have no duplicate identity here.

You can learn to store electricity in the body, like an eel. This is part of the training of Jiang Feng. Issuing out electric qi is a sign of accomplishment in Mopai. This is where the confusion arose. He made sure to make this confusion fact when he stated that he attained a level "simmilar to Mopai level 4". So, long story short, people began telling that he attained 'level 4'.

It's a big market, spirituality. There are many tastes out there. I'm sure will be hearing more from this guy in the future.

Eels don't just store electricity but have specialized organs that can generate electricity. How do you know that Jiang's training can store electricity? Are you sure it is not just Tesla coiled electricity ?

I'll betcha that the guy doing the finger jabs had sharpened fingernails, a common Chinese weapon.

A more plausible explanation than Jiang's answer to a spectator in the audience, who asked him if the wounds were caused by a needle.

It is interesting to note that Jiang in his web site refers David only as one of his patients http://medicalbuddha.com/jiangfeng.htm

Hi vortex,

Thank you for the link to Jiang's video. Here is another one where Jiang's students sucked the blood out a patient similar to a scene in a video sold by Verdesi:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVjZt4wUKKk

Why anyone would allow this kind of thing to be done to themselves is beyond me!

A web site from Jiang: http://medicalbuddha.com/eng.htm

He claims that he can cure almost any ailments on earth.

Note that he never mentioned a word on Lei Shan Dao. Jiang claimed his qigong came from Shaolin.

Hi Guys,

I cant get this funaki out of my head. The more i think about his intentions & what he did,the harder it is to let go. I want to start a independant foundation. ...

Its simply to go and meet David Verdesi with a video camera & ask his permission for an interview that can later be posted onto the net for general knowledge. Nothing more.

I don't know, r.w.smith. I don't like what Rfunaki did but I don't think this is the way to respond to his action. I have told him several unique events (that David can verify) and have yet to hear from him. I doubt that Rfunaki is even one of David's trusted students. From his posts, he seems to be a beginner student who also happens to be an administrator for David's forum.

Also, the claim that David changes teachers like gloves may be a bit exaggerated. He is a student of many teachers, but from my understanding he still visits and trains with previous ones when the opportunity arises. With the exception of John Chang, there are still students that go with David to visit the teachers that he learns from. Calling it "changing" teachers implies that he has one current teacher, and the past ones have discarded him.

David having so many "teachers" actually is one of his most suspicious/unusual activities. RFunaki's explanation sounds innocent enough but this would only apply if one studies math or science in a university. In Chinese Kungfu/Qigong Culture, there is no way a Sifu will tolerate his students to study with another Sifu. Certainly not for his real Tudi. If he finds out, he will kick you out. One explanation for David having so many "teachers" is that he was exploring these teachers in the early days before he settled down with a real one. In claiming that he achieved yinyang gong last year, he was with Sifu Jiang. I would assume then that Sifu Jiang was his real teacher. It was REALLY strange that he insisted Sifu Chang would help him to achieve Level 5. If one understand Chinese culture, there was no way this could happen. Within a short time afterward, David switched to Wang liping. What happened to his teacher Sifu Jiang? Did he kick David out? or may be David never really practice Jiang's "qigong"? Before you can even blink your eyes, David is now with another teacher at Korea. With his supposedly high level of qi, it would be really harmful to mix different practices. Of course, if he has no/very little qi, he will not feel the harm in switching.

cases) The even more interesting part about this is, the rest of the users, excluding Neikung, did not visit the page. (Neikung did, about a day later, also with a proxy IP address). Even without the IP information, I find it peculiar that all the users (about 7 I believe) somehow were suspicious of the activity, and did not visit the link with no apparent forewarning. Why is that? I'm not sure if it happens to all users, but PM's popup after I login for the first time, would this have not happened to these additional users? In which case, they would have known before hand, but r.w.smith's post about it was only after he visited and considerably later. His post was also several topics down at most points, so it seems unlikely that they were to see his post, and then decide not to visit the link. In my opinion, they did not visit the link because they knew what it was from a previous user's link, which would imply that they are either the same person, or work closely together. Also, one of the users also stated they visited the link, but did not.

Rick, your mind is tricking you. I have nothing to hide and didn't use any proxy server (at least not on purpose, I wouldn't know if my ISP did that automatically). May be your computer skill is not as good as you think?

How did I attack anyone? If you look at our exchanges, I have not said anything to bash you, or those I suspect are the same person. I have kept the respect of those involved, have not participated in any insults, and have not said anything deragatory about your character.

Yes, I think you did. You have accused us of being the same person and clearly called into question our integrity and honesty. Something I can't tolerate. You, on the other hand, have clearly lied by PM us that you have posted a rebuttal to our posts but instead tried to look at our IP addresses through a fake web site.

You also asked for unreasonable proof through the internet. Did you ever ask David how he showed that he was a practicing Mopai student? He was certainly a visitor to John Chang's house but how would you know that he did practice Mopai qigong? As tongkosong has eluded, I am a Mopai student but of course only Sifu Chang knows that. I can see how fruitless it is to argue with you as you have lost trust in everyone. I doubt that most people keep track of everyone's names whom they met, the meeting place etc. Did you remember everyone that you met for the last 10 years (and the specific time and place)? Just to satisfy your curiosity, I happened to know that I met David in Feb 2005. At that time, he brought a picture/diagram from Wudang to share with everyone. I don't remember what the picture/diagram was but it was supposedly from Wudang. If David has a good memory, I am sure he can verify that information.

Instead of this fruitless exchanges, I think Gamerut has an excellent idea. When you contact David, why don't you ask him where he got his doctoral degree, what year he got it and what his thesis title was. Where was his paper published? These are information that are publicly available and can be checked easily. It is fraud if David has no PhD (or other doctoral degree) and called himself Dr. I am sure this is something that David should want to defend.

RFunaki,

nice job.

Pietro, did you know what he did? RFunaki has this crazy imaginary conspiracy theory that all 6 taobums members that casted doubt on David Verdesi are actually the same person. He PM us and told us to see his rebuttal to our posts:web site. Instead of a legitimate web site, he was actually examining the ip address activities and then came up with more conspiracy theory. This behavior is sickening and cult-like in my opinion and you call this a nice job?

I didn't ask him to reveal his personal identity, I asked for specific details that I could verify as true, which Neikung did not provide. I specifically said that I would not request his name.

 

I also noticed I missed you when sweeping through possible identcal/imitated users. Care to participate an excercise to get to the bottom of this? genmaicha as well - I actually had sent you a PM about this a few days ago, and forgot to include you in my list I posted earlier.

 

For those that think I'm just picking those that disagree with David and trying to lump them together, I can see how it may appear that way. All I can say is that you don't have to believe me now, and that when this all comes to an end if at least two of the users I mentioned are not actually 1 person, then I will make a formal apology.

It is so sad to see that in your zealousness to defend David from his mis-statements/exaggerations/false statement that you fail to see the truth. Instead of clarifying and may be admitting David's mistakes, you attacked members in this forum. You came up with this crazy idea that all who contradicted David are one person and tried to trick us to a non-existing web site with the real intention of checking our ip addresses. I really hope that you will make a formal apology when you find out the truth that we are indeed different people with different experience/knowledge that happen to all contract many David's statements.

I met David in John Chang's house, before he started all this crazy marketing strategy and claimed that Wang LiPing, John Chang and Jiang are all from the same lineage. He clearly told me that he had a Ph.D. so your story of how it was a mistake of his students posting it the web site can't be the explanation. I recall someone in this forum even posted comparison of his web site before and after his title was questioned in this forum.

Let me explain my statement "I have met DV and found him NOT credible". I didn't attach a time frame in that sentence. It might be better understood if it was broken into two sentences: "I have met DV" and " I found him NOT credible". The first one doesn't necessarily follow the other. When I first met David and Anna, they looked like a fine couple and I have no prejudice or any bad opinion against him. As I said, he looked like a pleasant and nice individual. I don't consider contracting David's statements as "bashing" him. The word "bashing" in my understanding meant accusing someone due to prejudice or personal vendetta. What I did was simply to tell members of this forum what I learned from the source that many of his statements are just not true. It started with David (either in his forum or through Sean Denty, which I assume is his spokesman) claimed that Jiang is from the same lineage as Mopai and he extorted a large amount of $ for people to come to see Jiang through him. Please remember that in those trips, Jiang asked for $2500/bull (4 bulls for some people at a whopping $10,000!) for bull qi transfer to cure someone of an imaginary illness/qi block. I am sorry to break it to you but this story really spelled scam all over it in my opinion. Do you really believe that bulls and human have the same qi and can be transferred from one to another? I also happened to come across a Chinese newspaper that accused Jiang as a scam artist and thus I felt that it was important to bring this to the attention of the taobums members. I hope you didn't find this unreasonable simply because it casted a bad light on David? Hey, I didn't write the newspaper article. Sean Denty in fact later confirmed some aspects of the article when he said that Jiang used/knew of a Tesla coil device.

My opinion of David deteriorated after many of his statements turned out to be either over-exaggeration or blatantly false. For example, I recalled that he claimed he could perform L2 test without any help from John Chang. When I asked John Chang whether this was possible, his response was David didn't even pass L1 and might not even practice L1. Sean Denty later claimed that David is a "non-practicing student". I don't know what this mean? As far as I know, in kungfu/qigong school, if you don't practice, you are not a student. Anyway, there are many other examples but I don't want to repeat them again.

Specifically, I would like to hear the connections of Gamuret, Neikung, houtian, and r.w. smith. I can verify and post proof that I am a student and have met and trained with David - can you at least post proof that you met David, or where you are getting your information? I point out these users specifically because they seem to lead the false information front. What's even more surprising is if you do a search of Gamuret or Neikung's previous posts on this forum, the majority of them (if not every single one) is related to bashing David Verdesi, and there seems to be no other posts from these users in relation to any other topic or aspect of the forum. Why is this?

Rick,

I met David when he came to Indonesia. He introduced himself as Dr. Verdesi. I have no intention of bashing him as he was clearly a pleasant and nice guy when I met him. My intention was only to correct some of the false information that he put out. I only wrote on what I know based on my first hand knowledge and thus my comments have been limited to Mopai and "Lei Shan Tao" matters.

All these people that criticize David, where is their connection to him? They have not studied with him, talked to him in person, and have never even met him. How can they be so hell bent on discrediting him?

Has it occurred to you that your assumption might be incorrect? I know that several of the taobums members here have actually talked to David in person and know first hand that many of his claims are incorrect and outlandish.

Many also criticize David for his fees - but I find it pretty fitting. In my opinion, if you are truly dedicated, you will come up with money.... Many will cry out about all these fees - but why? If you don't agree with them, don't pay them. No one is forcing you.

His fees are high but I don't think this is the main issue. You are correct that if people want to pay, that is their prerogative. I am sure if Wang Liping charges a high fee there will be some initial complaints but that would be all. The problem with David is that he claimed so many things that are untrue. You can do David a great favor by answering a question raised by Gamuret and Genmaicha for example. It should be easy to clarify David's "Ph.D." degree if he has one. Common sense tells us that anyone who has a Ph.D. degree should be proud to tell the world about his/her graduate institution and his/her thesis title!

Despite all the frauds out there, there are the legitimate guys too. One would be foolish to paint them all with the same brush, just as the average joe paints cultivation in general as a pile of b.s. and misses out on the whole ball of wax. Personal experience and personal verfication is key. You cant use ancilliary evidence to condem someone. It doesnt matter to me one way or another what this Veredesi does or is, just dont care at all. But it does concern me that TTB's often shouts down legtimate guys like a pack of angry chickens, like playground children. And you know what Im talking about if you have ever been on the recieving end of doubt and mocking scepticism that most people understand as "logic", while knowing that in fact you are right and have something to offer, but the mo-fo's are so far up their own asses to be be curious, courteous and objective.

I don't know the case of TTB shutting down legitimate guys but for Verdesi, there are just too many inconsistencies. Here is another one..in his youtube video, I was amused at his translation of the word "miao tong". He said that miao 妙 means mysterious wonder and tong 通 means through, breakthrough, hence the word miao tong means wonderous breakthrough". He was right until the word "breakthrough". Tong means through but NOT breakthrough. The word "tong" has no relationship with breakthrough what so ever. Is this a translation blunder or a purposeful marketing ploy?

I have a huge file here (in chinese) and i used google translate for it. This file lists all the qigong tricks used by the many fake qigong masters in China. Some of them are truly amazing,From glowing red hot finger tips,lighting smokes,Sticking an arm in boiling hot oil, all can be duplicated and this book reveals how. This is a different & more revealing book then leung tings vagabond.

Wow.. Care to share this file, smith? or may be one can buy this book if you tell us the title? I can read Chinese and would love to see how qigong tricks can be performed by faked masters.

Thanks.

It isn't in the Daily Apple but in the posts dealing with Sean Denty.It would take some time to go through all those posts-originally took me several hours.Maybe I'll do it...maybe not.I read through all post related to Sean Denty ,David Verdesi and MJJ Becker.Becker has deleted most of his posts.Just trying to be fare to Denty though, since I didn't catch him in a bold face lie.Perhaps he exaggerated or made wild claims based on what he was told but there is a lot of honesty in what he communicated.Also a lot of first hand data to be gleaned.He still stands by David on some level based on his recent posts,he also stands by Liping based on his recommendation of Kathy Li...or he's playing both sides ofthe field.

I did remember reading the Seandenty's explanation a while ago...I am sure that Sean was telling the truth of what he saw/read but I just wasn't satisfied with Jiang's explanation. I re-read the link again. Here is what Sean wrote: "I also read the letter of apology from the student who started the whole thing and he clearly states that the article is a fabrication. He was upset with Jiang because he wasn't getting to learn the methods as fast as he would have liked and because Jiang showed him how to train in the Xiao Dao, a lower order training done with tesla coils.... Such devices cannot generate visible light from your naked hands..."

Please note that Seandenty seems to confirm the existence of devices with tesla coils. May be Jiang has real power but he or his students clearly used/knew of devices that can generate electricity. I also expect a real retraction would be published in the original newspaper, not just by showing a private letter.

At any case, may be Jiang has power but one thing for sure, he is there to make money, sometime in a dubious way (like the blog that was pointed out by genmaicha). Unfortunately, this makes him suspicious in my opinion.

Regarding the tesla coils.

It would be very interesting and helpful to gather some information here on how it is done to prevent people from getting fooled, often for large amounts of money.

For example would the fake qi master need to have anything in his hand or connection to his hands?

You already said neikung that the fake qi i.e. electricity is unpleasant and thus won't be applied for a longer time or it would be painful whereas real qi wouldn't be.

I wonder if anyone has come across the situation that the person receiving the qi treatment would have to stand on a wet towel. If so, what is the explanation for that? Would it indicate fraud?

How big are the tesla coils? Would the fraud have to wear special shoes?

It is not clear how the tesla coils are made but if they are hidden in the shoes, they presumably need to be worn at all time. Here is a diagram from someone on the web playing around with electrical shoes: http://afrotechmods.com/cheap/negativeiong...r/pikashoe7.htm

Here is also a news article about two fake monks who claimed to be healers with electrical-like qigong power. They were caught by police and found to wear special shoes to generate the so called "qi" : http://www.cnhubei.com/aa/ca77307.htm It is written in Chinese.

Here is a rough translation of several sentences from the article:

"In Jingmen city (Hubei province) at a farmer market, two men claiming to be from the Songshan Shaolin Temple were performing "healing" with their electrical Qi. However, when they showed their fake Shaolin papers, someone became suspicious and called the police. The police found one of the monks wore special shoe in his right foot. The shoe has a hole with a few thin wires. The man confessed and said that the shoes were powered by a battery. When the shoe was gently touched by his foot, his whole body will produce weak current. Their patient would then feel the magic of electric "qi" shock and became convinced of his "magical" treatment. In a few days, these monks were able to rip people off with thousands of yuan"

Sifu Jiang (one of David's masters) has accused Jiang (and his other students) using tesla coils to fool others (published in the Taiwan's Daily Apple newspaper).

 

Sean Denty said it was later retracted or the student admitted to lying

I haven't seen any retraction. I just searched the Daily Apple newspaper and didn't find anything else other than the original article. Do you have any evidence of retraction other than what Sean Denty said about Sifu Jiang's explanation (what else do you expect him to say?).

I feel I've seen a lot of time in this position, on the other hand, as I said has also demonstrated its ability to express a very painful electric shock.

In my testimony, but just read the book on the Wizard of Java, I want to point out how this path is very little connection with the development of spirit and awareness.

A real Qi is NOT painful. After getting over the initial "shock", one can enjoy the electrical-like qi sensation for a very long long time (minutes or as long as the person can emit the qi). Those who have experienced Magus of Java's qi would agree with me. A very painful electric shock is most likely not Qi but pure Electricity. We know that one can install tesla coils in the shoes and pretend to have "qi". Indeed, one of the ex-students of Sifu Jiang (one of David's masters) has accused Jiang (and his other students) using tesla coils to fool others (published in the Taiwan's Daily Apple newspaper).

In my testimony, but just read the book on the Wizard of Java, I want to point out how this path is very little connection with the development of spirit and awareness.

You have assumed that DV has achieved L4 similar to Magus of Java with the help of Sifu Jiang. Since he doesn't have a very high ethical standard in your experience, then the Magus of Java path has very little connection with development of spirit and awareness. However, I would argue that Lei Shan Tao is a marketing ploy concocted by DV to appear that WLP and Jiang are from the same school with John Chang. WLP is QuanZhenPai while Jiang is part of Shaolin GengMen. They are not related to each other nor to Magus of Java. Although David has visited John Chang many times, he has not practiced his path at all.