SiliconValley

You seem to consider what you like as fact and other stuff as theory - after 3 pages full of just theory. Other than just quoting some person and stating what you think of, there is really no analysis here, and hence nothing to respond to. What you state is thus your belief and you're entitled to it.

The same reasoning behind the use of Buddhist terminology in Gaudapadakarika - that leads to the notion of "advaita derived from madhyamaka". For example, Kumarila Bhatta, who is credited with the complete disappearence of Buddhism from India today (along with Shankara), was an adherent of purva mimamsa school and he studied Buddhism under Dharmakirti (who first incorporated concepts from the Nyaya school into Buddhism through pramana nishchaya) to sufficiently understand and refute Sautrantika and other Buddhist schools. Not true. The ancient saying - ekam sat vipraa bahudhaa vadanti - has been frequently translated as all paths lead to one and stuff. It really means that the "wise" ones refer to the "sat" or "the absolute truth" through various terminologies. The variousness here is only indicative of the impossibleness of describing the "truth" through words. Veda neither states everything as leading to one goal, nor tries to describe itself as different and the only way. In fact, it recognizes that the "top of the mountain" is really not the same for everyone and deals with individual aspirations on a case by case basis. I don't know why you developed hatred towards Hinduism - probably a bad shaktipat? - but this generalization is largely incorrect. Buddha being one of the ten incarnations is a long held belief and how do you contest that? And there is no harm discarding that as that belief has had no bearing on Advaita Vedanta or the devoted practice of a Hindu. And the part about Jesus going to India was floated by Westerners and not Hindus per say. The last I heard, it was to Tibet to learn Buddhism and not Yoga If a religion - or I would prefer to say spiritual system - could cater to one goal or class alone and different such religions were needed to cater to each group, we would be in a greater mess. Not that we are not already in one. This is exactly what the Vedic system does not do. It recognizes different goals, aspirations and qualifications and its varied teaching is easily evident through the many derived schools of Hindu philosophy we see today. And that there is the highest summit itself is an erroneous thing and there is no logical relevance to such a concept in the approach you speak of. That Buddhism goes beyond the witness of sakshi is a merit only from the Buddhist angle and not from the angle of Vedanta. So, this model where you judge one summit as superior to another is hardly acceptable outside the framework within which you hypothesize. Again, you speak based on what you "think" and not on what you have "experienced". You said each individual is different and so is his experience. It is quite possible that the element of grace does do something for someone and surrender in path of Bhakti has been put to some good use towards realization. It is good to stick to your school but wiser to not talk about something based on premature conclusions. Yes, that is what you think, but there is a really big possibility that it is completely untrue and it is you who are fantasizing through overt logic? I am not saying it IS, but consider the possibility. Till both of us can experience brahman/emptiness, we should avoid such baseless conclusions - as you pointed out earlier and avoid unneeded hypothesis. You were on the shaktipat bandwagon, now got on to Buddhism and may be you will hop onto various others before you reach your goal and your descriptions will keep changing meanwhile. So, let's reserve judgments and criticism of other paths till we get somewhere. Or till you can prove that the realization of a Sufi dervish intoxicated with the divine or of a vaishnava who cannot bear a minute of separation from his beloved is lower or inferior when pitted against the serenity of a Buddhist monk. Different expressions of realization or terminologies which matter not outside specific frameworks are no definitive tools for such comparison. Ho, ho .. slow down brother I can rephrase what you said and say"unfortunately most Buddhists never fully digest Advaita Vedanta because they look at it through a Buddhist view. Those that do digest Advaita Vedanta tend to stick to it. Now to something not childish, what are the examples of those who "digested" Buddhism and stuck to it, having realized the drawbacks of Advaita? There are, on the contrary, famous names including Kumarila Bhatta (who I wrote about in an earlier post) who did not. Many Advaitins studied Buddhism under the best of Buddhist scholars to understand the subtleties before writing Advaitic works that refute those schools. And observing the way they give credit to what they see good in the Buddhist school, they can hardly be declared as Blinded by "Hinduism".

Thanks Karen! So 30 drops seems to be the mandate. I checked the weights from both sources and both seem same. Both also speak of the kit as a 30-day detox kit. So, they probably got it wrong and added up 10 drops of each bottle to get to 30.

Looks like the different vendor websites selling the kit are the ones suggesting different doses. What does the actual kit say though? I looked at the Heel's site but could not locate the recommended dosage. Also, how often is this cleansing program to be used by a considerably healthy individual? Once a year?

Yup.. I think this is what we're talking about...

Hello, Like Vortex said, Detox is the New Yoga! Please share your detox experiences, what you use and what the benefits have been. Karen, Love every post of yours. Would like to hear more from you ... Did a Dr. Natura program 2 years ago and did not see much happening. Currently, I stick to Tai Chi and Yoga and do a complete fast twice a month drinking water twice on those days. Seems to be working excellently. Try to include more fruits n raw veggies and that's about it for now. Little1's remark in another post got me thinking though ...

A remarkable gentleman... learnt yoga from him - before the days of vinyasa - and he will be missed

I don't think you really understand what I was trying to say. And when you don't, like most of the times before, you resort to "Let it go, have peace, find your calling" and evade a clear response. I don't however see a problem with that. That's just how some like to deal with things. Well, I am not sure why you think I don't have a practice just because I stopped doing the K-thing. That's exactly what you do - assume and then talk about it everywhere. Well, free speech so you're welcome Well, Cam. you've written each of your opinion before, at times without much thought, and you are free to continue doing that! After all, free speech is still the law. And we shall continue to enjoy "my last post" joke. Really mean this on a lighter vein. And this kind of clarifies your approach or thought behind the "heartfelt sharings". Good to know that ... Finally, one advice all can follow .. especially when we are the verge of an alien attack where humans are sub-consciously programmed to deliver sales talk for the aliens on forums. ok...ok...gotchya, you have many friends here and a couple will probably jump at me now ... but a guy has to say what he wants to ... And good luck to you too..and to Max the Bodhisatva [just saying coz I dunno if Bodhisatvas need luck or not]

Well thanks for that post Cam, for saying this is how you feel the whole Kunlun thing is and that for you, Kunlun and Max have worked great. Which really means the same is not assured for rest! Great that the post does not sound like an ad which says: "Go for it, it's all good! If something is wrong, it is either cleansing or just your inner demon..you alone are responsible". And we should probably give another year and come back to check with you Anyways, wishing great luck on your path ... brahmaiva satyam SV Edit: Did I speak too soon? So does this mean you have realized your true nature? Or, do cleansing phenomena (okay! I know that is BS with Kunlun...but yes...benefit of doubt) and energetic experiences serve as lampposts that indicate you're on the road to realizing the Spirit? Okay, if you tell me it just feels right, I agree. Why this declaration now? Suddenly? Why the repeated need to publish the feeling of Fraternity with Max? Is it something you feel you owe to him or to the community? Gratitude can be expressed silently as well you know...well, just stating my opinion. Ok! It seems you really have not trained under Taoist teachers other than Jenny and Max? There are teachers who adopt this path and their students do not undergo what you folks call demons and cleansing here. This is an incorrect generalization. There is nothing unique about Max except that he is unnecessarily eccentric. Have we not gone over this before? Why do you need to be condascending? Can we please cut this attitude of Max and Kunlun is right and if there is a nightmare it's only because of you? There are many who have expressed their concerns about the energetic phenomena behind Kunlun on this very forum. Jenny has spoken of Max as a crook as well (the exact word she used). I don't want to disrespect any one, but it seems you're unnecessarily patronizing Max. Great successes ... well, bumping legs? Is there someone who can be taken to say Bill Bodri and shown? Actually, there was one person on this very forum who spoke to him about Max/Kunlun and they had a good laugh together. I don't want to draw him here but seriously, why speak of something which you're not absolutely sure of? And unnecessarily ..till one is not enlightened or has not achieved rainbow or pinky or some body, stating stuff in the way it has been here sounds like a cheesy ad. Kunlun folks should probably use this on their website, sounds better than their current tag lines... And the holier than thou attitude is seriously crappy. So in Kunlun world, there are Angels and Demons, no human beings with moderate experiences? No one heard of hell breaking loose for those training with Santi and would you say they are just munching peanuts as they are not seeing entities around them that are greyish blue and allergic to Gayatri? Well, whoever said spiritual progress requires nightmares and hellish cleansing did not read Master Choa Kok Sui or Nan Huai-Chin. They can be avoided by an alchemist who knows his stuff, to a great extent if not completely. By the way, did anyone take a recent workshop with Michael Winn?

Really? Never heard of it in any Hindu practices of tantra, yoga or transmission except at one place. In the extreme leftist practice of Bhairavi Chakra, the bhairavi places a kiss on the bhairava during a specific part of the ritual. Not sure what exactly "East" means here - Tibetan, Daoist? Especially a male kissing another male for transmission?

Interestingly, an old Sean Denty thread got re-activated today. Really thankful to heavens that he or David don't post on the Taobums any more. Two private email conversations with David a few years ago gave me a clear message: RUN... And in the thread that has resurfaced, the only useful thing I found are two Father Paul pearls: There is neither an unscrupulous golden glitter nor an effort to sound heavy, but strikes the right cord somewhere deep within ...

That which lacks soul is boring like the corpse!

Here is what Yoda said: So he didn't seem to mean Kunlun shall turn your semen black or blue! And hope you're not reading things too literally And these are recommendations, not requirements, if I understand right. And if you get a transmission from Max, you don't need the 100-day retention thing. So, do you know what real Kunlun is? Did you read the thread on Yi Gong (I guess that was the last name I heard for Kunlun)? If you already have an idea, what are you really looking for? Some good words of encouragement to keep you on a practice that you anyway realized is good for you? It seems as though you want to hear not just experiences but only positive experiences.

This is an important feature of Pan Gu Shengong as well. Actually, this is what Sifu Chunyi Lin told me: When you start active exercises, breathe with the reverse pull thrice and after that don't bother much about reverse/normal breathing except to keep the breathing deep and relaxed. In other words, do not pay attention to whether the breath is reversed after the first three conscious breaths. Even in the small universe (MCO), he said it was better to focus on the intent of moving energy and breathe whatever comes naturally without paying attention to whether the breathing is reverse. His advice was to gradually develop a habit to breathe in reverse so that this pattern of breath is accomplished effortlessly during the standing or sitting practice. Another explanation I heard from another teacher was that once the Dan Tien is full, resorting to reverse breathing automatically sets the MCO in motion.

I used to like the searches as well. A while ago when I was active on the forum, I could search for a phrase by enclosing it within double quotes. Say "Max conducts a trip to Mars" or something. But now, a specific search within quotes seems to go on forever without returning a result. It does seem to work occassionally though, like just now...I try to use the google advanced search instead by specifying a domain, but that does not seem to return some of the pages.

Awesome....thank you Mat ...

Santi, I have heard many rave about his nine-breath method. I am not sure what that is, but is it something that Glenn passed to Jeff?

Just to point out, particular forms of Shiva such as Aghora, Bhairava, Vatuka, Smashana Rudra etc. fit the somewhat seemingly ghastly description. At the same time, there are other forms of his such as Kameshwara - the Supremely Beautiful one, Dakshinamurti - the youthful and absolutely still teacher of Advaita Vedanta, Mrityunjaya, the great Doctor, Sharabha, the fierce bird that destroys foes and magical attacks and so on. One picks as his favorite whatever form he ticks with...or rather whatever form HE thinks is suitable for the aspirant. And the path of Aghora, as stated repeatedly by Svoboda, is for a very few and is a path of: "do or die". Not sure why there is an impression that Kali is always wrathful! She is not even dark in all her forms. As Kamakala kali, she is red and is oozing sensuality. The wrath of Kali is always towards the (inner)demons within the aspirant but never directed at the aspirant. Worship of Kali in her serene forms like Chintamani Kali and Guhya Kali are taught after the aspirant successfully graduates from the "wrathful" form. Nothing as sweet as her This is not technically true. Vama, aghora, Kaula, Kapalika, Kshapanika are various branches of left handed tantra. Ramakrishna was an adherent of Vama/Kaula when he started, before he graduated to Advaita and then to simple surrender. But yes, his Vama or leftist backgrounds have been greatly 'sanitized' by folks including Vivekananda. Totally unneeded I would think! That was not Kali but Smashan Tara, one of the ten Wisdom Goddesses. Again, the need for smashan or burial ground arose because of this specific form of Tara who resides in the burial ground. If one could probably achieve the same state of "everything reduced to ash" internally while sitting at home, I doubt she would suggest a trip to the spooky land There are other forms of Tara - like Pingala who is supremely beautiful and worshiped by mostly householders, who take a job and need no crazy stuff ha ha What I was trying to suggest is this: its not always true that a crazy, extreme path is necessary to reach the peak. Other less crazy and moderate paths need not be necessarily slower or leading to a lower height. Well, whatever be her form, she is AWESOME... And having known Svoboda and his "Hero" personally, we should take what he says with a pinch of salt ..

Kriya is not all that mysterious, is it? I have done Kriya (with a Thokar using partial Khechari minus severing though) for a decade now, not exactly as taught by SRF, but similar and certainly found it to be a valuable practice. And results are not always dependent on the practice alone but on the practitioner as well right? If you find the concepts preposterous, why don't you move to something else that seems more realistic to you? Would it not be a waste of time pondering over something which you think is not right for you? http://www.aypsite.org/forum/ Search Yogani's forum for more info on Kriya.

Exactly what I was trying to say .. and Santi says it much better ..

Well you miss my point again! This is the Buddhist view and applies only to them. This, in the format stated here, seems conclusive and narrow-minded about other paths. You are entitled to your opinion, but I would want to state mine here as you sound unnecessarily condescending without proper substantiation. I also don't understand the dissing of specifics especially when you talk of subtle and deep concepts! Why would you assume they were the only ones who were in this state? Or considering the "subtle" difference, why cannot the understanding of the advaitic seers be a tad bit "deeper"? I am not stating this, but just re-directing your argument? Is some writing of Nagarjuna or the supposed writing of Buddha the reason for this notion? Advaitins have their own list of "enlightened" masters starting from Brahma to Shankara to Ramana, who also have the "experiential" knowledge which may not confirm to the Buddhist teaching. A Buddhist may term the depth of this "understanding" as "lower" but it is simply his notion! If there is a model to comparitively evaluate the depth in this context, based on something more than an assumed state of enlightenment of either mythical or historical personalities or of biased statements from either side, I would be very interested to know. Okay! If you say so You don't sound evangelical at all .. Shankara was considered as an incarnation of Shiva, Patanjali of Shesha the great serpent Spirit and so on. Some of such beliefs may be helpful to cultivate Bhakti, but considering the nature of the current argument, the mention of such beliefs is irrelevant. Even Max is supposedly a Bodhisatva! Uninformed statement, again! Charvakas do not accept the Brahman or the self. Samkhya and Yoga systems do not confirm to this statement either. Moreover, not even Advaita teaches a "merging" of the Jivatman and Paramatman! It is simply a process of realizing the ever-present unity than actuating some new phenomena like "merging". You believe that Brahman is unreal. Is this based on: - Intellectual understanding of Buddhist writings say of the likes of Nagarjuna? If that is the case, can you please list the works of Advaita that you have used to comparitively study the differences and conclude in an unbiased fashion that Brahman or the Self is unreal? Should we be taking things by a face value because someone who we think is an incarnation or an enlightened being said so - even if what he said appeals to us intellectually? Moreover, things said can often be misinterpreted. Both systems have their own set of thoughts, scriptures, myths, arguments, similarities and disagreements. And none of what you've written so far substantiate the overall correctness of your assumption. And there is an excellent critique of MulamadhyamakakArikA of Nagarjuna from the advaitin standpoint, which AFAIK, has not been refuted. - Experiential understanding I may take this as a valid argument but I will wait to hear more. Just an FYI. Hindu Tantra, if that way of calling it is even right, is a wide phenomenon which can hardly be time bound. The Tantras pre-date the Veda, which definitely was present before Buddha and hence his set of teachings. Every region has its own set of Tantra as different sets of Tantras were prescribed for different kinds of aspirants - based on their goals, their qualifications, their aspirations and even their geography! Ashwakranta, rathakranta and other geographical origins of tantras is well documented. The Saiddhantika and Pancharatra tantras originated in the Southern region of India, revealed to ecstatic seers, and continues to be more popular in this region to this day. Buddhist tantras pick episodes and deities from many such Tantras and speak of battles between the two sets of deities and the ultimate victory of Shakyamuni and so on. Two points to be noted here: Tantra has been prevalent in India ages before the birth of Shakyamuni. And just a portion of Hindu Tantra is from the Himalayan region, i.e. Kashmir to be specific. Peace to all