Cheshire Cat

I suggest to take a break from sexual practice until pain subsides.

It could be an effect of qi-channels opening in the scrotum?

What is the external conditions of your balls? Strange colors? how is the skin?

Do you experience wet dream? Do you check your urine to ensure there's no retrograde

ejaculation during the night?

There's an issue, a question that I cannot answer about the fusion practice of healing Tao.

In the first formula, they use the Pakuas to collect and fuse the energy.

The system presents two types of post-heaven pakuas: the yang, and the yin.

The yin pakua should be a "gathering device" since the yin attracts and receives energy.

But in the fusion, they form the yang pakua to collect energy.

Why?

What is someone supposed to do with 24/7/365 of nothing to do and almost nothing to worry about?

I want to join a daoist monastic community to find an answer.

But I think it is quite difficult to join a chinese monastery...

It's a shame that our society doesn't offer a "way" for those who want to

cultivate a desireless life.

To survive in society you must have strong desires and expectetions, you must work hard

...even if you are interested in mere subsistence.

Wow!

I want to try that extreme ZZ position!

During ZZ I experience pain in the arms which I think are affected by some sort of circulation problem. ZZ could fix it for sure, but it is painful.. a lot painful.

The only thing that I consider quite strange is that Earle died relatively eager (62 y)

while t'ai chi should promote health and long life

thank you

I found a master who teach this "old yang style" and I will see if I can do something in the right way

I'm too dumb to learn from DVDs, but I cannot say if this system is effective because

I'm an absolute beginner.

Hi

I want to start training in tai chi and I'm an absolute beginner.

I've heard of that style called "Old Yang" introduced by E. Montaigue

and I wanted to ask here what do you (martial artists and student of taiji) think about it.

It is a good system? It is the definitive boxing for real?

Thank you

For a reset, you need a backup.

Do you have any?

Practical taoism by Thomas Cleary

The secret of the golden flower (Cleary translation)

A good medicine book, natural remedies ... hint?

What about buddhist dharmakaya?

Is this an alchemical body?

I'm just a little guy who likes to sit quietly sometimes.

Maybe I haven't all your experience in the field of cultivation,

but I hope, in my limited understanding, to be useful for someone.

I talked about the basic principles of no-leakage, based on the essays of

taoist masters of the past. This is supposed to be the "basis" for cultivating

Yang-Qi.

I don't claim to have the right view. Maybe I'm wrong.

dao rain tao, if you please, why would dan tien practice not be suitable for everyone?

 

I do agree that working 'single minded' on the dan tien will cause issues with chi congestion. But suggesting that celibacy and watching thoughts is a healthy and more suitable practice for cultivating chi in the dan tien, I believe, is quite inaccurate.

 

Even a beginner can start chi breathing at the dan tien, they might not feel much, and it will take them a very long time to feel anything, but it won't hurt them one whit - and I talk from experience working with people. I don't want to sound rude, but do you practice chi cultivation?

Perhaps. Unless you have a proven practice that safely cultivates the dantien from the beginning...

This is the right place to share this practice

Thank you in advance.

From my understanding and experience filling the dan tien can be done by static meditation, nei gung, and dynamic, tai chi. You are right, the more chi you have the more you can do with it in a deep state trance.

The Dan Tien formula is ok for certain guys, but not for everyone.

It's common to have a few "collateral effects" while working single-minded

on the dan tien spot.

If my memory is not cheating, there's a book out there that talks about this topic.

I think that the basic healty method to accumulate energy for meditation is

"celibacy" + "watching the thoughts" rather than cultivate dantien from the beginning...

I will say nothing more because I'm not a bookseller or promoter of any sort.

Just give my positive feedback on the materials with the limits of my understanding.

Master Nan is a Zen Buddhist and when he talks about buddhism, his insights are profound

and his explanation very useful for everyone.

When he talks about taoism, his explanation are also of the highest accuracy. He wrote a book

on the history of taoism which clarified to me a lot of things about the matter.

Bodri creates links between various traditions in a brilliant way. He gives a lot of examples

and he never pose any dogmatic judgment.

I think that his books are very useful because I read them.

If you think that they are not, there's no problems or things to fix. Just different views.

Thanks for your reply, I appreciate it and I think I was a bit hasty.

There is still kind of a lot in the descriptions of the books that I strongly disagree with, but the fact is that the teachers in all areas that I respect highly usually have several ideas, beliefs or opinions that I disagree with and that doesn't take away from the quality of the teachings that they offer.

I think the presentation of judgements coupled with the Dan kennedy style sales letter just basically didn't work for me.

 

Wo knows though, I saw the white skeleton and it looks interesting (it actually strongly reminds me of a tarot meditation I know, but I like that this is somatically based) and maybe I will buy the "measuring meditation" book someday. The idea of judging the level of saints based on some checklist really makes me crack up, but again I'm sure that the teachings would be useful on a personal level (again, I'll reserve 'objectively' judging the level of saints at least until I reach said level or higher, for now I'll stick with figuring out what is most usfeul to me on my path :-) ).

 

 

EDIT: Actually if I had the cash and they were available I might get these http://www.meditationexpert.com/alchemy-fugiens-tapes.htm just to see how they did with it.

I do not accept that being a master of one (or three) traditions give you automatic understanding of all other systems (if that was the case we wouldn't have so many western experts screwing up eastern teachings), and don't accept that western alchemy was "really" just an internal process (it was internal and external, I'm a fan of Mark Stavish's book) but I've always thought one could probably effectively internalize the western process in the same way the Taoists internalized the originally external process.

...still I have enough to keep me busy for quite a while now, so I'm not disappointed I can't get them.

I consider their work as a great contribute to the field of meditation today.

Master Nan is known as an enlightened master of Zen, Vajrayana buddhism and taoism...

he is not the average guy who say "my practice is the best, you practice is the worst", but his view makes a lot of sense.

He speak as a practitioner and as a master, not as an external observant who judges without knowing what he is talking about.

Of course, certain claims appear quite exaggerate but I've found a profound insight

into the matter and a lot of explanations.

It reminds me of martial arts. I have had one instructor tell me that if I am attacked by a knife to never, under any circumstance, grab the attackers arm; an another instructor tell me to always immediately grab the attackers arm if they are attacking with a knife. The interesting thing is that both instructors have been attacked by people with knives and used their theories effectively. Maybe the one true way is not so clear cut.

I completely agree.

Thanks for sharing

Deep slow rhythmical abdominal breathing is also necessary to become relaxed enough to get this deep, I guess that's what you mean by embryonic breathing.

The "hsi" state of embryonic breathing is a complete cessation and it is reached

by letting go the breath. Although, it is useful -for a measured time- to control the breath consciously in the beginning of the meditation sit.

It happens naturally without efforts.

I reach a state in which breath is very very subtle and actually stop for short period... than it's easy to get worry about it and it starts again

There is an in between state, before you can see again, in this state you feel no body, and no thing and no sensation. On the other end of that if you keep going, you pop back into another body the yin body.

 

It is only when you are back in this yin body that you can project chi outside yourself and effect things in the real world. At least that has been my observation.

I think this could be the state in which vajrayana practitioners generate the illusory body. They focus on deities if my memory is not cheating me and their yin body is the body of a Yidam. In buddhism, it is the breaking of sensation skandha.

This accomplishment is not common, but the result of a highly focused practice.

Usually, this can be done only after a long purification process with the yang Qi that I was talking about.

Thanks for sharing

The emptiness that is being discussed is a deep trance state, you loose the ability to hear outside noises, to see outside things as your eyes are closed (you may see with eyelids shut though), and to feel your (yang) body, and you may grow cold, breathing slows down to a crawl naturally, and the heart beat is almost undetectable.

 

This doesn't mean you cannot think at all, only that your thought process is slower, like being sedated heavily, you can force yourself to think but it's easier not to.

 

In this state it is the ONLY state that you can work with chi easily and feel it move inside your body.

This is a drowsy state of consciousness that could also be used to induce astral projection,

but it isn't what I'm talking about.

I'm talking about the state in which yang qi arises. This state can lead to embryonic breathing.

Usually, you will feel a lot of heat because of the yang qi moving in the qi mai.

I see where you think this is contradictory, but you are in your other body, your yin body, not your yang body. You won't feel things on the outside world poking you, but you will feel internal movements of qi inside your yin body.

 

I've been there and that is my experience. It is almost as if you are dreaming but not quite, just almost.

I understand what you are talking about.

I consider emptiness to be a state of single-though and that though is emptiness.

You consider emptiness to be a state of low-consciousness in which thoughts come and go,

but based on what you say, I think that you hold on physical sensations to reach that stage and feel

the ying body... so there's a clinging to something.

The emptiness that I'm talking about requires a complete let go of sensations and do not

lead to a new identification with a subtle body.

It is a mean to purify the body and consequently the mind. As your body purifies himself,

your mind become clearer and a no-though state is easier to achieve.

I think that qigong is a device to purify the body in a faster way, but you see that it is effective

when you start to experience a single-minded concentration and the yang qi.

I apologize for the bad quality of my written english (Is that supposed to be english? )

They only appear to be contradictory because of a certain interpretation of the verbiage selected Replace "consciousness" with "awareness" - now what do you have?

Well... awareness is always present, it is the basic reality.

Even while you are asleep, your awareness is still there.

Pristine awareness is the Tao.

Consciousness is the normal "I" of the waking state... or even the fictitious "I"

of dreaming.

There are different state of consciousness used in shamanic works. There's a state of

consciousness associated with Lucid Dream and so on.

The sequence to follow for getting the Tao is very simple.

First you cultivate emptiness: you achieve a state of consciousness without thoughts.

Second, you abandon this emptiness realizing that it is in the realm of thoughts: emptiness is a subtle thought.

What's left?

Pristine awareness.

When we say "Aware the palm of your hand", we mean "Focus your consciousness on a single thought which is the sensation of your hand"

That's Qigong.

When we bring our consciousness into emptiness, we forget our body. All the tensions fade and it starts to heal itself without efforts. This happens because when you are in emptiness, your consciousness is not bothering your body with his continuous "I am this".

Try to believe

 

Three Secrets of Practicing Qigong Effectively

 

1) Go into the emptiness

 

Countless different Qigong and meditation exercises exist. All teach the basic idea of using consciousness to go into the emptiness where thoughts ultimately cease or greatly diminish and sensory connections to our bodies fade. We (...) The deeper you go into the emptiness, the faster your body will heal.(...)

 

2) Keep it simple

 

My masters told me the most powerful is usually the simplest.

(...)

 

3) Use your consciousness

 

When doing Qigong exercise, we use sensation of the body to feel the moving Qi. How we use our mind influences the flow of Qi. Positive thoughts, for example, (...)

I think that in this quotation (originally posted by More pie guys) we can find all the key elements for a succesfull practice.

Apparently, point 1 and point 3 are contraddictory!

In fact, they are. In emptiness, you forget your body, while in qigong exercise you must listen to bodily sensations.

They represent the two main road of cultivation: you can just practice emptiness and forget the body and have all the benefits of complete qigong set.

Or you can practice half and a half.

Using clinging to sensation up to a certain level and then cultivate emptiness.

The master key is emptiness. Without emptiness, no high results can be achieved.

You will also notice that the cultivation of emptiness will greatly improves the quality of your daily qigong exercise.

Hello I find your ideas about yang Qi and wind qi interesting. Do you have any sources to this? Is it something mantak Chia has written about or anybody else?

 

I practise in the universal tao system.

 

Fire Dragon

Hi

Theories about yang qi, wind qi and this sort of things are common in taoist literature and teachings.

I think that Healing Tao is much more qigong-like than taoist alchemy-style and my ideas are quite unpopular because of the famous formulas.

For example, Chia never talk about this kundalini-like "yang qi" while he probabily experienced it.

He want to be as more accessible as possibile and a qigong-like approach is good for this purpose.

But Taoism is much more.

The qi process in ironshirt is how I interpret certain phenomena.

For more information about taoist school and accurate information about Qi, I strongly suggest to look at the works of Master Nan Huai-Chin and William Bodri.

Highly recommended

meditation expert

Thanks snowmonki

What I consider to be the most relevant thing when talking about ZZ, is the tremendous help that it gives in arising the Yang Qi.

This Qi is not the "wind Qi" targeted in usual qigong exercise, but it is a form of energy that becomes hot because it cleans the obstructions in the Qi channels making you healtier. It causes a sort of friction with the impurities of ying qi in the body.

This yang Qi arises from stillness of the mind in sitting meditation also, but ZZ makes it stronger even if the mind is not completely empty (for example if one concentrates on relaxing, etc...).

Iron shirt is a mean to combine the effects of yang Qi (which cleans the channels and create free flow of internal qi) and the "wind qi" that is stored in the fascia exclusively for martial purpose.

There is not a definite line that say standing-> yang qi and breathing->wind qi because while holding the breath (similar to the state of hsi embrionyc breathing), yang qi start to rise for example.

In my opinion, the "packing" is a sort of compression: wind qi stored in the fascie opened by yang qi.

But I'm not a Qigong master: this is a student's opinion.

Thanks for the advice.

 

I have been doing a modified version of the MCO, called the "Small Universe", which was created by Master Chunyi Lin.

 

I have been practicing every day diligently for the past few months... so I appreciate your recommendation, but I think my questions are very simple and straightforward, and don't require an entire book to find an answer. I also don't think it's a prerequisite for practicing the MCO. In Spring Forest Qigong, Master Lin's Small Universe is a beginning meditation which he states is completely safe for any practitioner, no matter what their level is.

 

I have many, many books and videos about taoist alchemical practices, but because of all the conflicting information, I wanted to get some input from you guys.

It contains exactly what you are looking for .. and it is a perspective of a skilled practitioner that talk about physical transformation occuring when the qi mai are open and so on.

The autor is Nan Huai-Chin, a renowed enlightened Master.

A treasure, not a common book on taoist alchemy.

Please check this amazing book before attempting MCO

Tao and longevity

Dao rain Tao, I did not know about being able to stand fro an hour (which I cannot do yet) before doing packing.

That's not how Chia teaches it, is that the way it was originally taught and/or still taught by others? I think that makes a lot of sense.

Iron shirt was supposed to be the "advanced aspect" of basic zhang zhuan.

If you keep the standing position in emptiness for long enough, you will have all the benefits in terms of chi channels purification and healing that the most advanced meditation can provide.

In facts, people who engage zhang zhuan end in loving it a lot!

When you acquire a certain proficency in basic standing, you will go trough process of chi mai purification such as trembling, hot sensations, bad smell and so on.

If you want to speed this process, you can add breathing tecnhiques, but if you cannot hold the position for long time, this will not work correctly because you need a little degree of preliminary purification.

Originally Chia teaches very carefully the standing postures stressing the need to master the position for long time, but for marketing routines he had to teach basic and advanced in a single seminar.

People usually prefers being involved in advanced practices and miss the basis,then get problems and write articles online about how dangerous a practice can be.

Even teachers who don't get physichal problems tend to miss the necessary emphasys on the foundation.

You will have tremendous benefits in mastering the basic standing for long time and the breathing exercise will just add value to an extremely effective technique.

Hi Seadog,

the two practices described are very powerfull and have a great healing effect.

Your ideas are good in y opinion.

What people usually ignores is that a student is supposed to master the iron shirt standing position in complete relaxation for at least one hour, before attempting the forced breathing.

At that point, you are able to release all possible tension that the forced breathing may cause to you and avoid all possible ills effects.

A good choice would be to start to visualize your skeleton in iron shirt posture. This will help greatly the process of relaxation and make the exercises for bone marrow much more effective.

Hello all,

 

I have been working through fusion of the five elements and have been going back to Mantak Chia's Iron Shirt and Bone Marrow books.

I have been getting some headaches during the packing process so I have stopped that for now.

 

My question is specifically for those experienced in the Healing Tao tradition.

My understanding is that the standing itself establishes rooting, connection to earth energy and most health benefits and that the chi packing is not completely necessary; and apparently using too much tension is common.

 

SO my question (finally) is what do you think about just doing the iron shirt postures, primarily with basic qigong breathing as described in Bruce Frantzis's books and maybe a just a little gentle iron shirt packing and bone marrow breathing when it feels appropriate?