juju

Oh ralis, oh vaj, I love it. It really, really makes my day to see you boxing hard and harder. It is a marvelous thread to study male behaviour And ok, I have to admit that ralis makes me laugh far more. Sorry Vaj. But Ralis seems to be far more easily annoyed (I could not find a translation for my favourite word) and is so nicely predictable (well, the two of you are - like two spanish bulls; one a little bit more spanish may be, the other one a little more north-european). Thanks for making me constantly laugh. Great thread - go on. I really do not know what I would do without it (PS: And yes - there are as well some very interesting points of view and discussion themes inside. Thanks for that as well!)

Thanks a lot for sharing. It feels like your post will be quite helpful soon. It is very good to know that one can and will continue to tidy up the underneath stuff, even when realizing more the non-existing-self.

In my opinion and personal experience: A belief system helps. It surely is nothing than a system. But as we are not yet able to look beyond the system (at least I am not), we need it. It is kind of a ladder which helps to go on the top of a house. Once we are on the roof, we can drop it. And regarding the topic: I think this topic is very funny. I personally think VJ puts things very much to the point. I do not see him as fanatic. He writes his opinion, his experiences. Which mostly for me are very interesting. Maybe - to make this more clear, and thus the ideas in his posts more easy to digest - he (and everybody else) could post every single time: in my personal, very very humble, tiny opinion But writing personal opinions is anyway what everybody in here does. That is what a forum is for. And really: I personally feel VJ far less fanatic than some others. Have a beautiful day

sure I start to be tired of writing and thinking so much in English Have a great day!

Of course I wish you all those things like immediate wisdom and freedom. No doubt about that. I like those wishes! If you find the way to go there in an instant - I am very very very happy for you!!! Maybe you are far stronger than I can understand. But I have the impression you fight. You need to underline your strength. Which in my tiny opinion is the opposite of being free. I just wished you something which in my experience is very helpful. As it opens, as it gives a different strength. I basically just wished you that you might be able to stop fighting and to be completely, absolutely happy and free. Which is what you asked me for. The rest is nothing than one possibility to arrive there - and it comes on its own, whatever is suited for you at this point. But: As you argue so much, and with such an intensity against all "authorities", against teachers and of course even more about Gurus - I have this slight idea that this is what you are looking for. Deep inside. Somewhere. And if it might be so - then I wish you might find it. If this is not your way... ok.

I answer quickly No, practice can not be the final goal. It just leads to what is called enlightenment. And I hope it will lead there the soon as possibile For sure it leads every day to more easiness, bliss, non-attachment, less anger and so on. Easy example: If I do not trust my doctor, it will be hard for him to help me. Maybe I follow some of his advices - but I always will search for an easy way out. Only eat vegetables every second day, instead of every day as he might have told me.... It can help - but not as much as when I do trust him. I do not say anything against friends. And a Guru is not my dom, neither am I his sub. He is as well a friend. And we were quite often sitting together when he is not sitting on a throne - neither literally nor metaphorically. He is more humble than most of the people I do know. Yes, he left many teaching, many advice and sure he is with us. But he still is a being who does not have a human, touchable body. no. But I do not see this conflict with authority you see. And I do not feel submissive. Then we agree. As a guru is nothing else than a teacher. And I can have a drink and a laugh with my teacher. Anyway: My liking cannot be the issue. If it was my liking, then nobody could teach me. Because I do not like to get rid of my ignorance, my stuck emotions. It hurts. But once I passed through - all this bullshit is just gone. But yet I do not think that you could be the one who is able to lead me through this. Maybe I am wrong and you really know so many things - but as I do not believe that, there is not a real chance for you to help me. Yes. By simply watching him, seeing how he behaves, how he is in his everyday-life, how he handles all those situations coming up. Maybe he is not. This is alright with me. But as I do trust him, this helps me to help myself. And I see how many people change, simply by using his techniques, simply by trusting him. For me, this is enough. I am thinking if he ever made some tea for me. Possible. He did many things for me. Like I did many things for him. Everything in the right moment. And complete love and trust is nothing else than devotion I guess your idea of devotion is, just to take away every self-responsibility. But it is not! It just makes you stronger and smoother in the same moment. His goal surely is not to hold me there for the next 50 lifes As I said his goal is to take away every attachment towards him. And to all those other subtle and less subtle attachments. And bring me (and as many people as possible) to Buddhahood.

Dear Goldishead, I never thought you wanted to be my Guru And I accept the friendship happily. I knew you would stumble about the word everything and yes, it sounds like danger, if you do it blindly. But I guess, I answered those things in my last post. I really wish you will find your teacher. I know you do not want it right now. But I have a feeling you will. We well see

Goldisheavy, I try another approach - not to convince, but trying to explain what is the purpose of guru-yoga in my experience: (see - you are a teacher of mine now. I need to clear my ideas more and more ) 1) what is devotion? it is not simply saying: hey you, boss! this is kind of blind. But devotion is not intended to be blind. You can be devoted to many things. And e.g. when I am devoted to what I do, I like doing it. If am devoted to my teacher/master/guru (give him / her the name you want), then it is far easier for me, to do my daily practice. Which means as well I trust that this method/practice will help me. If I do not have this trust, it will not help. As I continuosly will struggle with it. I could devote simply to the Buddha-nature in me. And I do. But it is really hard to see and stay in it, when I still do not really realize it. I could simply trust and devote to Buddha. But he is just a mere idea, I do not know him. I cannot talk to him. I cannot listen to his advice, because yet I am able to see him. Here enters the Guru. He is there. Visible. Touchable. I can argue with him. I can feel his love, he can guide me etc etc etc. And his job is not to guide me into depending on him - but the opposite. He has to take away things from me. Things I quite often do not like to give away. All my attachments (as well towards him), all my ignorance, all those "nice" things I want to keep. Like as well my sadness, my anger and all the other stuff I am stuck in. 2) Love: The first time I met my later teacher, in one moment I saw so much love and light in his eyes, as I never had seen before. This was the moment I started to trust him, to love him. I wanted more of this pure and complete love, of being finally accepted exactly as I am. This moment for me was incredible. I worked with this love for one year. And then finally came back to go deeper, to accept him as my teacher. Guru Yoga is about love (and trust and devotion and letting go). To love somebody with daily less expectations is incredibly strong. To allow somebody to love me completely, is changing me in an extreme way. It hurts often. Because the more I allow myself to feel his love, the more my personal bullshit comes to the top. The more I love him, the more I have to deal with my expectations. And yes. You can be, you are my teacher as well. But could you really handle all of my (and others) bullshit coming up? Could you really give me a hand passing through it? I know, I can not. I can handle many things - but not all. Many things touch my personal emotional knots - and then it gets complicated. And this is, why it is so beautiful to have a realized being as a teacher/master/guru. Until now he never ever got stuck in my stuff. I never saw him get stuck in anything. And yet he is able to offer a vast clearness and "nearness" (sorry, if my english words do not always fit). I use my teacher - he is not using me. I take all my bullshit on top of him. I give him the face of my fears, my blocks, my emotions. And as I do trust him, I can accept his hand, his help. (A hand which does not have to be the real physical hand). Just by trusting and loving, I can go nearer to my bullshit. I can face it, leave it. And see that behind all this, there is something very different than all this struggling. That there is clearness, silence. If there is one person I can show really nakedly who I am - this is incredibly strong. And this is Guru Yoga, this is devotion. And this is what is leading towards your own inner master, to the complete realization of emptiness. This is where you find real freedom. And then you are as well free of your master.

of course not. why give up? This is true. As I said, I consider the whole world, everything my teacher. Perfect. I am here for you as well. This is why we are in here. At least one reason why I am in here But I still trust more in my guru than in you And I feel him as a friend. As a teacher. As a guru. As everything. He is equal - because we are all Buddhas. But I still am more stuck inside whatsoever. And there he helps me. That's it. He is normal, he is nothing and nobody special. He does not even try to be. And exactly this is one difference: I surely try to be someone special All I am saying is: Having found a (for me) reliable master, is one of the absolute best things that happened in my life. One day I will have to let go as well this attachment towards him - but still I need him. I just noticed how it changed me. I am more in bliss than ever before. I have less fear. I am stronger. And softer. I love myself more. And the rest of the world. I will not convince you that this is for you - and you will not convince me that he is bad for me as he uses his traditon :-) I am pure bliss and happiness.... But quite often I still fall into misery, into self-pity, anger, ignorance.... Better said? no. they can wear training jackets as well. But a throne helps when you have a bigger audience. You see them, they see you. And decoration sometimes makes it easier to see the value. Imagine: I give you the most beautiful present, which for me is worth so very much - and hand it over to you in ugly paper with dirt and oil on it. Or I give it to you packed with love, in nice paper.... Will you give it the same value? Here in Germany we strongly had the anti-authoritarian movement. Kind of: children had no more rules. Which was directed as opposition to authorities, to blind following police, military, Hitler... in World War II. What sometimes results in those things is that children do decide whatever a family does. They are the authorities. I am neither a fan of this authority-system where I just can say "Yes, Sir" - nor one of the opposite.

Goldisheavy - even scientific community does work like this. Only when the right two people meet and share the right thoughts they will have the sudden insight which might lead to your new computer. If if was not like this, computers would exist since eternal times.

exactly. but I would run away from this vast emptiness without the help of my teacher. He holds the mirror in his hands so I can see me, I can correct my direction when I am lost, and he shows me my Buddha-nature. Which without him I would not be able to face. If you are able to do all this on your own, without getting lost - perfect. I am really really happy for you!!! This means you are in complete bliss and complete emptiness, in awareness of everything. Great! This is the best notice to hear! But I am not. And this is why I am happy to have somebody to guide me. I do not feel like dominated. And by the way: I see even my friends as my teachers. And you as well. Everything teaches me something. The word teacher is nothing bad. And Guru Yoga does not mean I am small and he is big. It does not mean he takes away my responsibility. I have more self-responsibility than ever before And yes: My teacher calls himself teacher. Which I appreciate. But it is a word. Nothing else. The rest comes automatically. But children neither do well in anti-authoritarian environments. And neither should I be a friend of my child allowing him everything - just because I want him/her to love me. This leads to those strange situations where children (and later adults) do not respect anybody. not even themselves. But I am neither (absolutely not) for being harsh or too authoritarian with children. I think you have to stimulate a child, love him, care for him - and sometimes put clear directions.