Jetsun

On 13/01/2018 at 2:32 AM, Jonesboy said:

What does "going light" mean?

If others are inside you then you are also inside them, who owns the space?  A good line of discussion is how it is even possible to be inside another person as in doing things like remote connection, what is it that makes that possible. There has to be some kind of shared ground at a certain level otherwise such a thing would be a intrusion on somebodies boundaries. What is the shared ground, who does it belong to? 

1 hour ago, dwai said:

In terms of being "awake", I find that there could be someone who is awakened but unable to articulate what being awake means. Being able to talk/write about this stuff and being awake are related but not one and the same.  Sometimes trying to organize and rationalize the "awake-ness" can drop one out temporarily  

 

My Master transmits energetically. He doesn't talk much about it. He often doesn't have words to express what he is showing us. We have to become receptive to learn this way. Many don't, get frustrated and leave.

Yeah I agree. I like listening to Adyashanti as there may well be people who have a deeper realisation than him but I haven't found many who can articulate it like him, clearly in his own words. This is largely due to his own teacher who very early on when he was young put him on the spot and forced him to articulate his realisation by leading group meetings when nobody was interested in him or what he had to say. Articulating it I guess is a skill which can be learned like any other skill, do it under pressure and constantly enough and you get good at it. 

If im not at the top then it is incorrect, as I'm clearly the most awake and enlightened. 

Also the most humble 

4 hours ago, Gerard said:

A. Morality

Virtue

Hard work

Solitude

Practice in Nature

 

will deliver the real goods.

 

B. Selfies, Facebook, immorality, instant gratification, quick and easy money acquired fraudently....values that are highly cherished today...will deliver other kind of goods.

 

Pick and choose:

 

Hard A

Easy B

 

Most will go for the 2nd option because it is what it shines, glitters, it is the fireworks, the sizzle.

 

Who wants to work hard anymore?

 

Quick jhana, 10-day retreats, deadly Taijiquan, it has to be done quickly or I’m not interested sorry. 

This is more like life teachings rather than anything to do with awakening. How to lead a more successful life in Samsara.

Awakening (at least as I see it and understand it) doesn't obay such formulation or is confined to such beliefs. For example there are many stories of people awakening who did no practice or put in any effort. There are stories of people awakening in Prison after leading a life of ill virtue like Kenny Johnson , https://www.scienceandnonduality.com/?speakers=kenny-johnson , many people say Tucci Williams had a spiritual awakening in prison and he was a violent murderer who founded the Crips gang. 

As far as I can see our ultimate nature can express itself in any way it wants in any situation, the way we think it should go or would like it to go doesn't come into it. 

Out of all the awake people I have met not a single one has been into internal martial arts as far as I'm aware. So I guess it depends on where you look. 

52 minutes ago, C T said:

 

did you open the link? 

Yeah I did, as I'm one of the few people on here who post about Gurdjieff I assumed it wasn't spam. It seemed just like a normal blog talking about Tao , no malware I'm aware of or security alerts 

I got the same message 

19 hours ago, Jonesboy said:

 

Then why do any sort of meditation or system of practices if it is “already just as it is”?

 

Because they help us realize deeper and deeper what that really means.

Ok, but you didn't answer what it is that is merging? Is it mind, emotions, energy, soul?

The deepest aspect of your being is already merged with what is, beyond separation. If two beings merge with one another there is still the rest of the universe which is other, and therefore two things still going on, therefore a merge isn't non-duality in any ultimate sense.

So when a being is merging with another being what is merging with what ?

Obviously on a physical level the only thing approaching physical merge is sex, but that is a course level. 

Then on an emotional level people can merge whereby they take on others emotions , which is the most common type of merge which happens a lot in relationships especially in co-dependency , and with gurus, but that is a merge in neurosis in a way rather than anything healthy.

So deeper, can a soul merge with another soul?is it even desirable? .

At the ultimate level of basis, space, stillness, silence, doesn't even make sense as everything is already just as it is and merging doesn't alter that. 

1 hour ago, liminal_luke said:

 

From a certain spiritual perspective, everything is as it should be.  I am perfect just as a am and always have been.  This is true.

 

From a certain psychologiscal/energetic perspective, I`m kind of a mess.  Sometimes I`m depressed, sometimes anxious.  My physical body is far from perfect as evidenced by both western medical tests and Chinese pulse diagnosis.  This is also true.

 

Familiarity with the first truth is key to deep acceptance of the second.

Yeah I would say it is a lifetimes work (or maybe surrender) to integrate the two, to bring that peace to all of those places which aren't on board yet and still exist in struggle and a sense of separation.

If you are still there then it isn't non-duality as there is still you and not you, ie two, and if you aren't there then what is there to experience it? If you aren't there then there is nobody there to achieve it, nobody to be proud of it, nobody to even share it with. You get absolutely nothing out of it and it is completely pointless to us. 

Non-duality has nothing to do with a merge with another, as what it is that is aware and non-dual is there if you are merged or not. A child is merged with the world and merged with their mother, yet they aren't usually in non-dual realisation. Merging is usually a sign of codependency and a way of avoiding the true intimacy where you are nothing and everything, with a substitute intimacy with one other. People even merge with their pets which is why people start looking like them as a way to try avoid it lol. 

There is an inbuilt mechanism within us which can guide us back to where there is no more separation which is called yearning, yearning to return home to wholeness, so follow that yearning home like a thread, or not, but (spoiler alert) the ending of the story is that you never make it and all all your hopes and dreams are completely dashed.. which is wonderful

The author of the article seems to be lamenting the lack of ritual and tradition in Western Buddhism, but the reason for that is that ritual and tradition are cultural and therefore most Westerners can't relate to it at all, it doesn't transmit anything to them and it doesn't resonate. So I don't really see what the solution is and the author doesn't supply one. 

The belief that it is hard work and the belief that it is difficult to achieve may just be two more beliefs which need to be let go of on the way to Enlightenment ☺️

On 24/11/2017 at 10:47 PM, s1va said:

 

If the identification is dropped (not by effort, naturally), and then later it comes back, does this mean it is "going beyond" or the non-dual state?  This is a crucial question for me based on my own past experiences.  The Realization once arrived should be a constant and permanent experience -- continuous bliss at some levels.

 

If it goes away even momentarily, would it still be considered non-dual?  

 

Edit:  The calm mind that is discussed or even the Samadhi states seem to come and go.

The truth of our being is always non-dual, all the time for everyone, it is more a matter of recognition. 

*Oops I posted this by accident phone in pocket 

If you resonate with Tony Parsons then yes I would say you are at a threshold or gone beyond. I went to see Tony in person and what I saw is that many people couldn't stand what he says and left at the earliest opportunity, not because he is rubbish but because he only resonates with a few people who are at a certain stage or point in their path. So I would say keep going, you aren't going crazy or anything, there are plenty of other teachers around who can help, my personal preference is Adyashanti. Batgap.com has plenty of others

25 minutes ago, s1va said:

 

 

While it may be true that all of us are in that state already, I think such truth has little practical value, if such realization is not apparent or shining all the time.

But it can change the way one approaches this whole thing, it means it isn't about achieving anything or ascending to a higher plane or getting away from anything. For many people I think that is a very useful recognition, even if it's just a glimpse of the truth.

4 minutes ago, Jeff said:

 

I was not talking about “I am”, but specifically quoted your definition of non-dual with your non-doership. 

 

Your definition of minor things like addction to smoking (or porn, drugs, etc...) are to me a sign of subconscious attachments (I need a cigarette... badly  ), and effectively proof that the person is not in a non-dual state. Additionally, it shows that person is not even aware of their own subconscious mental processes in the first place. 

One can have a non-dual realisation and still have all sorts of subconscious programmes and karmic stuff going on, in fact that is the normal state of affairs. The idea that one has to be completely purified and fully conscious of everything going on in their system to awaken is a common fallacy.

Regarding smoking, Nisargadatta smoked his whole life and he had one of the clearest expressions of non-duality which has been put down on record. 

10 minutes ago, dwai said:

Yes I agree with this. I am is the root of all experience. Or in other words it is the point from which the mind rises and into which the mind falls back.

 

the problem is most people go about their lives without knowing how the mind operates. I find that if we don’t know how to abide in the “I am”, it will lead to mistaken identification with phenomena.

Sorry dwai I'm not saying quite that, I'm saying the I am is the stage before the root, or after that depending on what way you look at it. You could call it the first stage of delusion, there is still a need to go beyond that to find truth 

In my experience those people who talk about non-duality no matter the tradition always ultimately fail to describe what it is, it is impossible for the mind to grasp it because the mind only works in duality, so it is a completely different realm of experience than anything conceptual. When you get established in that realm you can put the raft of spiritual teachings down whether Buddhist or Vedanta

Yet I don't think the "I am" is the same as non-duality, think of it like different levels of a tangible sense of identity turning around on itself towards its source

1- I am => a father, brother, fireman, male, a European, a loser, a democrat, a victim  - etc defining yourself as something

2 - I - Sense of I existing before labels

3 - Am - Sense of existence itself

4 - =>       <=    Space, mystery, non-duality

As per Nisargardatta's teaching staying in the sense of "I am" is the gateway to what I label as level 4, to non-duality rather than being non-duality itself. Adyashanti describes it as if you stay in the sense (a tangible energetic sense) of "I am" it is like standing on a cliff edge, you haven't yet gone over the edge, or been pushed or blown over, but if you spend enough time there it is more likely to happen. 

For physical things like that western medicine and surgery is best as a first port of call, obviously a long term a holistic approach is useful, but for the issues you mention don't trust alternative medicine, especially anyone who will try charge you money.

I am speaking as someone training as an energy healer. Energy healing is subtle medicine while the human body is the densest part of our being. Adjustments on the subtle level are useful but once the issue has already manifested physically the first option should be a physical therapy and western medicine. 

In most non Islamic countries the chains of Patriarchy are gone, in the sense it isn't generally dangerous for women or men to break the system, but the conditioning of Patriarchy remains. Conditioning can only really be dealt with internally, blaming the current crop of men only maintains a state of false victimhood and powerlessness and shifts the responsibility out of ourselves (not that I see that blame going on in this thread but is quite common in the world at the moment) 

https://journal.thriveglobal.com/the-world-needs-motherhood-e9b174acb82c

A matrichical society would benefit everyone, both men and women , how to bring it about is the question

2 hours ago, rainbowvein said:

Throw that book away.

Which one, Semple or Cleary ?

On 18/10/2017 at 7:52 PM, Rickie said:

What is this sacred masculine thing?  I'm just not understanding it?  Are men no longer comfortable in their skin and are looking to some divine source to justify their masculine characteristics or not to feel bad because they're a man.?

I don't think it's about that. The divine aspect is the universal aspect, so a quality of the divine feminine is universal motherhood, so instead of only loving and taking care of your immediate family you look upon all people in the same way. To the divine you are literally it's child, it gave birth to you. But the divine feminine is also Kali so can be destructive also.

Divine masculine or fatherhood is similar, but I would say has a more protective universal quality. More a quality of strength going out into the world 

It is interesting though that the divine feminine is now widely celebrated and accepted but as soon as divine masculine is mentioned it's pretty much ridiculed or seen as weakness or something

Chop the head off 

If his protocol is basically using lots of other people's techniques and methods it's a bit of a cheek him charging so much, the majority of that stuff is freely available on the internet. I have done nearly all of it over the years but wouldn't prescribe it to anyone as a blanket formulae