Fire Dragon

Hello I copied the book to my disk. Beacase this is one of the things I haven't done jet from the universal tao system. But as far as I remember from what I have read from Mantak Chias books there is some dangers involved with opening the extraordinary channels without a teacher. What do you peoplel think about the safety in the methods described in this book and how about following it wighout a teacher. I am wery interested to do it beacase my teachers in the universal tao system is on another path and I have no guides for the moment. Wery interested to hear your opinions on danger and safety valves for this. F D

According to me. I think it might be good in the beginning to try out some different pracctises, but if you want to realy accomplish on a deep level you should sooner or later choose your system of practise and hold on to that, seldom trying somehing else at that time but keep the track in your system. F D

Hello. I do not know. But the ligth is described as the golden flower in the texts or comments to the secret of the golden flower. The ligt is to be circulated and fixed in the same time, if I understund the practise rigth. For me the light is: A part of shen, connected to the heaveanly realms. The spirit that shows you the meaning of your life and connects you with the heaven. So that you are able to live a life with a higher purpose. In the forword to the secret of the golden flower, R Wilhems version, by Jung. He also describes it in relation to the saints and theire visions. For instace the light seen by Hildegard av Bingen all here life. This is as far I get with my small understunding of it. I need alot more taoist theory to grasp it. By the way. I dissagree with Jung in that sence that he says that the east can't be grasped with a western mind. It might have been the case at hes time of living though. He takes away the methaphysical meanings from the texts and translate them to hes own symbolism from analytical psychology. He also warns against trying to practise this. The texts had a major implement on hes own theory and was the most important source for hem to connect hes ideas to something earlier written in the human history. So though it influenced hem alot he doesn't seemed to have grasped it. Perhaps beacase he never practised the taoist yoga methods hemself. F D

Hello All I have had time today and read the whole thread on the golden flower. Wery interesting indeed. I also read walter Piccas tranlation from 1964 and schimed through the wang Lipings students version of it. Wery interesting reading on the thread and in the translations. My own sparse relations to the book in my life! For about 20 years ago I come across Riccard Wilhems translation of it during intensive studies of Jungian litterature of all kind. I didn't grasp much of it during that time. It took me awhile after starting with the universal tao system before I realised that the text and my new interest was about the same subject, taoist yoga. During my early practise in the universal tao system I had a vision telling me that I would come into contact with the ligth. That ligth would tell me the meaning of my life. It was a certanity that I would come into contact with it if I continued my practise dilligently. That vision have been the the inner most meaning of my practise. It means that my life have a meaning and that I am able to see what it is, amasing! The vision had more content to it and When I reread the introduction by Jung to Richard Wilhems version of the TSOTGF I was amased of hes descripion of the ligth. It was exactly the same that I had my vision about. During my practise in the white tigress system I was meditating daily on the original cavity or the ancestrall hall that it also is called. A point betwean the eyes a bit above and a bit behind the eyes. During that practise I saw flaschings of ligths in the ancestors hall. I did also dream about my ancestors and how they lived what problems they had and how they where related to the society as a whole. The experience with the ancestors hall was one of a few things that did motivate me to go and take courses with Hsi Lai. My feeling is that this practise the secret of the golden flower will be a part of my future investigations into the taoist yoga system. Without jet reading the books, I will just thank JJ Semple for hes sharing and concreatisising, from own experience, the methods in the text. I think such work is realy beneficial to us all that are intereted in this kind of spiritual path. Thanks. F D

I think you can do it either way. If you find a good way to open the microcosmic orbit you can work with it together with for example the methods discussed here. There no need to hurry so perhaps to start with this sugested practises is the better way. I have had a yoga group with four woman practisisn with me. We did follow Eric Stevens Yudeloves book "100 days to better health, good sex and long life". It starts with the six healing sounds, the 8 brocades and the inner smile, and in the mean time prepare for onoening the microcosmic orbit. The practises in that book is well ballanced and they work from a hollistical perspective. Perhaps that is the way for you to start. According to Mantak Chia it is the best introduction to taoist yoga. A recomendation. But of course a teacher is the best combination. F D

hello In my system the universal tao we start with the micro cosmic orbit, after learning some brething perhaps. So to me it sounds to be a good idea to start for you. Why not find a teacher? F D

I meiled them a question about it and will tell you the answer as soon I got it! It could be that he is involved with the new site beacase it seems to be wery new. F D

FD

] Eva Wong "Holding yin, embracing yang" quote: The southern school of the complete reality school in taoism "... the body needs to be cultivated before the mind..." "...taught single and paired practise according to the needs of their students. This is probably beacase they both started taoist practise late in life and understood how paried practise could help people starting their practie late in life. ..." "...most of its practioners tended to be housholders who had raised families before studying the art of longevity. Having lost much generative energy over the years, this practioners need a quick way to replenish it. Sexual practise of paired practise allowed them to do exacly that." "...Once generative energy is plentyful the practiner will switch to teqniques of the single path." I think on the other hand that when you have reached a sertain stage of your practise it isn't anymore difficulte to not have sex. I have not reach such a high stage but I have lived as a celibate for about 8 years. It have sometimes been difficult sometimes easy, but I see that it is absolutely possible to do it. But I tend to like the ideas from the southern school, which I think suits most of us westernerns most, beacase we need to replenisch or generative energy, most of us. F D

Don't worry it takes time! I have come ower my porn addiction this year. It started when I had my illness and didn't have sex with woman anymore. I have been fighting it for years actually and are free now. I read something interesting about it. The addiction is related to the shame. It works that way on the transmittor substance level. The shame will make you more addicted to it paradoxically enough. Don't blame yourself! Have compassion to yourself even when doing things you want to stop. Reread my post about changes on this thread. Let the bad thing streangthen your willpower instead of blaming yourself and feel weak about that you gave after for the urge. Million of people using porn and the industry does everything to lure you into it. We easily go into the trap beacase we are predetermined to react on sexual stimuli. It is still not impossible to come ower it! But you will not do it emidiately. Perhaps you can increase the time periods without it. I put it as the first and most important point for you to change your condition. And it is realy important. You have already done the perhaps most important step to seek help here and other plaises. That is to realise and accept that there is a problem and to create a will to change it. Don't worry to much for things you do that is not the things you want to do. Instead focus this day on doiing another thing you want to do, and you will in time succed with your changes. I write what I feel for the moment and hope it helps you a litle. All good to you F D

Hello White tiger The thing is most men never will be a sage or an immortal, most will never practise spiritual practises at all. They are not even interested in spirituality and perhas doesn't even think it exists. Ohters are so into religion and the rituals there but doesn't understund that many of the rituals are empty in that sence that they not develope the person spiritual to any high level. Most men should prefer to have a greate sex experience with a white tigress even though perhaps getting a bit tired afterwards, for loosing some yang. A practioner on the otherhand might be aware of loosing yang and not let the tigress take any or just chare a litle. On the other hand on looking at practiners. There have been different scholls in taoism some say that celibacy is the only right way to go. Other schools uses dual cultivation to replenish therir energy. To start the practise in early years and not ever having had sex is the best practise according to many old taoist books, as least the ones I have read (not many). But if you have been involved in ordinary sex and you have been ejaculating for a while or severar years, then you can't reach the higher levels without first replenish and revitalise your energies. This is done by dual cultivation. You are involved with dual cultivation to streanghteningn your Jing again. In the white tigress system the woman is involved with having green dragons beacase that is way more adapted to the need of how a woman should rejuvenate her Jing and much better than ordinary dual cultivation. After the energies have been rejuvenited she or he migth go into celibacy and just continue the practise of meditation alchemy and qigong by themselves. Many practises in the west have already loosed Jing before they start and they need to revitalise it before to be able to reach the higher states of the practises. They will not gain much from being in celibasy. Then the evolution of theire practises will be increadible slow. F D

Well, the bounding love should not be there, beacase it's only sex for a few times and not ment to be a long time relationship. Compssion is all that is needed. Perhaps somethat naivly, but if you have alot of compassion inside of you then you also do compasionate things. I don't think that he meen that men isn't wothy of compassion! That is to take an all to far conclusion accroding to my opinion. I do follow you here. I think that this also is a crusial point. Most of the men that have been with a white tigress and have had a real nice time with a forcful orgasm. They probably think it's worth the cost of loosing some yang energy. It is a question of how much energy does they realy loose. And how much does they realy gain. And aint most of the men realy happy to have a realy greate sex experince different than ohters in theire life. Isn't is nice to have real good sex with a woman that not want anything else from you than the sex and the energy. How is this comparable whit what most of the woman want from you. In comparison perhaps the white tigresses doesn't do so much harm after all. And they also do something good also. I like more and more what you are writing and you have in part helped me to undestund the question of if the green dragons are used in a wrong way or not. It seem to me that Hsi Lai have done a remarkable job to describe the practise for us. But as you say it is seen throuhg hes own spectacles. I believe quite much in the practise. It defenitly doesn't suit everybody. You have to remember that the practise is wery demanding with alot of exercises that should be done regularly. It is not either easy to be able to have all the green dragons or for the jade dragon to let the white tigress be with them without all to much jealousy. It seem to me that from all this discussions the books by Hsi Lai is not enough to realy pinpoint out if the practise with the green dragons is ok or not. I am changing my opinion over the year towards a more and more positive attitude to that sort of practises. It is also for me interesting to look through my own preconsived ideas and to see that the reality have much more into it than the things that seems to be obvious. What I am hoping for is that the debeloped practioners in the west will come out with complementary opinions and descriptions of the practise. Something like that seems to me to be of a greate importance and it will broden the understunding and perhaps the acceptance of the practise. I have also been wondering a completely different thing with the practise. If you are deeling with sexyual energy then some form of practise dealing with emotional imbalances would be necessarily. I haven't seen any such practises in the white tigress system. But I might not understund all of it jet or have not comprehensively grasped the content of all the practises jet. Perhaps fusion of the five elements is a good complement to the whtie tigress practises. There is also no description of how to mix this practise with other practises. That could be a importatn aspect also beacase we in the west seldom stick to one thing and like to mix things up with eachother, as far as I have seen. F D

Hello Eintein found out that the time isn't only third dimensional measurements betwean intervals. In hes special realativity theory he found out that. If subjects moves relative eachother. Then the time intervals for the same event is different if you are still or if you are looking into something that moves. The times goes in different speeds if you move or not relative someting else. In the general relativity he found out: That times goes at different speed if you are close to a heavy object than if you are far from it. He found out that if you describe the universe as having 3 dimension and one extra time dimension, then many thing in physics was possible to understund. The gravity for instance is a curce or bend in the 4D roomtime. Einsteins theores have shown extremly good connections with observable phenomenon in the world. The only drawback I know about is that the theory is difficult to combain with kvantum mechanics. So that the relativity theory doesn fit wery well in the universe but doesn't fit in the small subatomic space. Stephen Hawkins have been able to combine the two main theories in the special case of black holes. There are also attempths related to string theory that migth solve the problems, but then we are talking about 11 or 13 dimensions. One example on how to see that gravity and a curve in the 4D roomtime is the same is: Astronomers did find exactly the same galaxy at two places on the same distance at the side of a much closer galaxy. That closer galaxy have alot of gravity, that curves the universe or more righty that is the curve of the universe. What have happened is that the left picture of the far away galaxy has taken a path a bit to the left of the nearby galaxy but bended around the nearby galaxy. The other picture to the right have taken a path a bit to the right of the nearby galaxy and bended inwards also. So we see the same galaxy as two pictures at different places in the universe. To desribe the time as the forth dimension makes the phenomenon in the universe much more comprehensible than to just see it at different intervals in the 3D dimension. So Einstein figured out one part of how the universe looks like that non ever before had realised. Or standard wiew is still a Newtonian modell most of the time and some has realised that the Einsteininan modell of the universe is much more correct and are able to describe the things we actually observe in the universe. FD

Hello and welcome to taobums! I am a bit qurious about the Swedish institute, am from Sweden myself. Can you tell me something about it., please? Like where it is and were it comes from. F D

Hi One part of healing and I absolutely speak from my own experience is to not be to hard (hars?) on yourself. Forgivness and compassion to your own being is the key! So if you decide to stop be aware that changes of yourself migth take some times. If you decide that alcohol isn't good for you and want a total stop. Fine. If you manage a long time, fine. If you miss it some time and perhaps feel bad again, fine. If so, that you had a beer again and felt wery bad again, you have got a new message that it realy isn't good for you, if that is the case, and you can streangthen your will to not drink. And then perhaps manage a longer time next time. This is relevant for all types of changes, not only alcohole. Changes of people are like moving a huge oil taker, it take some time to get the boat to react and turn to the direction you want. But if you eagarly continue it will changes to the better. life is like playing music. A musician that plays wrong will adapt to that and perhaps adjust his play a litle bit. I mean when you live your life, things goes not in the right direction some times, and when you notice you can do some neccessarily adjustments to your attitides, behaviours or what ever needed. It's not a big deal, it's just to keep on trying to get the ballance. If not trying the signals get stronger, from the universe and your life, and you will perhaps have to make a bigger changes or adjustment for a while. I got perhaps a litle to complicated in this. It is a process of self acceptance and compassion and forgivness to yourself and your eventual foults that is the important thing. I think so anyway. Give yourself a real cup of forgivness to yourself today and feel the healing power of it! You are on the rigth track for your healing, that we all can feel that have read your threads. Good luck and best whishes to you F D

Her is something from the book white tigress green dragon I not quote Hsi Lai but take it from the book and use my own way of description of it. white tigress practises: Willow wais exercises A qigong form: kidneys spine waist sexual energy and some aerobics. Are streangthen Healing tigress exercises: several different forms with different purposes Qigong and meditation Streangthen the breaests ovaries sexual energy, the spine lessensing menstrual flow, anxiety and tension white tigress kung fu body exercises and self defence Eight immortals sword: gracefullness and fully developed atention Tigress fan dance Also a martial art Different hygienic regimens Herbal and dietary supplements Sexual practions Exibitionism green dragons encounters- oral sex for her restoration and transformation processes meditation after sexual encounters drawing in her orgasm transformational techniques That is taoist alchemy. 12 different methods is mentioned in the book I couldn't find the practises for men. I write later about them F D

The white tigress never manipulates the green dragons. In the system is quoting Hsi Lai "Therefore she takes responsibilty for her effect on men and never uses her beauty and power to manipulate or contend with men" Hello I have newly read the white tigress green dragon book by Hsi Lai About Love and sex. Quoting Hsi Lai "I feel that the white tigress teaching provide somthing very valuable to all relationships and human development-the negation of possisivness and jealously. Understanding this with the notion if two people realy are in love, then no matter the sexual encounter with the green dragons, the relationship will stay intact. Love is not sex and sex is not love. It is wonderful if the two melds, but they are not mutually exclusive." This was about marriage and green dragons. Comment on love and sex: There should not be a relationship like love between the white tigress and the green dragon. It is a matter totally based on sex and should not be a relationship that developes thingt bounds between the two of them. All rules conserning the meeting whith the green dragons are constucted in a way that hinder such bounds to develope. It should not be bounds. Instead it is based on wery intense sex a few times. The white tigress is treating the green dragon with onesty, compassion and submissiveness. She is polite and open to the green dragons needs. Another quote from Hsi Lais book! In this one he says things that I have been looking for but missed before when reading hes books. I did not know if the white tigress did chare here energy with the green dragon or not. If reading this we see that she share it and then it might be wery beneficial to the green dragon to have here yin energy. Even though she take some yang at the same time. First he writes about the ordinary marriage and what is good and bad with it and then "A Tigress hower show her vulnerability and makes cleare her depest intents. When a tigress desides to be with a certain green dragon, she mentally and physically comitts to be completely giving with her atention and energy during the time she is with that green dragon. Through her attire, behaviours and focus, she exercise selflessness and giving. Hence she learn how to turn her greed into charity." The more I read about the system the more I feel it not has so many drawbacks that I expected or thougth or had preconserned ideas about from the beginning. F D

Hello Perhaps the most easy start is to read Mantak Chias "Multi orgasmic man". Even though I not recomend you to practise this kind of stuf without a teacher and a genuin foundation in the qigong practises connected to the healing love practises. Find a teacher to practise this. It is realy heavy stuff that will change your life in a profound way and that will change your sex life and abilities dramatically. But they are advanced practises that might be wery dangerous if done in the wrong way. F D By the way the book the art of the bedchamber is a master piece and wery scholarly. It might not be the best book to start reading. It is quite heavy. Even though the introduction gives a good owerwiiew of the whole subject.

Hello Interesting questions. I have never practised falun gong, but I have read two or three books about it. It is a serious practise. The theory is mostly inspired from Buddism, but the practise is a combination of buddist and taoists practise. The organisation is secteristic with one top leader. That is something that I not like about it. The falun gong movement have often been in oposition to the leading class in China and there is alot of propaganda against it out there. I can't realy judge from my knowledge about it if it is a serious and complete practise. I guess it is so beacas it have been out there for a long time, several hundred years I think. It was long time ago I read the books. I think there have been some discussion about it here, but I can't find it either with only a quick look. F D

Hello I hope you find a way to deal with your problems. I am quite familiar with Mantak Chias work. what he suggests in hes books is that you clear our your emotional prpblems before you even start with hes methods. I will try to give you some advices from my point of wiew. Consentrate on this three at the first. If you not manage this three things try to get help from a professional. 1 Stop using porn or any sexual tantric method like Mantak Chias It will only make your emotional problems increase 2 Stop using all drugs (same) 3 Start heavy exercise regularly: Like jogging three times a week every week, following your streangth at the moment, without owerdoing it, without jogging to long. THEN 4 Get a good western therapist that your feel comfortable with. If you not feel comfortable with the therapist theire methods might not work, find another one emidiately. And after that, in this order 5 Eat good and healthy food regularly and all the time 6 Try to find a healer. Like NLP, Healing, Homeopathy Try first to find a good therapist and when you have managed that and started a good theraphy, try also some other methods that might complement your treatment. No effort needed here before you find a good therapist and managed the three first points. 7 Make shore you manage this things. - Manage to take care of your economic situation in a good and comfortable way - Make a good environment to live in by taking care of your home - Have good contact with some of your relatives and friends - Not have contact with friends that drain your energy or letting you use drugs After that starting this 8 Start some easy breathing into the dan tien for about 5 to 10 minutes a day. And perhaps some short iron shirt stances, 5 to 10 minutes a day Wait with any other energetic work untill you feel considerably better emotionally. Work only with a professional healer you like before that if wanting to go into energetic work. 9 When you feel emotionally better start to find a good teacher in qigong, yoga or other similar system. If you still want to practise such things. The most important thing is that you learn to take care of yourself physically and emotianionally before starting to practise spiritual practises. Its important for everybody but especially for you. This comes from my feeling of what is important for you. Stopping drugs and porn is the most important thing for you it will only mess things up further. Don't use your bad feelings as excuses for doing this. I guarantee you that it only will make you worse of in the long run. Staring exercising will help you to deal and clear out your emotional issues. If you start jogging it will help you to ground yourself and to get better self esteem. It will also help you to start new more healthy ways to take care of your life. To find a therapist that you have the possibility to start working with your emotinal situation is wery important for you. Nearly as important as stopping with porn and drugs. There is no need to stay with a bad therapist though. You will soon feel if you have come to one that is good for you or not. If you find the right person then try to stay with that person for as long as you need to and not stoping beacase some strong emotional issues might arrise from it. It is wery important for you that you start do things that ground you into the physical life. It is much more important for you to take care of your home than to sit and meditate for hours. Find the nice relatives you like and have regular contact with them is also for you wery important. All this make you more grounded in your real life. It willl also give you more self esteem and comfort with yourself. Don't do to much energetic work. It seems like you have done enogh of all this stuff without realy managed to take care of yourself. Not see this as a failure see is as the path your life has taken. Try something else now and see if that helpes you more. Newer give up try always to find the good things you need for the moment and for the long run. Get into yourself and at the bottom of yourself make shore you have an attitude that says I will manage to solve this no matter what happens. I will continue my healing process and continue surching for the good things for my life. Peace in your way F D

Hello. I know that Michael Winn early wanted to take away that part of the teaching from the fusion books, but didn't manage. I don't know about the later versions of it. I don't either know if it is part of taoism, but it sounds so to me. Have heard that it is a part of the later courses in kan and li. I think Michael Winn have a realy good concept for the fusion practise. Without knowing all of it. He has not only taken away things that belongs to later stages he has also added original theory to it. The theory of the five shens in the organs. (I think). That was taken away by Mantak Chia beacase he thought that it would be to complicated for the western mind. Perhaps it's a matter of time. What Mantak did was the right thing for that time, in the 80 ties. Much have happened since and know we are more eager to see the whole picture could more easily understund it. One riks with Mantak Chias material is always that it might be to detailed. You have to remember that many teqniques is only to help you in the beginning but might be dropped when you can do the things more easily on the right energetic level. F D