Mestena

Hey folks, It's been a long while since I've posted here, but I decided to come slinking back in to gather some advice about a situation I find myself in. Though I don't adhere to any particular religion or philosophy, when asked, I generally claim Taoist and Zen leanings. Well, I have been seeing a very wonderful, open-minded, philosophical man for some time now. We seem to be a perfect match in most ways, and can easily fill 10 hours with nonstop conversation. All is wonderful, but there's one hitch; his father is a fire-and-brimstone Baptist preacher, and his mother is deeply religious also. He wants to introduce them to me, but before even meeting them, his mother discovered that I lean in the direction of Eastern philosophy, and she GRILLED him about it. He gave me a heads up that I may encounter some heavy opposition and anger, though he said he will stand strong beside me and weather the storm. I have a solid meditation practice, so am not easily knocked off center, nor do I often catch myself in 'reaction' mode, or become defensive. However! That said, this could prove to be a very intense encounter. Can you guys think of some diplomatic words, and tactful responses, to the questions that are bound to be asked of me? Things that might appease, while also not giving my power away? All advice is accepted, and appreciated. Blessings.

Lots of good advice here. Thanks for the contributions. Regarding the reason I asked this question; It was part public opinion survey, and also, I am using you guys as a mirror a little bit here. It's helping me to find my bearing. As far as the 20 year old packaging goes, I'm not so sure. This guy has muscles developed where I didn't know men were supposed to have them. ;o) It's nice. I guess they're just not filled out well by 20. Sloppy Zhang: I am not terribly concerned with material stuff. I do like that he owns his own house, because it tells me that he has his ducks in a row and has 'settled' someplace, so would probably be a pretty stable guy to be around. I have spent the past two years removing most of the material stuff from my life...All that stuff that you never own, but that instead owns you. I am not particularly keen on the idea of collecting more stuff, especially not somebody else's stuff...And, this fellow is a butcher...He's not rich by any stretch, and his life is pretty simple and clutter free. I like that about him. And thank you CowTao! Your post made me grin.

Nope...No hiding me away from public scrutiny or wives he forgot to mention. I have been introduced to all of his friends and even his mother, whom I quickly made friends with. I have been pulled into his social circle and family with open arms, because, incidentally, we know many of the same people. I spend most of my social time with people around his age; my best friend is 53 years old. I have never really enjoyed the company of people my age, nor have I been able to find any sort of connection with them, because 'like, I don't like, party duuuuuuuuuuuude'. Maybe it's because I was homeschooled, so was never thrust into my peer group? There are no red flags, and I don't get the feeling that he's keeping anything from me, nor am I keeping things from him. He has had complete respect for me and nothing but chivalry and gentlemanly behavior...No pressure, no games, no manipulation...Just many long nights at the kitchen table over a glass of wine or a cup of tea, discussing politics, survival skills, the I-Ching, past mistakes, dreams, desires, the music that we both like to play...If I could find this in a 20 year old, I'd grab it in a heartbeat, but I don't think I ever will. There is a level of refinement and confidence in this man that I think only comes with years.

This guy is everything I have ever wanted in a man; he's smolderingly sexy, deep, philosophical, jack of all trades, good stable job, owns his own house, spiritually and politically compatible, well read and educated, extremely interesting, easy to talk to, chivalrous, kind, compassionate, sensitive, strong, decisive...The list goes on and on. I go to spend an hour with him, visiting, and it never fails to turn into 6 or 8 hours of conversation. I just can't get enough, and the energy exchange between us is very comfortable and VERY intense... I am 22; he is 49. My feelings for him are out in the open. We've discussed it, and it's mutual.

Greetings all, I am looking to start a dialogue regarding age differences in romantic situations. I have recently found myself very attracted to a man quite a bit older than myself (27 years older), and thought I'd throw this one out there for comment. What are your views? What would you do? What can you tell me about the ramifications? Much love, Mestena

Wudangspirit: I have worked for his parents for about 2 years now, and when he and I split up, I kept my job. It was a bit uncomfortable, but jobs are very scarce here and I couldn't afford to be unemployed for any length of time, so I stayed on. I was able to ask his father about him every now and then, which is how I knew what was going on. Nectar: The type of therapy he has been attending is called Neurofeedback. When I first heard about it's effectiveness, I was very skeptical, as I have had some training in Gestalt talk therapy and Jungian analysis...Talk therapy which takes YEARS. I thought there could be no such thing as a silver bullet for the unbalanced psyche, but I have become convinced. In Neurofeedback therapy, you learn how to actually change the chemistry of your own brain, connect neural pathways that are low functioning, and calm areas of the brain that are overactive. It's extremely powerful, and quick. Generally a client needs only 20 hours of neurofeedback to become self sustaining and leave the therapist. There are a whole host of issues that can be resolved with this therapy, including PTSD. They have taken soldiers with extreme cases of PTSD and in as little as 2 or 3 sessions, all symptoms and manifestations of the disorder disappear and never come back, and that person is able to function normally in society. It is almost like magic. In the case of my partner, one of his most serious issues was continuous childhood bond breaks, which resulted in his not being able to bond or empathize as an adult very well. This is an emotional issue, but more importantly, it is a neurological issue, and has been addressed in his therapy with outstanding results. He also had parts of his brain that were overactive and firing too fast/too often, which resulted in his having racing thoughts, inability to sleep, bouts of fear/paranoia, inability to control sexual urges, binge drinking, bi-polar swings, impulsiveness etc etc. These were the issues that broke us up originally, and also the state of mind he was in when he met that woman. I was sure at that time that he would never change, as it was a chemical imbalance and couldn't be fixed by even the most talented talk therapist or, god forbid, medication. That's why I left and told him it was over for good. But then, he began seeing this therapist and it all changed, very rapidly and very obviously. The issues are GONE...Not hidden, not repressed, not covered up for my benefit, but GONE...totally...The guy is quiet, introspective, centered, in control, thinking clearly...All the parts of him that I fell in love with are still there, maybe even more dominant now, but the other stuff has disappeared. He has had so far about 18 hours of Neurofeedback, and his therapist said that a few more sessions and he will be finished, and that it requires no renewal sessions in the future. The changes in brain function are permanant, and there is no chance of a backslide. fiveelementtao: Oh you are so correct in that statement...It is very hard for me to step back when someone I care about is going through 'stuff'. I tend to forget that I'm part of the equation and instead worry about helping the other person through, while sacrificing myself emotionally. The reason I have taken so much of this on and gotten so involved is that I am very afraid. I am afraid that I am not a big enough person to love that child without resentment. Though I can rationally convince myself that the child is not at fault in this, my emotions are a different story. It feels like the existence of this child would be a constant reminder of a very painful period in my life, and a period in my partner's life that we both want to leave in the past. I want to be with him, but I don't know that I could be with him, along with another woman, and a child that's not mine. I don't know that I have that kind of strength. I like to think I do, and that I could forgive and love without condition in that situation, but I don't know that for sure. I just don't want this other woman to have any bearing on my decisions in this relationship. It shouldn't be about her, it should be about my partner and I and whether we want to build a future together. She was a 10 minute mistake, he and I have been together for years, yet her presence might determine the outcome of this relationship? That is something I have a hard time accepting. I do love him, but I'm afraid I might hurt him by not being able to be totally supportive here...On the other hand, I know that the universe never sends me a lesson that I'm not prepared to handle, and that since I am having this experience, it must be in my life script to do so. I don't believe that anything happens without a purpose, but that doesn't stop me from swimming against the current sometimes when I am too afraid of being carried away.

Wudangspirit: When we broke up, it was over...OVER over...Never want to speak to you again, changed my phone number kind of over. I had absolutely no intention of being involved with him again, and I made that crystal clear to him. When he acted as he did, it was with the knowledge that he'd never see me again, and that his actions would never affect me. Well, things changed. During our separation, I watched as he found an ambition that he had never had before...He became very spiritual, he got himself into three-times-per-week counseling to work through some very heavy childhood issues that he was carrying around (which had been our biggest stumbling block and the reason for our separation), he began training in martial arts, which he had always talked about but never found the time for. I spoke to his therapist before I made my first contact with him (apparently he had told her that if I ever called, she could speak to me), and she gave me a glowing report regarding his emotional progress. She said that she honestly felt that they could discontinue their sessions soon, that he was a dramatically different person, and that he had resolved the biggest issues that were impeding his life. Since I've been involved with him again, I have found this to be absolutely true. The decision he made to have that one-nighter happened when he was in a very different place mentally and emotionally. There has been alot of growth. Deepbluesea: The friends he was hanging out with, unfortunately, were some of my old friends from school that I had introduced him to a few months before we broke up, because he didn't have many male friends. I thought it would be good if he spent some time with the guys from time to time, because he said that he felt male companionship was missing from his life, and he had a hard time finding men to befriend because he worked in a female-dominated job. I didn't think that my old friends would make the suggestions that they made...Ouch! I guess men stick together before thinking about a female friend's feelings, right? This girl is the sister of a girl I knew briefly, that spent some time with this group of guys. Steve f: Thank you for your words. You are right in saying that I don't need him for fulfillment or happiness. I learned that during our separation, and had a wonderful time on my own. My life has become quite full, and I've picked up many things that I had wanted to do for some time, but never seemed to find time to do. I decided that I wanted him to be around again BECAUSE I felt fulfilled and happy and wanted to share that with the man I loved, and still love, perhaps even more deeply now. Lino: The timeline he has given me is true...I've asked around and have been told by a few people that know her and her family that she was in town when my guy says they were together, and that the very next day after the fling, she went back to her hometown 400 miles away and has not come back. She went back to her ex and the father of her other child. I've done my fact checking and he has been completely honest here. Biff: Ouch, guy! Come on now...Speak your mind, but leave the graphic details out. I love this man and it HURTS to get those mental images. As far as her level of responsibility, there is very little in sight. I am not simply trusting the word of my partner on this; I have heard voice mails and read emails from her where she flat out refused to take prenatal vitamins at my partner's urging, she refused to cut back on her tobacco use even a little because, "I already had one miscarriage, why even bother trying to protect this one?", and she has alluded to continued drug use while pregnant. She is the woman that leaves her young child in an idling car in the bar parking lot for four hours... Regarding the 'keep it or kill it' comment; he doesn't want custody...He doesn't want the child at all, but if it's proven that it is his and she refuses to abort the pregnancy, effectively sticking him with this, he will take the responsibility that he needs to take, pay his child support, and be actively involved in the child's life, or take it away from her if the situation requires. He was talking about the possibility of getting custody, because judging by the way she treats her other child (neglect and abuse), she has no business raising another one. Neither he, nor I, would want to subject any child to her parenting practices from what I understand about them. She makes a habit of leaving her child with strangers while she goes out to party, she thinks that corporal punishment is necessary and desired, and she has a VERY quick and explosive temper. However, it is almost impossible for the father to get custody in this state. And no, I don't have much sympathy for this woman. Judging by her words and actions, she doesn't really 'want' this baby...She wants a free ride, financial support, and CONTROL, and if she has to have this child to get it, by god, that's what she'll do. She wants someone to support her and her previous child, because apparently that daddy is falling down on the job. She won't get a job, because she "doesn't want to", but she DOES want my partner to provide financial support and she does want her friends to feed her and shelter her and pay her bills for her. She's seeing money signs here, not motherly love...Guaranteed. Talk about calling the whaaaaaaaaaaambulance...Whaaaah...I have responsibilities but I JUST DON'T want to get a job....I'd rather sit on the couch, smoke pot all day, and let this guy take care of me and my children... And, I have his negative STD test in hand. He's scheduled for another in a few weeks, and we're using protection until at least 6 months have passed. I'm in love, but not in denial. ____________________________________________________________________ So, the latest update is this: I called around and spoke to a few OB/GYN's today, who were all in agreement that the chances of this baby being his are slim to none, especially in light of her due date being declared to be June 12, which would mean a September 19th conception...On September 19th she was 400 miles away, with the father of her other child, who she has admittedly been sleeping with. The advice I was given was that he should take NO responsibility in this until she proves that he has some, which doesn't seem to be very likely. He called her today and told her that until she presented him with a paternity test, he would have no more involvement with the situation or with her. Burden of proof is on her. He told her that she could go get an in-utero paternity test as early as 6 weeks into the pregnancy, and that if she did, and it was proven to be his child, he'd take over the doctor's bills and begin his support. Well, she very angrily refused to take that test, though it is pretty safe. Now, if she was sure it was his, and knew she could prove it, wouldn't she simply get tested immediately and put the results in his hand instead of getting defensive, launching an attack on him (and ME!!!), and hanging up on him, which is what she did?

Many good points to consider...Thanks for the advice. The situation is this now; The due date doesn't add up. She claims she conceived this child, with my partner, on a day when she was menstruating. I've spoken to a couple of fertility specialists who all agreed that though not impossible, it is VERY unlikely for conception to occur at that time, and that if conception does occur, it is due to a very rare medical condition that would make it almost impossible for her to carry to full term. However, in the time frame that she would have been fertile (10 to 14 days after her menstrual cycle), apparently she was back in bed with her ex-boyfriend, but swears it can't be his child. Also, so far she has conveniently 'forgotten' or missed her ultrasound appointments, which would set a pretty solid conception date. Also, when my partner told her that he and I were speaking again and trying to work our relationship out, she came unglued, screamed at him that he was a "lunatic to be with me" and has no right to be speaking with me again. My instincts scream opportunism, as she is homeless and jobless, and my partner is affluent and generally keeps his life together. Also, her doctor just announced that the due date is June 12, which means she's only 4 weeks along. My partner was with her over 2 months ago. It can't be his. As far as finding an out in Taoism, I'm not sure what you mean by this. It is true that I am angry and hurt in this situation, but I don't feel that being a spiritual person or a student of Taoism makes one immune to emotion in a situation like this. I am experiencing many strong emotions right now, and I embrace that and have been actively looking for the personal lessons being provided for me here. I am not looking for an out; simply spiritual and emotional support from a group that I felt would lend it with little or no judgement, and perhaps give me some words of wisdom to help me find a more spiritual center in this storm. I feel that I have opportunities here to learn about loving unconditionally, letting go of judgement, trusting the Tao, and living in the moment. These lessons are not coming easily to me right now, however, and I thought that maybe someone here could give me a signpost or two to send me in that direction. I have received that, and I appreciate it. I feel much more stillness in the situation. Blessings, Mestena

Thank you all for your advice and insights... I did a reading with the I-Ching this afternoon, regarding this matter. The changing line said "The husband leaves the mother and does not return, the mother carries a child but does not bring it forth." I have never used the I-Ching for future predictions, but that seems straight forward to me. The hexagram was 53, Gradual Advance, with the 3rd line changing.

Hello all, I'm new to this board, but have been studying Taoism for years. I am currently dealing with a situation that is causing me much pain. I have been in love with a man for a few years, and we were engaged. However, this Summer we had some relationship issues that resulted in our breaking up and both of us were hurt pretty deeply. I was sure at the time that I never wanted to see him again, and made that very clear to him. We have been apart for about 3 months, and during our separation, we both worked to learn more about ourselves. He went to a very good, progressive therapist, who has also taught him transcendental meditation, and apparently he has made great strides in understanding himself mentally and emotionally. He is a very different, much more focused and grounded person these days. I, on the other hand, really threw myself into my spiritual practices and have learned alot about myself also. We are now working to heal the hurts we have experienced, and figure out how to make our relationship work again. Things are going very well, and we're both very happy, once again discussing having a future together and having a family. Here's the issue; While we were separated, his friends decided that they were going to make it their mission to get him over me and our relationship. So, he went out with his buddies one night, had some drinks, was introduced to a woman that his friends knew, and he had a one night stand. The contraception failed and she is now pregnant and refuses to consider an abortion, and has even begun speaking like she expects my partner to be in a relationship with her and be a parent with her. This is not going to happen. He has no desire to even see her again, much less raise a family with her. He hopes that she will make the decision to end the pregnancy, as she is not taking care of her health at all, doesn't seem to care that she's pregnant, and already has one young child that she neglects. He is, however, willing to raise the child himself if he can get custody (which is unlikely), or to take the responsibility and be a present father for that child with as little involvement with the mother as possible. I respect that, but the fact remains that it was a terrible mishap (in his words) and that the child will come into the world under a very difficult set of circumstances for all involved. I am very hurt by all of this, and know that my decision to be involved with the man I have loved for years will now require that I live with the results of his drunken decision for the rest of my life with him. I like to think that I am conscious enough to love any child without conditions, and not carry resentment toward a child that is without fault in the situation, but this is already proving to be VERY difficult for me. I am angry, I am hurt, and I am wondering how I will ever be able to be fully supportive of his being involved in this child's life. Already the mother is making attempts to get between he and I, and sabotage our relationship. I fear that this will never stop. What would you do? Much thanks for any insight, Mestena

Hey all, I've arrived at this board by referral from the Tea House board. I have come to ask for advice about a difficult situation I have found myself in, which I will post on the main discussion board. I have been studying Taoism for many years (maybe all my life?). I was raised with the Taoist philosophy, but didn't really begin to look deeply into it until about 12 years ago, and have been enthralled since. Looking forward to your insights. Blessings, Mestena