C T

Here is a little story. Its not a koan i'm sorry. But its a good tale nonetheless... Its called A BUDDHA.

In Tokyo in the Meiji era there lived two prominent teachers of opposite characteristics. One, Unsho, an instructor in Shingon, kept Buddha's precepts scrupulously. He never drank intoxicants, nor did he eat after 11am each day. The other teacher, Tanzan, a professor of philosophy at the Imperial University, never observed the precepts. Whenever he felt like eating, he ate, and when he was sleepy during the daytime, he slept without giving it a second thought.

One day Unsho visited Tanzan, who was sipping some wine at the time, not even a drop of which is supposed to touch the tongue of a religious Buddhist.

"Hello brother," Tanzan greeted Unsho. "Wont you have a drink with me?"

"I never drink!" exclaimed Unsho solemnly.

"One who does not drink is not even human," declared Tanzan.

"Do you mean to call me inhuman just because I do not indulge intoxicants!" exclaimed Unsho in anger. "Then if I am not human, what am I?"

"A Buddha, of course," Tanzan replied, without hesitation.

.....................................................................................................

Here's another one. NOTHING EXISTS...

Yamaoka Tesshu, as a young student of Zen, visited one Roshi after another. He called upon Dukuon of Shokuko.

Desiring to show off his attainment, he said, "The mind, sentient beings, and even Buddha, after all do not exist. The true nature of phenomena is emptiness! There is no realization, no delusion, no superiority, and no mediocrity. There is no giving, and nothing to be received."

Dukuon, who was smoking quietly, said nothing. Suddenly, he gave Yamaoka a big whack with his bamboo pipe! Shocked and infuriated, he demanded to know why Dukuon hit him.

"If nothing exists, where is the source of that pain and anger?" asked Dukuon, still smoking away quietly.

O.K. You have just met someone who is interested in you. The conversation comes around to religion/ spiritual beliefs. You state that you are a Taoist. You see a puzzled look and maybe an eye roll on that person's face as they back away from you. How do you explain Taoism without:

 

a. Not totally alienating them with esoteric terms

 

b. Not making it sound like some new- age hokey pokey cult

 

c. Going off on a long lecture of Taoist practices, ideals and philosophies

 

I have attempted this on several occasions, but usually end up violating one of the above. Just wondering how you all approach the question.

Master basic selling skills...

Whenever possible, ask open-ended questions to incite curiosity. Questions that a person would answer with a 'yes' or 'no' usually give rise to awkward silences.

Create relevant opportunities for the the other person to draw upon their own life experiences, and how your philosophy can be reflected from their perspective - not yours.

In any conversation, as in any sales pitch, make the other person, in those few minutes, the most *important* person in the world. If you can succeed in doing this, you can 'sell' anything, even combs to monks!

Everybody likes to hear their own names. Makes them feel important. Repeat it as often as you possibly can in a conversation. Addressing them by name, ask them how comfortable they are with (subject). Gauge body language. When their names are used often enough (if you are sitting across from one another), you will notice the other person will start to lean forward very subtly at first, and then a little more each time you make them feel like they are the *star*, and not you.

Be the best listener ever.

These are just simple guidelines. Hope you can find them helpful in simple ways..

Thank you. Be well.

The English Zen monk asked his Japanese counterpart, "Why are you so happy ALL the time, even in your sleep you have this big smile of contentment on your face. What's your secret?".. to which the reply was, "Me no mind, me no mind, you no mind too...hahahahaha..!!".

I think two threads might be good, because I'm reluctant to post my thoughts in a thread where I am obviously the ignorant neophyte. I respect authority and experience and knowledge.

 

In this thread I am more casual. My two cents--I'm a witch, and old school witches don't believe in the five elements, they believe in four: earth, fire, air and water. Kundalini things are a combination of air and water. Too much of any one thing leads to a life out of balance, and the sort of witch I am is all about balance, about reaching equilibrium. Someone with a lot of earth and fire in their chart might benefit from limiting food and spending a lot of time in meditation, but typically it's the people who already have a lot of water in their charts who are drawn to pay for a two-week retreat or whatever. So they take their already out of balance life and throw it more out of balance.

 

To balance out kundalini practice (i.e., air and water) I think it's important to engage in earthy and fiery activities--earthy being focusing on the body and the world of the senses, Nature and material things, and fiery being engaging in physical activity, moving the body.

 

I also believe gurus are good for some people and bad for others. They are bad for me; it is all too easy for me to give myself over to someone else completely. It is best for me to find my own way, carefully. I do try to stay informed and ask advice, but ultimately I must find my own way. I am also helped by being very earthy by nature--this keeps me grounded.

Yes, being grounded is crucial in the avoidance of *spiritual* psychosis.

Tree-huggers for example, have very kind hearts by nature, lovely individuals most of them. If they were more grounded, it would be better for the trees, i think. On the other hand, people who spend too much time in front of their Macs ought to go hug more trees!! So off i go... to balance!

Thanks for the post, Witch. Tis nice to meet you

Speaking of Wing Chun/push hands, any one heard or trained with Gary Lam before? I was informed by a Wing Chun sifu from Texas that he is one of the best there is in the States. There are a good number of his videos on youtube for those interested.

Cheers!

Hehehe. No, I didn't think it was directed at our exchanges. I don't fit in that basket you described.

 

Yes, it is good to state our opinions from time to time. (Of course, you and I have never had a problem with doing that. Hehehe.)

 

Yes, I will try to be good. I'm going to a Bluegrass Festival today so I need be good during the drive there and back and the festival grounds accept only good behavior (which is one of the reasons I enjoy going to them).

 

You be good as well

 

Peace & Love!

Wow, you lucky son of a gun!

Wishing you the bestest day ever MH.. Have a fun day, and let us know how it goes?

Cheers to fizzy colas!! hehe

Take care!

So the bird in the cage has found security and freedom from fear.

 

But is it 'Happy'?

 

Peace & Love!

A bird in a cage is nothing more than a bird in a cage. Security is a false projection. To me, the attempt to project the cage as some kind of security is like trying to name a rose differently. Asking if the bird is happy shows non-acceptance of reality, the fact that its in a cage, and just be immersed with that reality. No need for happiness, no need for security..just be. That, i think, is the spirit of true warrior-ship on the quest for emancipation.

Just Be-ing sounds simple. Needs to be tested anyhow. Thats why in ancient China, some MA student beginners are asked to do nothing for 3 years except to train in standing on the spot for hours each day. That is an example of a true test of Be-ing. As one teacher friend of mine put it, "There is no such thing as an expert. There is only 'getting used to'..".

Non-acceptance is the root-cause of all projected dis-ease and dis-ability of mankind, imo.

Peace!

Truth is that this how masters instruct their students: they give them a koan and ask them to go while pondering on it. Follow this advice. I did the same after reading the Diamond Sutra when I first got started in the spiritual path. It was like a new world opening right in front of him, and then I realized that I needed to meditate on my little discovery.

 

Go and meditate on this, CowTao:

 

What was your face like before we were born?

 

Don't come back until you find the answer!

 

We need more stuff like this in this forum instead of chatting over and over the same stuff that is not really helping us progress in the spiritual path. We have become lazy "monks"!

 

More spiritual insight and less blabbler.

Hi Chogori,

Lazy monks indeed!

Thank you for the reminder - i will try to practice this with much diligence!

I agree - good *stuff* are very hard to come by these days...

You have a pretty unique name btw - does it mean anything?

I wanted to repeat this but I didn't want it to appear that I was pointing to CowTao.

 

Peace & Love!

Ha!

 

"There are no questions that are not created by the mind of man. Just 'be'."

 

Peace & Love!

God bless little innuendos and subtle hint-droppings MH! hehehe

Its funny sometimes how ridiculous it can get, when you read someone's comment, and are slightly intrigued by their slant/take on things, and then pose them a question, and suddenly they assume the *teacher* role, thinking that the questioner is asking for advice and answers! Nonetheless its all good i guess..

Each time i get responses where i feel as though this 'i' was being talked down to, it kinda rubs me the wrong way, and if not for being mindful, i could easily have reacted with some smart remarks/comments, but what the heck, what does it achieve eh? I mean, all you want is to know whats in a person's thoughts, right?? And all they can offer back is some advice that are found in basic topical literature.. and it does not help either to learn afterwards that these same individuals actually portray themselves to be some kind of spiritual adviser/teacher!! Wooo weee... nothing worse than cloaking oneself in *spiritual* garments, looking all nice and cool outside, while the pride and arrogance are so apparently crude - bare for all to see. Such is life.

Btw, this is not in reference to any of our exchanges, just to be clear! Just airing my mind a bit here!

You be good my friend!

I don't remember Gautama Buddha discussing his? If I Buddha didn't why should I be different?

 

When asked about what enlightenment was: he said the cessation of suffering. I would say that is the awakening to a great reality most of us never perceive because we are INSIDE.

What will help you trascend the illusion is acquiring what is called "zhi gnas" (peaceful abiding) and then you will encounter "lhag thong"; that is, the transcendent insight which is beyond conceptualised thoughts.

 

You tap into it "lhag thong" by practicing deep meditation in a very quiet and relaxed environment away from the hassles of the world.

Hmm thanks for the reply DC. Short and sweet, but gained nothing. Thats ok. I suppose since Buddha did not discuss it, you too, chose not to. Namaste!

SHIVOHAM - Manish Vyas

NAMO RATNA TRAYA - Ani Choying Drolma (Recommended for doing healing practices)

MEDICINE BUDDHA MANTRA - For healing work as well.

HEART SUTRA CHANTING posted by theverygentlegiant (for those who like deep chanting)

All Snatam Kaur's music is transcendental, so worth listening imo..

VAS - Sunyata (a couple of very good tracks here)

*All the above can be found on Youtube.

Abida Parveen. Absolutely essential.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IH8BgubvXWM

Thanks! Really good..

Irony is the gateway to higher planes of experience.

...and funny guys get to walk through first, always!

Greetings..

 

 

Hi CowTao: 'Creative intention', has multiple implications.. as i used it, it was to imply that many folks try to 'intend' creation.. this is like choosing a path, creativity is diminished by the scope of the intention.. another implication, wiser i think, is the 'intention' to be mindlessly mindful (still and present) as creation unfolds spontaneously.. this perspective implies the 'creative intention' is to let creation reveal itself, as opposed to 'crafting' it.. the classic examples that come to mind are liberally sprinkled throughout this forum: Taoist perspective vs. Buddhist perspective.. Buddhists have a fairly rigid system to reach a predefined 'state'.. Taoists tend to believe that 'state' is what we already are, we simply need to 'pay attention', mindlessly..

 

When i am asked of the highest benefit of 'my' Taiji journey, i will answer: 'Stillness in Motion', that after enough training and discipline at the forms and fighting, i can function without 'thought'.. i learn to trust the ever-present unfolding creation and the being i have become.. i have learned that the creation and the being will naturally form a flowing, mutually interdependent, and symbiotically beneficial relationship.. i have found that if i 'try' to manipulate this natural symbiosis there are consequences less beneficial and potentially harmful.. Taiji is not an intentional path to the 'state', the 'state' is simply a natural by-product.. from the practice of Taiji where we mindlessly move and energy follows our 'attention' (not 'intention').. we can carry that practice into Life at large..

 

"Yi (mind) leads Qi (energy)", is a highly cultivated aspect of Taiji, but.. the mind is in an operative mode and therefore there is a certain separation between the 'Now' and our mind's operative response to the 'Now'.. at an even higher level of cultivation, "mind" represents 'attention'.. where we are quietly attentive our energy is naturally focused.. as events unfold, there is no mental activation, no evaluation, no 'leading' of energy.. it is already there in the stillness of your attention, in the being you have become, it is your 'nature'.. not mind-play or ritual..

 

I hope this helps a bit.. Be well..

Once in a while, on a good day, one comes across a little gem of a perspective. This is mine, today. Words that are put together with thoughtfulness based on personal experience and reflection. Well done TJL. Thank you.

I have to say though, speaking for myself of course, that the practice(no specifics needed) found within Buddhism, when applied correctly, actually leads one beyond rigidity and non-rigidity, hence to assume that there is a predefined state to attain is a slight misconception. One could say it reveals the Original Ground of Being, to reconnect with what was inherently there already. So any movement of thought or action, even intent for that matter, moves one away from this natural state, and gives rise to fabrication, be it conceptual or otherwise. Even this description is just the finger pointing, its not the moon. One can rest silently in this primordial state of pure awareness, but it cannot be described. Any attempt to do so sets the rippling effect in motion, and in the same context, this is what *catches* one to create karma, just like ripples moving in ever-widening circles. One intent leads to two thoughts leading to three actions and so on (just an analogy). I hope you can at least get a little *insight* behind all these words.

Apologies for the unnecessarily long reply. A short one would have just read: and thank you..

I like what you are trying to do and agree with it. I don't want your video to be weak, but you have a tremendous uphill battle here. (Since I have been reading Chapter 1 twice a day of the Tao Te Ching, I also think you might want to be a little careful in "pushing an agenda." (Which I am doing at this moment).

 

I think that the biggest problem with your argument is that it comes across as, "Only I know the best way, my way is the only true way" etc. Its precocious, judgmental, very Nancy Reagan. Like I said I agree with you but that it what it sounds like to me.

 

Secondarily, you have a problem that even with recreational drug use, one can catch glimpses of the infinite. I tried to go a little further, with a more ritual approach, but never achieved anything more (while the rest of my friends partied, haha). So anyone that has caught a glimpse of the infinite thinks that with a little more product, with a little more time, "I can get there." it didn't work for me, but in the end you have people like me that aren't so interested in drugs anymore, but feel like to some extent, that they wouldn't be interested in the spiritual side of things now without that previous (albeit recreational) glimpse.

 

Why don't you make another sword video. You can have two opposing camps. In one you have someone training and meditating and in the other they are partying and eating acid. Both in their own ways can discuss "the infinite" in their own terms. Then you can have the sword battle, where the guy that meditated lops off the head of the acid eater in an instant -- head falls to ground after being supported momentarily by the geyser of blood bursting out of the neck. Old school shit. And then the group of acid eaters say, "Whoa dude, that was way cool, I want to go to that school."

Nice post! The last para was a rocker!!

yeah Joeblast is correct -- this is Isothermic Ionization -- read my Hempel Effect post for the underlying PRINCIPLES -- and ideally true meditation means you don't even feel the body because it's so full with electromagnetic fields -- nirvikalpa samadhi or in Taoism it's just called the "Emptiness." It's the most "advanced" state of meditation yet it's only the BEGINNING for true meditation (be it astral travel or deeper healing, etc.).

 

So all this stuff on taobums is just beginner joke fun -- about body positions and about conceptual philosophy, etc. Real masters don't have the TIME for all this writing because the spiritual and the mundane do not mix. The modern practitioners fall back into the mundane reality because we live in such evil times -- any real energy developed gets sucked back into other peoples' lower chakras for their evil use. haha.

 

http://springforestqigong.com -- Chunyi Lin went 49 days in full-lotus non-stop!! NO SLEEP, NO WATER, NO FOOD.

 

So that's the real deal -- he did this on the mountain that is the foundation for Taoism in China -- with Master Zhang and it's considered part of Tibet.

 

http://www.qigongmaster.com/articles1.htm

Hey Drew,

Dont mean to spoil the fun, but I think the Zen Buddhists got something going when they said that every thought that arises in the mind has its seed in conceptuality - every single thought. Even those that make us think what the REAL DEAL is.. People are so easily distracted with forms nowadays. No matter how great the achievements or levels of attainment, there is still decay and death. Even the Supreme Ones have to pass away.

You think 49 days in full meditative absorption with all the works is the real deal? Man, there are some yogis up in the Himalayas who can do these for years, with only a loin cloth for company!! (Read 'Autobiography of A Yogi'). You can point a camera at their physical appearance and *shoot* but when the picture comes out, their form does not show. Even then, these light beings still have subtle defilements. So dont be so gullible.

Train the mind. Train the mind. This the foundation for THE real deal, which is deal-less, meaning it transcends all forms. When the mind is trained, the body follows. Hence conceptual philosophy has its place. There is some truth in the saying, "Its all in the mind"!

Be good!

Wishing you a very happy birthday DH!

In my opinion, enlightenment cannot be discussed, it needs to be experienced. How can you experience what happens outside a dream when you are dreaming? Since this small fraction of the universe we are all stuck in is an illusion, a dream-state like many others which make up what Buddhism calls Samsara.

Hello DC!

Just a couple of questions regarding your observation above:

1) Are you saying that the experience of Enlightenment (if there is such a thing) cannot be discussed? At all?

Why? *Jon Doe* just got a glimpse of what profound wakefulness is - Are you saying its wrong to verbalize his experience? This is a curious thought..

2) Since we are all stuck in illusion, does this mean whatever we experience is also experienced within this illusion? Is it possible to remove oneself from this illusion? If yes, what do you think can help one towards awakening from the dream?

Your thoughts would be appreciated. _/\_

Regards.

my guide and my friend

unknown and invisible

and some way about

and some way about

they know its the long road home

in praise of the Om

Exactly, Cosmic Essence is just a concept. Remember when I said we must be careful how we name experiences? I don't mind if you called one of your experiences the "cosmic essence", but I do mind if you turn around and assign properties to this experience based on what you've chosen to call it! (cosmic-essenceness) If I have an experience that subjectively seems like some kind of cosmic essence to me, I'd prefer calling it experience X with such and such properties that APPEARS TO BE the cosmic essence. This is a label I am creating to describe my experience. The experience arose due to it's own causes, it isn't going to magically conform to any prototypical ideals I assign to it.

Hey there Nac! Good to see you managed to get some internet time - thought we wont hear from you for a couple of days!

For my own practice, i just call the whatever the Nondescript. It works for me, with the understanding it is yet another label, of course. Just another ripple on the surface of conceptual thought!

Regards!

Well, my truck was still there and "I" am real once again.

 

BTW We cannot totally escape dualistic thinking because that is the way our brain works. (That is, unless you become brain-dead.)

 

Peace & Love!

Hey MH,

Tis great to know your truck is still around!! Although it may come as some kind of surprise to realize the truck you saw just now and that which you saw a few hours ago is already a different truck. Even though to the untrained eye, the dualistic eye, it will still look the same.

When the mind is still, the need to *escape* any concepts, conditions and limiting labels becomes thoroughly trivial, even unnecessary. The still mind is not a dead mind. On the contrary, it is the truly *alive* mind, the Original Mind, the awakened mind, one that becomes mirror-like, and whatever arises in such a mind does not leave any more imprints. Of course these are still concepts, but the mind can be stilled, that's beyond doubt.

A still mind is likened to a lake that is completely undisturbed. In this way, whatever is reflected by the lake is pristine and exact. The mind is the same. Its original wakeful state is stillness, both on the surface and below it. Thoughts arise and the stillness is disturbed. But the underlying nature, that which is below the surface, remains still. It is this deeper, original nature that the practice of meditation can point one to, and gives meaning to this: "resting in original wakefulness, you can watch and engage the world fully, without any attachment, fear, guilt and aversions". I think there is a similar view in Taoism, but i stand to be corrected.

So your observation above does not work for me sorry.

Regards.

Greetings..

Hi CowTao: It sounds like that person had a glimpse of Clarity, then.. told themself a really 'cool' story about it.. the Clarity is fairly good, IMO.. they just don't recognized that the 'I' is nothing less than the Consciousness itself.. it is BOTH Experience AND Experiencer.. it is as described in the post, and it is individually intimate and real, 'simultaneously'.. this is the inescapable mystery. People do what people do, they pick sides.. they choose the perspective they favor, for whatever reason they choose.. "IF" i were to find a way to justify non-duality (but, i can't), it would be the 'relationship' between 'Oneness and Many-ness'..

 

Of course there are choosers, and doers, and thinkers, and such other individualizations as Consciousness experiences/manifests into existence.. this is not 'creative intention', it is pure allowing.. consciousness 'allowing' its 'nature' to reveal itself.. yes, Consciousness has its own 'nature', it is to 'experience'.. this is the point of no return, the realization that it ALL real, there's no side to pick.. the 'stories' become pointless.. "You" are liberated from the apparent contradiction.

 

Be well..

Thank you for the input TJL. Your perspective is worth reflecting upon. I definitely agree with the proposal that delusion arises with the habitual tendency to pick sides. From what i understand, this habit is that which binds one to the cyclical forces of what you may term as 'non-creative intentions', the way it perpetuates, which is the basis for the mind to operate continuously (even over many lifetimes) in a way where the deluded individual has no idea whatsoever of what it means to be free of extreme views, as in side-picking.

Perhaps you could expand a little on 'creative intention' and give some examples. That would clarify this post even more. I'd be grateful for this.

Cheers!

I agree.

 

I do agree the method exists; I don't agree that it has anything to do with Spirituality.

I too agree.

Silat is also widely practiced among the Malay people in Malaysia, where i grew up. My family used to have a Malay gardener who was a Silat exponent, and a very good one too. From him i learnt that there are esoteric and exoteric aspects to the art, and students of the former can access *help* from other realms, and are taught to do this by their respective lineage grandmasters. (I will not go into specifics here out of respect for other's beliefs). But i can say i have personally witness some demos by students of the esoteric schools, and it does boggle the mind! Definitely NOT for authentic spiritual cultivation.

As for this 'kuntau' thing i read that it originated in the north of peninsula Malaysia. Those intersted can google "Silat Kuntau Tekpi" and read about its history.

I have also witnessed different kinds of demonstrations that westerners would call "crazy shit" like *spiritual* kungfu etc. where practitioners day-fasted for 49 days, and after that, are taught to invoke different 'kungfu deities' like monkey god, kwan kung and a few others. Its all real, but again, nothing to do with the authentic spiritual paths.

So do not be too taken in by *forms*. Of course they exist. They fascinate the 'big boys' in the same way Toys R Us fascinate the kids. While some of these *forms* may indeed be quite neutral or harmless, in the long run, it may be detrimental to one's real progress, unless of course one chooses purposefully to remain in denial of the potential dangers involved in these pseudo-spiritual, left-hand cultivations.

Someone posted this in a practice journal. Thought it might be of some interest to this thread.

"What is enlightenment, no, I mean really, like what is it?"

 

It'd be great to hear what you think of this person's experience SB. Thanks for posting it btw. Interesting..

Only the truly brave can admit to being fearful.