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(this one just for the ambience - i have the CD - usually just for relaxing prior to formal practices) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TDUdT5z_CBU&feature=related Traditional Tibetan format: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RJX0S3m1om0&feature=related ...and this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ILFgoExfegQ&feature=related This mode works the pranas: I use this during meditation classes:

Thanks for the elaboration Trunk. Much appreciated. When you attend to this practice, do you occasionally get any vibrations around the heart centre by any chance? Any associated feeling, as if your heart becomes like a crystal lotus emitting endless rays of hazy white, red and blue light in the four directions? Lately this has been happening when i sit to do formal practices, and was wondering if you have, or had similar absorptions? When this arises, usually i just watch how it does so, and then just consciously let it go, almost like building a paper raft and then gently releasing it by the stream and watching it slowly drift off downstream. Sometimes the visualization directs me to this paper raft as well, usually in red, with thousands of glowing bluish-white Mani mantras lighting it up, carrying the blessings to any being who sees it. Just sharing a visualization experience here. _/\_

flow and balance way inverted teacup holds naught the truth is simple...

Hey Bob, In my current experience i have found out that not everything that arises within consciousness need be recorded. Only by naming and analyzing things, events, feelings, emotions, and assigning labels, either through thoughts, or through repeated mental re-views, or through vocalization, do these then activate the 'memorise' button. That is why in all the meditative traditions, and not just the buddhist ones, there is so much emphasis on observing silence. There are good reasons for this. In some buddhist paths practitioners are taught to find the source of exactly who it is that is doing the memorising, and when that is realized, it becomes easy to liberate thoughts etc the moment these arise in the mindstream, so there is no imprint, ideally speaking, or at least the imprints become less vivid, or less forceful. This process of learning to let go is a natural state - we can either learn it now, or nature will enforce it upon us when age catches up. Either way the mind is not designed for analysis - its ultimate purpose is to remain as close to emptiness as possible, the natural state some call it, yet in practice its all so hard to do. Just imagine the overload we tend to exert on the mind - thru all kinds of sources, instead of simply learning when to let go. Carrying all this load its no wonder there is such a need for spiritual practices of all kinds - if we simply allow the mind to rest naturally, without attempts at contrivance, there is no need for any spiritual path, any discussions, any discourses, any forum arguments and debates, any analysis, any beliefs, any assertive and arrogant remarks, any biases, any shaktipat, or dzogchen, or any other kinds of powerful/less esoterism.... i think you see my point here? Its because many of us tend to cling to the belief that we are somehow inadequate that 'needs' for anything else other than the natural state are created. Hence the saying (Alan Watts i think, paraphrased here) - The tendency is for humans to always look for the longest way around to find the shortest way home. Such is the human condition. It is a contraction. All assertions are contractions of sorts. The moment something is asserted, thats the end of wonderment. I hope this answers your question, albeit in an indirect way. All the best, and may you have a peaceful weekend, and you too, btw (whoever reads this...)

moves on the water just a piece of tattered rope some swear was a snake...

Hmm... that would be moi. Must have been what.. 2 weeks ago? I am surprised that you are still carrying this around with you Bob. You remind of Starjumper, who took the observation so personally. Being a general remark, it was not even directed at him, yet the ensuing reaction was quite zealous. And he is supposed to be well-disciplined with years of MA training... Fair enough if there was any actual relation between that term and the jhanas, but if you reread that particular post, it was referring to all those who are hooked on the 'feel good' factor, to the extent they will go to any length to sustain bliss-like conditions around and in them - at any cost. Just listen/read the news and see the kind of antics people get up to. This is not jhana... its subjecting oneself to addictive delusions of the highest kind, and its apparent and prevalently extreme nowadays. Just ask any average teenager how they spend their free time, and you will have verification in this regard. This is just one example. Its spread is wide, and the only way out for most of these people is to 'look for and ride the next bigger wave', if you know what i mean.

I get the feeling there may be a bit of confusion relating to the term Vipassana meditation. As i have mentioned, watching the breath and allowing awareness to follow it, whether it be focussed around the nostrils or the abdomen, is not Vipassana - this is the practice of Shamatha, which calms the mind before formal sitting to allow for insight (Vipassana) to arise. I find it rather strange that in the US the buzzword seem to revolve around Vipassana, when in actual fact it sounds more like Shamatha that most people are referring to (where watching the breath is concerned). For example, walking meditation is definitely grouped under Shamatha practice. As far as i know, traditionally speaking all Vipassana is done sitting. I wonder why this is? Perhaps others might have some input? Here is an article that clearly explains the two methods: http://buddhist-beliefs.suite101.com/article.cfm/buddhist_meditation_and_the_practice_of_shamatha

From a Taoist perspective: Teachers appear when beings feel inadequate... however, not all that teaches needs to manifest in human form. The odd time i have learnt more from a plastic bag than from the collective numbers of human teachers i have encountered..

This is it - nicely said. Each time the "I" pops up, its like Ego gets the primetime slot on TV!!

Hi Trunk, Would appreciate an expansion on this. This may put some questions in people's minds i think. Cheers.

Meditation by bringing awareness to breath is Shamatha. Its also called Calm Abiding. Some call this 'Bringing the mind home'. Even in the buddhist methods awareness can rest in the abdomen, as illustrated in this image of Shakyamuni: http://www.mandalas.com/Agape_Show/images/buddha_medditating_on_red.jpg Notice the hand mudra, where the Buddha rests His palms. Thats drawing awareness from/to the lower abdomen. Vipassana's purpose is to allow the penetration of insight to unfold and stabilise, usually following Shamatha, but not a definitive requirement. Reason being if the mind is too scattered, or easily distracted, it would be almost impossible for insight to arise.

Man that's really a bit over the top. Such extreme sensitivity - i meant that in a light hearted way, in case you had not noticed. I did not even take your comment as a criticism, and neither would anyone else, if they read your words. Did you mean it as one by any chance? I do not think so, but if you did, thats for you to deal with. And btw, you can critique Buddhism all you want. It does not offend me in the least. However, good to keep in mind it is a philosophy/religion for many people - some use it wisely, while others abuse it to no end. The ones you may offend perhaps exist in the latter group. All i am interested in when i engage with someone here is always only in the wish to get to some understanding of certain principles. Buddhism does not need crusaders, nor anyone to defend its path - and even if it did, i would be totally wrong for the job. And i love Hindu pujas, chants and kirtans, and Hindu traditional music is fab i think. Have you any other issues you want addressed?

Look on the positive side - it brought up your irritation and restlessness which would otherwise have remained festering inside, so now you have one less of each in your system! Dont you feel better already? So it was good like this..

There is a middle way you know? Perhaps one that releases the extremes of decadent, hedonistic abandonment and total suppression? Imagine the ego akin to a spring - if one exerts too much counterforce on it, two things can happen - one, the overexertion itself lends too much strength to the spring, and two, it tires the finger or thumb; on the other hand, if its simply neglected, its of no use. Finding the right tension thru realizing its potential often leads to the fulfillment of the spring's potential and true purpose. Once recognized and put in the correct place, its rather silly to keep focussing on the spring. One does not constantly take a watch apart to make sure all the springs are doing their job - in the same way, one does not need to perpetually examine the ego to keep it in check. If there is wisdom, just like a watchmaker has wisdom, one would know the exact place and purpose of ego. The wiser one is, the less troublesome the ego.

[quote name='Stoner Shadow Wolf' date='30 June 2010 - 03:32 AM' timestamp='1277865167' post='197081' Pass the peanuts Ford. I'm assassinating him. Do you know my name? Do you know my name? He that moves between shadows and rests 'neath the falls...

Wonderful saying by the Zen master Styro. My lack of insight tells me the 'real truth' is revealed in all the kayas, manifesting in different forms and wisdoms in varying degrees, which then culminates in perfect awakening in the Dharmakaya. All three kayas (some mention a fourth - Svabhavikakaya, which is the indivisible identity of the 3 kayas - also known as the Essence Body) support each other. I understand the Dharmakaya to represent Space, Sambhogakaya to represent the cognizance of phenomena (which is empty in essence, like space) and Nirmanakaya is the ultimate state of unconfined unity of the other two. Please correct me if this is inaccurate.

Hi Vaj.. I would like to hear your take on the nine vehicles, if you are ok with it. If not, thats fine. Thanks.

Fabulous detour. Enjoy the view, and try not to get lost...

Spontaneity transcends all make-beliefs. You have said it well H. This man has nothing to do with any traditions, i think. I have listened to a few of his talks and never once heard him mention, even in the slightest, that he is some master of this or that tradition. I think he knows he belongs to the human tradition, and that is essentially the tie that binds... yes? The portrayal of representing some tradition, whether in perceptible or subtle ways, almost always drag up some kind of segregation/exclusion, which, I believe, Mooji understands very well. Btw, i have no qualms about sitting next to Dennis...

Thanks Hagar - that was profoundly, terrifically, enjoyably funny! :lol: Brought tears to me eyes...from laughing so much!! Watching it felt as though i was right there next to Dennis! Maybe i was? Mooji is wonderfully present. I like him a lot. Again, many thanks for this clip.

regeneration of the refrigeration stops ice-creams melting...

Hi Kate - Ever heard of a chap named Shinzen Young? He has to say in relation to this topic: "We're always talking about "I" as though its a substantive, a noun, a thing inside me. The conventions of language (subject vs objects, and so forth) constantly reinforce a perception that there's a solid thing called a self thats fundamentally separate from others. That sense that there is a solid particle or entity called self goes away at enlightenment. Your fundamental confusion about things goes away. The ascribing of more to ethics and ceremonies than they can actually deliver goes away. Thats the traditional Buddhist formulation of the 3 things that go away at enlightenment." I am not familiar at all with his works, but if you want to explore his inspirations further, who knows what deeper insights he may have to offer. Apparently he is well-regarded as a teacher and author, and Wiki says he has also practiced widely in the other Buddhist traditions and Lakota Sioux Shamanism. This last bit sounds rather interesting... Anyway, i snipped this from a longer interview he had on the subject of Enlightenment. If you are so inclined to read further, here is the article: http://www.buddhistgeeks.com/2010/06/on-enlightenment-an-interview-with-shinzen-young/ Gotta go! Have fun with this wonderful thread you opened! Sounds like a great way to start the week! hehe

This is how Tibetan masters view the birth of Dzogchen. Not saying who is right or wrong - just presenting it from one perspective. I am sure if you ask a Nepalese or a Bhutanese Dzgn Master they will each weave a different brocade in relation to its inception. According to Tibetan belief, before the Dzogchen teachings appeared in this world, they spread in the 3 divine realms of Akanishtha, Tushita and the Abode of the 33 Gods on the summit of Mount Sumeru. Akanishtha, in this case the symbolic Akanishtha, is where Dzgn was taught to the gods, and is within samsara. This is as opposed to the ultimate Akanishtha, which is the realm of buddha nature itself. In this symbolic Akanishtha, the dhamakaya buddha Samantabhadra manifested out of the spontaneous sound of dharmata and taught the Dzogchen tantras. The teachers of the 3 kayas, in the context of Ati, are called the dharmakaya buddha Samantabhadra, the sambhogakaya buddha Vajradhara, and the nirmanakaya buddha Vajrasattva. This last named buddha Vajrasattva was the buddha who transmitted the Dzgn teachings to the first human vidyadhara, the knowledge-holder Garab Dorje. It is said he received the six million 400 thousand Dzgn tantras directly from Vajrasattva. Buddha Shakyamuni was the last of the twelve holders of the Dzgn teachings. But the person who actually spread them in this world was Garab Dorje. How was it transmitted? Vajradhara is said to be the manifestation of the dharmakaya buddha Samantabhadra, yet with all the adornments. He is the same buddha, but when he appears in a form that is fully ornamented he is known as Vajradhara. At the same time, Vajradhara, in his sambhogakaya buddha form, transmitted the Dzgn teachings through his emanation as nirmanakaya buddha Vajrasattva, who then passed on the Dzgn teachings to Garab Dorje. GD is the first human being who disseminated these teachings, but as i mentioned earlier, that does not mean that Buddha Shakyamuni was not a holder of those teachings. Still, the one who truly propagated the 6,400,000 verses, or 'shlokas', of the Dzgn tantras in our world was GD. He condensed them all into 3 sentences called the Three Words That Strike The Vital Point - Recognize your own nature, decide on one point, and gain confidence in liberation. Within Ati yoga are subdivisions such as Outer Mind, inner Space, and Secret Instruction. There is also a fourth, called the Innermost Unexcelled Section, or sometimes known as Innermost Heart Essence, which consists of the extraordinary Dzgn teachings. It is said that the ultimate view of the teachings given by the nirmanakaya buddha is the view of the Middle Way, Madhyamika. The ultimate view given by the sambhogakaya buddha is Mahamudra, and the ultimate view given by the dharmakaya buddha buddha is Dzgn, the Great Perfection. Although Buddha Shakyamuni had, of course, realized the nature of the 9 Vehicles, in his function as the nirmanakaya buddha he publicly gave teachings appropriate for shravakas, pratyekabuddhas and bodhisattvas. The primary view, in this case, was the Middle Way, Madhyamika, whereas GD emphasized Ati Yoga, especially the Dzgn view of the outer, inner and innermost sections of Mind, Space and Instruction. He condensed all the Dzgn tantras into the 3 Vital Points (as mentioned above).

After to-ing and fro-ing with Vaj for the last year or so, one would think that you would be really tired of the regurgitated sameness of experience by now. Apparently not so, as the karmic energy is still very much lingering. When they eventually cease, with or without your 'self' direction or effort, then 'going beyond' arises naturally. Just like Vaj has no control over your reactive emotions, yet each time you read some of his posts, they arise spontaneously. In essence, the energy underlying your emotions and those that bring forth discrimination cannot be differentiated. One taste, as they say. Eventually one learns simply to recognize arising energetic displays without assigning any preferences to the arisings. When one is able to rest pervasively in this stateless state, there is no coming or going - thus one is said, figuratively, to have gone beyond (dualistic notions, all levels, from gross to subtle to remainder to no remainder). Or something along these lines... If you do not assign any labels to your expressive responses, you will see, when you just allow them to simmer inside, that over time your energy levels will increase. Those who do not know the correct way to handle this will feel as though they are in a pressure-cooker. In Dzogchen, you should have already learned to transmute the latent potential of inner energetic manifestations. By choosing against redirecting your energy inwards, you instead express it towards Vaj, then it becomes negative, in the sense that you felt something is not right, hence the response, but if you do not express it, but skillfully redirects it back inside, then its to your own benefit. You have a choice. Since you practice the highest stages of Trekcho and Togal, you ought to know this is the essence of Dzogchen - the transformation of poison into elixir, just like how the mongoose transforms the snake's poison.

The OP's sincerity in putting this up is commendable. What i cannot understand is why offer this summary? It really does not encompass the Dzogchen path fully, and may lead to unnecessary misguidance due to incomplete information. Is this really helpful i wonder? There are volumes of teachings around Dzogchen, and it takes a practitioner months, if not years, of Ngondro practice and the attendance of at least one or two 3-month retreats (or ideally to complete one 1-year retreat) before being ready for the specific Dzogchen empowerments. Maybe i am a traditionalist at heart, but i am quite certain other Dzogcheners here would attest to this. And btw, your summary is not even accurately presented, having missed some of the most fundamental key aspects, like the critical explanation of the nine vehicles, namely the 3 outer sutra vehicles, the 3 outer tantras, and the 3 inner tantras. These alone form the introductory stages of the path, which if not understood and assimilated, one cannot expect to move further up the path. Perhaps it was an oversight on your part, and if it was, maybe you might consider expanding your summary by incorporating a more expansive explanation of the nine vehicles, for example. I still maintain though that this post is quite irrelevant, and will not create the right conditions for the the appropriate intro into Dzogchen. Apologies Alwayson - you are free to post whatever you like to, i know, but there are some things we really ought to reflect/ponder in greater depth before putting them up. Sincerely. This is just my opinion. You are free to disregard it as you please.