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Jetsun ... its quite obvious you are bouncing your patience off the wall here. There is no yielding - none that can be seen right now anyway. But who knows... might be a good idea to keep chipping away too, its much like planting the right seeds which will sprout in their own time, i guess. As this dimension becomes more complex, it appears that people are losing their battle to find explanations fast enough to cope with the ever-increasing speed of the build-up of mental toxicity (in the form of people absorbing too much information, evident in some of the offerings here made by the OP) hence they begin to speak of judgements that supposedly take place in a different dimension that is meant to keep beings in this dimension on the straight and narrow, and also meant to confuse the heck out of the vulnerables too. Does this makes any sense to you? What compassion?

Hey Dawg... Apologies for veering off your subject of the spirit world. Cant agree with you here that experience implies attachment. I do not believe that experiences in themselves are harmful or distracting. Enlightened beings surely have experiences too. So logically there is no attachment implied here at all. Something else goes on as experiences take place that separates how an enlightened being handles experience as compared to clowns like me. Something that is tied to habitual tendencies, which is the unseen force that makes people do things against their will, that then gives birth to attachments and aversions, which in turn displaces one's mindful presence, or makes it difficult to sustain this mindfulness. Like being helplessly carried away by a tsunami, as an analogy. Even enlightened beings, if they happen to be in the vicinity, will be swept away, but the difference is perhaps they will struggle less, and the sense of helplessness can not arise if there is an absence of struggle. Simple cause and effect stuff. thanks for your time, btw... i very much enjoy the conversations, even if we disagree on certain personal views.

Not so sure that 'enlightenment' is itself an experience. According to your practice (and mine too), there is no 'I' to experience this enlightened state. At the onset of the realization of non-dual awakening, which can only happen in the now-ness of the moment, always, the self drops away. Who remains to experience, when the very act of acknowledging any experience, following which the reference of a self must necessarily arise, immediately regresses the mind to recall and reflect on past experiences as rough or subtle measures to arouse meaning in the present one. Which is why i said enlightenment cannot be an experience. That which can be experienced(named) can not be true enlightenment. What is true enlightenment? That which can not be named. Therefore, silence. To conclude, just wanna say that enlightenment is not like skydiving.

I think you assume too much at times, but then nothing wrong with this.. after all, it can be quite a task to relate properly over the internet. Rarely encounter this issue with the group i have who meet for meditation practice every week. Did i mention that it was easy and smooth-sailing? If you had picked that up somewhere in what had been written, i apologize for the slip-up. Thanks for alerting me to be more mindful of what i try to convey to others. If you believe in the depth of your heart that you ought to find your own truth, so be it. That in itself is the 'how' you yearn to find. Maybe if you cease trying to search for it, you will see it at the tip of your nose. (another vague, horoscopic observation - sorry.) Screw the teachers. After all, they cant walk the path for you. Heck, some of the gurus i have met before even say we fool ourselves by thinking we need to be on one. We create the reality, and zoom! In we go.... Dont like what you see? Create another one. After all, life is but a dreamy sort of existence, but we tend to want to solidify it by chiseling fervently at illusive, phenomenal mirages in the hope that one fine day we get to actualize these apparitions and make them come alive, and our existence from then on will become meaningful and worthwhile. How to cross to the other side? What other side? What's wrong with this side? Don't like it? Well, too bad. Most times this side is all we have got. Even if there is an 'other' side, and it can be accessed, when you get there, its nothing but yet another 'this side'. This is the thing - most genuine teachers will say to their audience of wide-eyed followers (just go home and leave me alone, i cant give you what you already possess!!) that they are already okay, that where they are now is all they have got, and if they learn to be more accepting and yielding to their present beingness without struggling to imagine that a different state of beingness is better than this one, then what is there to prevent peace, contentment and calm abiding? I can tell you now (you might find this hard to swallow) that the true purpose of meditation is to simply settle the mind unto its own empty yet brilliantly cognizant state, and rest in this for as long as your mindfulness will carry you. There is nothing to do. Stay in the present. How? Whatever arises, watch it arise, and whatever subsides, watch it subside, that is all. In this way, the mind finds its own level, and when it does, there is little or no potential for conflict. Conflict-less, everything we subsequently do/be arises not from a source of discord but from a harmonious ground, resulting in much fulfillment. If the mind is essentially not at rest, even if you can access the highest states of being, there will still be dissatisfaction tainting the way you remain, so what is the right thing to do? There is no 'how' - your idea of 'how to' is the very thought that will prevent the settling from happening. If you can see this, you are sorted, but if not, no matter what someone says, you will always be wanting to know 'how'. Here in lies the amusing, almost paradoxical equation. You want to rant? I say rant away. After a while, the ranting stops (or not).. and then what next?

Thank you sincerely, RV... (I can see why being too relaxed could pose a few potentially painful problems! )

It would be most interesting to hear an expansion from you on the above, Manitou. In gratefulness..

:) hey there Rainbows! (how are you?) Curious... hope you dont mind some questions here, RV. Would a prevalent relaxed state be one in which you are working towards? If yes, will you be able to explain why this is so? What happens when you want to be in a fully relaxed state but at times find that there are little obstacles that somehow seem to be in the way? Can you then access SM at will and immediately feel you are 'in the zone'? In other words, by directing attention to your less-than-relaxed self, would this very awareness bring about a shift in your being? Do you think it is possible to maintain a beingness that is neither too stressed or too relaxed? Neither too calm or too excited? Move when moving, and still when stilling? Ok when relaxed, and ok too when relaxation is gone? Something like this way of being - what is your opinion? Thanks for considering this, and for the reply if you choose to. (sorry for so many nosey questions!) All the v best!

Yes to all. Also, this info might be good to keep in mind: Venturing (hiking/walking/camping) into the hills and forests, swimming in suspicious looking pools and deserted coves/lagoons, chopping down of old trees, clearing of woodlands - all very sedate activities, but its always helpful to offer up respect and plead for clemency in advance before setting off on the task/activity in question - just in case. And as Rex had mentioned - when out and about, dont pee into rock pools or simply anywhere one pleases cos you really dont know what could be lurking near by. Spirits are often more attracted to genital openings than other bodily orifices, so do be very mindful next time anyone decides to sun-gaze in the nude, or commune with nature au naturel. Might end up with more than we bargained for. In Ireland, for example, hill walking is a big hobby, and every so often we hear of reports in the news that someone goes missing, and the odd thing is that this particular activity is almost always done in a group format. Most get rescued however, and when asked how they could possibly lose the group, most would reply that they, as if bedazzled or dazed, haven't a clue how it happened. In the East, children are often given basic induction into parallel worlds at a very young age. As an example, Whenever they have to pee out in the wild, they were told to mutter silently this phrase before commencing the act: Please excuse my ignorance, and pardon me for this 'urgent need to go' if you (a spirit could be around) happen to be close by. Nine times out of ten, such humility in their presence would suffice in being let off the hook, BUT sometimes, due to unfortunate circumstances, there happen to be a pretty wrathful spirit (or a horde of them) in the area, and will take offense even if this formality is observed prior. In such cases, its not uncommon for kids (yes, adults too) to return home from their outdoor adventures complaining of fever, nausea, dizziness, cramps etc. These would be very clear symptoms of having neglected to observe certain functional decorums of the spirit plane, and have carelessly soiled 'their environment'. In the event of this happening, its good to be aware of non-logical possibilities other than obvious ones, especially if the condition does not show signs of abating as quickly as you think it should. If there is any suspicion of psychical interference, most times a small act of offering (by the parent) at the likely spot where the offense took place should suffice in bringing restorative relief from the affliction for the child. These offerings could be in the form of incense, a small variety of colorful sweets and cakes, tea, or sweet wine, cooked rice, some cooked meats, etc. And most vital of all: A sincere and pure motive. Sometimes these self-generated intercessions will not work, especially if the spirit in question has some clout, or hangs out with the big boys and gals of the other side. In such cases, it would be helpful to seek consultation with someone in the know, like a shaman or a high lama. Not sure about shamans, but i know the (right)lamas will not ask for any payment, but a donation to their center or monastery is often the proper thing to do. (A word of caution: never burn any strong-smelling crystalline substances (like camphor, amber or myrrh) during the offering ceremony, as these will only make it/them more mad! The idea is to attempt an appeasement, not drive it/them away by antagonistic means!) For those interested in research into the paranormal, especially from a Far-Eastern perspective, this is a good website to browse> http://www.spi.com.sg/spi_files/tree_spirits/main00.htm

Well, observation is good! The Observer observing itself observing the observed (sorry, i know its your 'name'... but usually this is what it is, a snappy, usable, mindful process of returning instantly to the present). Effective, profound and highly under-rated in today's world of action, action, action, results, results, and more RESULTS, and then more action, action, action! We often place unrealistic demands on ourselves most of the time, and then wonder why it is so difficult to remain serene and unbothered by the comings and goings of life. So glad to hear you are making progress!

Yes, this would be quite the way to be, living or not.

And then some say that the separation exists only in our over-active imagination, and we create this false urgency to do many things to recompense a mirage-like situation and ironically end up even further away from union than if we had not begun 'groping and searching' in the first instance. This clip has a nice way of summing up what's been said here. I have posted it before, but the newer Bums may not have seen it, so.... here:

Yes! Well said, O! A talk on ghostbusting, and why being loving and kind towards spirits often helps, by Tsem Rinpoche (gets interesting from 2:12 on) -- -------------------- Hey Rex... great post! Thanks. _/\_

In mundane pursuits, we set goals, do the right things, and often we can see, feel and measure results rather quickly. This is quite the norm. In things spiritual, especially in meditation, some of the results you expect to see and and feel are often so subtle that it can be quite intangible, and would only be intuited after spending many months, if not years, practicing the same routine faithfully. If you think about it, you might realize that the mere willingness to persevere with the practice of meditation, even though it initially appears to do nothing for you, is itself the best result, for the very act of conscious meditative absorption is already its fruit. This is why in some traditions they speak of things like the gateless gate, or the signless sign, or the stateless state. Why are there such metaphors? One of the reasons could be because when you practice meditation long enough, positive changes will slowly permeate your being, and in the process rout out all the old habitual tendencies and replace them with a renewed sense of somehow, everything is just the way it is. This is like realizing you have walked out some kind of door of a room only to step in back into the same room on the other side, only difference is this time the room appears totally vivid and full of all the things that you never noticed before. Some call this presence of being. And meditation does exactly this: it makes you present after a while - whether this is your goal or not is of no importance - it simply happens on its own, without you actually having to do anything consciously. This is wonderful! Getting results without any real effort! Funnily enough, many of us are dissatisfied with simply letting things be the way they are, and so we start looking for signs, searching for 'highs' that will affirm that we are indeed making progress. If this is how we are, then we become absent, as if we as the self need something external, some 'thing' other than this very self, to affirm our importance. We do not. In truth, we are already so filled with more distractive signs than we can handle, hence one of the fundamental reasons for doing meditation practice is to dissolve whatever signs and false notions (seen as neuroses) that are distracting our natural state, and thence return us to this presence of being. Some call this sort of revelation an awakening. At times it can be hard, i know... we may start doubting our efforts, things get a bit shaky, especially when friends ask us why we meditate, and then the only truthful answer we can offer them is, "I meditate simply to be present". Sounds ridiculous, but at the end of the day, this is exactly what meditation does. Some people don't see this: they say, "Dont be silly, we are already present - we are here, aren't we?" This is not the real meaning of presence. By being fully present (which is your natural state, btw, and not something which you do to bring about - its more like 'undoing' if you know what i mean) it simply means you become more undistracted by things that happen, and in the face of all that appears, you remain unaffected by any of it, rising above the normal tendency to react to things, you come into a space where you alone decides your direction, which way you want to act so as to achieve the exact outcome that your actions will entail. When you can do this, it means you have become mindfully aware, and are no longer easily duped by the things that happen around you. Have a listen to this short talk, which may throw up further ideas to enlighten your path:

Ah, my dear Taomeow... young virgins are loved for their purity and innocence... whereas a good heart can only be cast in the furnace of equanimous might, emblazoned with the fiercest compassion, where neither friend nor foe can nudge. Purity and innocence may be the ground for developing a good heart, but also contains within it the potential for sully. On the other hand, a good heart is one that has already been dragged down to the deepest mud, or has taken a seat in the thrones of heaven, and yet has remained unsullied, unmoved, neither disgusted nor overwhelmed by all that is presented before this one. That is the small difference, i m o. You must be familiar with the ancient tales of how the Maoshan masters had great equanimity towards all beings, living or not, and part of their joyous occupation was to help the villagers tame the wild and restless spirits that roam the idyllic countrysides of China, often inviting these tormented souls into their chinese gourd, and later sending these off to take on more auspicious rebirths? Even today, such compassionate traditions are still observed, with special days set aside to appease these wandering souls thru offerings of foods and wine, prayers and the burning of Fus and effigies as means of liberating them from their torment. An interesting article about the Chinese gourd: http://primaltrek.com/gourd.html (Btw, I swear by the ingestion of enough raw garlic to keep things at bay... both human or otherwise... ) But thanks for the tip, nonetheless.

You, my dear sir, indulge in too much speculation. A lot of what you say is just wishful thinking mixed in with half-truths, failed prophecies and some home-made philosophical stir-ins, and then you hope that someone will find your 'cooking' all kosher. Well it aint, and with another fantastical declaration to boot (Li Hongzhi is the Son of Man?) i think i will cease to engage you further, Mr Gauss, as its obvious what your agenda here is. You seem like a smart man.. really hope that one day you will wake up and walk out of this fog. Thanks for your time and patience.

The most effective 'weapon' for 'fighting' off any invasion, be it physical or psychical, is a good heart. You may not prevent the attack, but trust me, you will heal faster. And the faster you heal, the stronger your spiritual resistance will build, until there comes a time when these demons will turn into angels when in your presence. All evils will be pacified in the presence of one whose heart is pure... ever hear this? If all else fails, buy yourself an ectoplasmic vacuum cleaner? Seriously.

Hi Alfa... You have been gifted the opportunity to come face to face with boredom. Do you have the tenacity to really go into this boredom that you are experiencing each time you practice, and meet it squarely? You can try to have a conversation with it, and see what sort of feedback it gives you. Its really not that silly. If you do, one day it might dawn upon you that boredom is not the issue - the real issue that you are facing is the fight you have with not wanting to understand what boredom is all about, and because you do not want to understand, boredom will always be a step ahead of you. The same principle can be applied to other areas of our lives where perceived afflictions are felt, be it emotional, physical, or mental. The problem/suffering arises not in the pain of the affliction itself, but the constant, impatient need in us to want to sensate differently, the desire for subsidizing the afflictive states, to turn them into something more tolerable and pleasant when they are not yet ready to diminish (when their energies are not fully spent yet.) Through deep understanding, achieved when you have the guts to come into full and intimate contact with boredom, your fear of it and the ensuing frustration will gradually subside. Then, whenever it decides to strike, again and again your resolve will simply and effortlessly dissolve the power it has over you, and you will emerge victorious over it - its sting can no longer dislodge you from your lotus seat. Undistracted, you will know exactly when it happens, and also, when it will subside. This is the nature of all experiences - impermanence. Nothing lasts forever, but when we feed these perceived discomforts by giving them attention and energy, thru the usual route of trying to avert them by force, then its like we wittingly enter into play with them, hence they will gladly outstay their welcome. No wonder people get stressed out and frustrated, when all it takes to rise above these negative feelings is to own up to our own dislikes and accept responsibility for whatever occurs, without affirmation, negation, judgement and blame. What we need to first develop in practice is not all these wonderful sounding methods that lead to all kinds of amazing breakthroughs. Often these are merely wishful designer fantasies aimed at gullible 'spiritual' shoppers. I have a small meditation group that hangs out once a week in practice, and in the room where we sit to do this, there is a print on one wall, and the word on it says, PATIENCE. Have you got this? Look inside yourself, and ask, really dig deeply, and discover for yourself how this humble attribute happens to be the common denominator that separates the sages from the wannabes. With this supreme quality as part of your virtuous spiritual armor, all good things will follow you. Remember: There is no lasting gratification if things simply fall into your lap with the least amount of practice time. Persevere with what you have been gifted... and your reward might just be around the corner. Wishing you all the best as you venture forth.

Excellent writings! Thanks for the inspirational tone. Looking forward to more of your contributions in the coming days...

Good read. Thanks DC! That thread you mentioned is not about being fascinated with the spirit world - rather, its about one man's experience of it, and as such, i would say that a few here would find such accounts worthy of reflection, and may trigger insights which can turn out to be helpful, or even inspirational for some. Just as you have often shared your personal experiences here, which many have found to be interesting and worthy of note, others too have their different experiences to share. It may not be fair to interpret these other's experiences exclusively in light of your own, and do a comparison which, again experience will have informed us, do not often accord perfectly with our own unfolding wisdom. In truth, i too have found some of Dawg's accounts quite cutting-edge stuff, and have actually read some of it with slightly raised eyebrows, but then its his experience at this particular juncture, and that we have to concede to every one here, i believe. We may disagree with certain things, but often, these non-acceptances are simply our own little quirky thingies which pops up now and then, so looking at it from a more constructive view, its great we get to recognize that we still have small work to do on ourselves. After all, as have been quoted in this article by D. Reid: All perceived biases are nothing more than energetic displays, and when one can see things this way, there is really not much to do - there is no need to rectify anything, because in essence, any attempt to do so might simply steer the awareness away from its pristine state. Through familiarization with allowing things to come and go as they are, all frustrations will eventually subside, and consequently we will transform to be softer inside, and become less critical of ourselves and others as a result. When we become less critical of ourselves and others, it leads to peace and tranquility. And then peace and tranquility will lead to..... (you get the pic, bro.) Apologies for this lecture-like post. Not intended as such. If you find it offensive, i'd be happy to delete it from this thread.

Hi Uli... Welcome to TTB! Thanks for putting up the above article. I liked what the writer said. Was wondering if you would like to speak a bit and expand on the quote above about the two paths? Be nice to hear your thoughts... (Btw, thanks to you, i watched a couple of Tim Freke's short talks on YT, enjoyed them, and thinks he is a very compassionate and wise man. I shall be keeping an eye out for more of his clips in future.) Leave you this (talk by Mooji) as a token of thanks:

Are you being serious here, Mr Gauss? Is he keeping the best bits for himself then? Something smells, if what you are saying is true. No wonder the brighter Bums here are so concerned for your welfare that they actually take the time/make the effort to alert you to the basic flaws of the system. (Brownie points to all - the more you guys try to wake Mr Gauss up, the purer your karma, so keep it up!!) Btw, what's been highlighted above is one such flaw. Its like a flashing beacon, yet your 'wisdom level' does not allow you to see it. I beg of you - please, please wake up. This man is playing god... does that not say something to you? Subservience to a higher human authority is the last thing any true spiritual tradition would encourage. The way i see it, your whole premise for promoting FG here has suddenly collapsed due to this one single declaration you have made. Sorry for being so straightforward. Could not live with myself if i kept quiet.

Yes, this is one very useful insight, TM... thanks for sharing! Just not sure about the part where you said 'cultivation towards transcendence...'. I guess this depends on what 'level' one is at. In the early stages of practice, it can be a useful idea to promote one's understanding along the lines of 'leaving one point and moving up to another, and another', but after a while, as one moves into practices of a more ultimate nature, one begins to see that even cultivation and practice is already accomplished from the beginning (not that there is any real beginning as in a sort of zero point thing, as such), more like an innate, beginning-less space, if i can use this phrase. At that level, there are no more surprises. Everything is already perfect. This arose not from sense understanding, but thru reflection, observation, distillation and eventually familiarization, which has gradually deepened into pervasive awareness, and reawakening as intuitive knowing, and so now the cares of what to do and not do is being let go of. Primordial purity... do nothing... all is already done... needs are pacified... desires dissolve spontaneously as they arise... Of what good is the chasing after transcendence at this point? This isn't some theory picked from too much reading nor is it a metaphysical speculation... I have, a couple of years ago, given up on these sorts of luxurious indulgences. This is what is unfolding in totality in this present time, with this 'me' being felt as unseparated from this one single, yet simultaneously differentiated, unfolding. The significance of things, the wanting of experience and understanding, the struggle with leveling emotions and assignation of priorities, assertions of self-will pitted against the collective will of those whom i have deemed to be on the outside, which seems all so important in the past, wasting so many years in attempting to juggle it all, in the hope of not losing the balance - well, so what? What has this all got that is so captivating? Life is just what it is, no matter how much we know or dont know. For some, knowing is problematic, for others not knowing is problematic. So, just simply give up, cease struggling, and resisting, and abandon all hope, is what i learnt. Loss is all mine, whatever can be gained, is all yours... all yours. In gratefulness, i accept my destiny, and abandon all searching for the bright shore - its neither dark nor bright, and there is no shore outside of what is inside me. Here, now, i have yet to take a step forward or back, nor moved up or down, in any one direction. Am i here, or am i there? If i dont fret over where i am now, why would i care where i will be tomorrow? Love you and you and you!!

Thanks for sharing this, Mr Songs. I like the last two sentences..

In stillness, let there be stillness. For stillness to be, motion has to be. In motion, let there be motion. For motion to be, stillness has to be. In stillness, there is also motion. In motion, there is also stillness. Beyond stillness and motion, nothing comes and goes. There is no birth and no death. Beyond even stillness and motion... purification of all dualistic notions and perceptions leading to complete transcendence. Its not that difficult. When you are still, be with the stillness, and when in motion, be one with that. Discomfort arises often as a direct result of the mind following conflicting desires - when one is still, the desire to move arises, and vice versa. We tend to fight against these thoughts, because we have all these ideas about what is right and wrong, which then create the causes for agitation and anxiety to stir inside. This stirring will subtly bring about grosser distractions, and before we realize what is happening, we lose the presence. I am not saying that we ought to give up the knowledge of right and wrong. What needs giving up is the temptation to constantly analyze and compartmentalize our views of what right and wrong is, and then set out to do one while/by trying to eradicate or suppress the other. Thru the right meditative practices, one can learn to remain with whatever arises, without affirmation nor negation of any sort. This is the beginning of equanimous being - no acceptance nor rejection, and no non-acceptance nor non-rejection. Totally free of any resting view. To be free, there cannot be any acceptance or rejection - when one is confused, one daringly becomes utterly and willingly one with the confusion. Dont fight it - feel it fully. When there is clarity, immerse totally with this clarity as it appears - submerge yourself fully into it, touch it, feel it, let it overwhelm you unreservedly. Why? Because there will come a time when we realize how fleeting both are, how illusory, how impermanent - both mental states never lasts too long. And then hopefully one day we get so tired and give up chasing after one and have no energy to avert the other. To do this, to give up, requires much courage, the back-against-the-wall, no retreat, no surrender kind of courage. Then conflict will have no room to raise its head. By its own power, it will shrink. When there is no conflict, there is no need for enlightenment. Every aspect of what we call life merges and diverges at the same instance... you have come home. Trungpa Rinpoche alluded to this kind of warrior-like attitude when he said: "Creating a false kind of hope is one of the most prominent features of spiritual materialism... there are so many promises involved. So much hope is painted in your heart. This is playing on your basic weakness. It creates further confusion with regard to pain: In trying to deny and forget the pain, you get involved in looking for alternatives, anything to replace that pain. And that itself is another pain. This is what we have put ourselves thru, and will continue to do so, until we understand deep enough that the basic requirement for treading the spiritual path is (to embrace) hopelessness."