C T

No self, in my limited understanding, does not equate to 'not existing'. Neither does it equate to an absence of self. However, it also does not equate to something else existing in place of self.

Could you be certain that DO and Emptiness both point toward 'I dont know'? Perhaps in all likelihood they may be pointing to 'There is no need to know or not know'? From where i stand, this attitude may align to freedom more than the other. Things are knowable, yet i feel it almost sounds wrong to say, "i know that i am knowing something". Knowing is an evolving process, in this sense? The possibility of growth and maturity stems from such a process, and not from that which has already been known, for in this stagnation is bred, i think. The known requires there to be a self to qualify and quantify the past, to which all known things belong, whereas in the process of knowing, which necessitates being awake in the ever-ongoing present moment, i think it more requires the absence of this same self. I fully agree with you - to say "I know" is to betray the potential that exists when one partakes in the process of knowing - its almost arrogant and narcissistic.

Its quite astounding how easily the masses get swayed by notions and symbols which they think indicates 'the real mcCoy'. The willingness to step back a little, or at times forward a little, often reveals that which is obvious, but somehow overlooked.

What is this experience of no thing ness? Is it akin to no self ness? One has to feel life to feel what death is. Only in this there is a knowing of each. What does life feel like? How does one speak of something that is indescribable?

No-self does not equate to nothingness. How do you know what is experienced after death? Have you died before? Its hard enough to know what is being experienced while alive. Unless you are inferring this for convention's sake. In which case, you would understand that self and no-self are also convened for the purpose of understanding the nature of the path that leads to the cessation of unsatisfactoriness and suffering.

'Self' Realization - The body is a bodhi tree The mind is a bright mirror Always diligently polish this mirror so that dust may never collect. 'Non-self' Realization - Bodhi is originally without a tree The mirror is also without a stand Originally there is not a single thing Where is there a place for dust to collect? (an exchange between Shenxiu and Huineng)

Basically there are no issues, but you keep making it difficult not to address some of the things you lend weight to - you know what is being inferred here, i hope. You do not realize how often you belittle others, whats worse, you disguise your motives and intentions. I do not know you, but i read your words, and its your attitude expressed thru these that i happen to find unsavory. If you want to take this as an insult, or feel that you are being slandered, then this is wholly my fault, and in no way the fault of the Buddha, or Buddhism. All the same, thanks for taking the time to read the link.

"About this mind... in truth, there is nothing really wrong with it. It is intrinsically pure. Within itself its already peaceful. That the mind is not at peace these days is because it follows moods. The real mind doesn't have anything to it, it is simply an aspect of Nature. It becomes agitated because moods deceive it. The untrained mind is stupid. Sense impressions come and trick it into happiness, suffering gladness, and sorrow, but the mind's true nature is none of those things. That gladness or sadness is not the mind, but only a mood coming to deceive us. The untrained mind gets lost and begins following these moods, and in doing so, forgets itself, its own pure nature. Then we think it is we who are upset or at ease or whatever. After years, such forgetting becomes habit. But really, this mind of ours is already unmoving and peaceful... really peaceful! Just like a leaf which is still as long as no wind blows. If a wind comes up the leaf flutters. The fluttering is due to the wind - the 'fluttering' is due to the sense impressions - the mind follows these sense impressions, and registers the movements, the emotions, the colors of these movements and emotions. If it does not follow these, there is no 'fluttering'. If we know fully the true nature of sense impressions we will become unmovable, sagacious. Our practice is simply to see the Original Mind. We must train the mind to know these sense impressions, and not get lost in them; to make it peaceful. Just this is the aim of all this difficult practices we put ourselves through." - Ajahn Chah, Food for the Heart Just wanted to share this... Wish you the very best, Cat Pillar.

A helpful 'pointing out' of Anatta/Not-Self that everyone here, who claims sincerity, ought to read - http://www.angelfire.com/electronic/awakening101/noself.html

Could be for this reason why some are unable to see their own reflection. Then there are also cracked mirrors that distort, which leads to all kinds of silly projections. Blockhead may be a compliment in your case. For all your self affirmations and pretense at wanting to steer towards sensible dialog, you seem to be the only one slinging labels at Buddhist practitioners, the Buddha and the Buddhist path. I dont see any Buddhists here demeaning, slinging mud or putting down practitioners of other paths. You appear to be unable to debate assertions without attaching any sub-standard attempt at tarnishing other's position. Some mirror indeed. You cant even tell who is Buddhist and who is not. It appears that anyone who speaks up against your folly gets slapped with a 'Buddhist' tag. As i said earlier... sad. And lopsided.

Makes no difference if the blindfold comes off or stays on... some people find comfort in keeping their eyes closed while declaring others blind.

Hi Scott, You might find these two articles quite capable of furthering the deconstruction of the 'self', in a relative sort of way - http://archive.thebuddhadharma.com/issues/2009/summer/noself.php http://bodhi.sofiatopia.org/skandhas.htm Your 'angry Buddhist' pal, CT

Such projections... Sad. Sooner or later, this sort of attitude will devour whatever goodness you have left. Angry Buddhists? Seems like the only angry one here is yourself. Btw, i think you are a bit confused and have to be occasionally reminded that this site is not, is not, an exclusive Taoist country club. Its rather humorous you keep insisting otherwise. Just think back to about a year ago, and reflect on your mindset then in response to threads of a similar vein, and now. Have you learnt anything? Grown perhaps in mental stature and tenacity? Seems to me you are still mired in the same gooey little rut as you were back then. Is Buddhism lacking, or is it you? Honest appraisal please?

+++ nice.... thanks for sharing this DP.

You must be rather proud of this. You always come across as someone who knows better, cos your posts often have dark undertones - not sure if this is obvious to you. I wonder what have you really achieved by such remarks, and also, what is your motive here, other than glaringly displaying the well-worn axe you are grinding? Your words smacks of arrogance and in no way reflect the spirit of a cultivator of the Tao. Quite disappointing really.

An inspiring reflection on Children by The Prophet/Kahlil Gibran - Your children are not your children. They are the sons and daughters of Life's longing for Itself. They come through you but not from you, and though they are with you, yet they belong not to you. You may give them your love, but not your thoughts, for they have their own thoughts. You may house their bodies but not their souls, for their souls dwell in the house of tomorrow, which you cannot visit, not even in your dreams. You may strive to be like them, but seek not to make them like you for life goes not backwards nor tarries with yesterday. You are the bows from which your children as living arrows are sent forth. The Archer sees the mark upon the path of the infinite, and He bends you with His might that His arrows may go swift and far. Let your bending in the Archer's hand be for gladness; For even as He loves the arrows that flies, so He loves also the bow that is stable.

Bean bag is good. After a couple of years, substitute beans with gravel. Another couple of years down the road, ditch the gravel for ball bearings. This article recommends something similar - http://www.livestrong.com/article/411071-kung-fu-iron-techniques/ A neighbor from years back used to train with bamboo rods coated with resin which he then smothers with sand and then left to dry. Over time he would go from fine grade to coarse grade silica. Every evening he or his unwilling brother would use this as a flagellation tool. He even entertained the silly idea of one day using fine, powdered glass instead, and work up from there. His poor mother thought he had gone pure nutty nutz.

Thumbs up! Thanks for taking the time, Blasto. The prodigal son's father did not say to him, "You remain in the pigsty, son - we're soon gonna make it into a nicer pigsty". Thank god for the evolution of consciousness...

Yes, its unwise to over-emphasize, in general. This has a tendency to sow immeasurable seeds of fixation, giving rise to unforeseen, complex, often imaginary agitations which fuel further unease in a person. An interesting attitude to habituate is to go about daily life with as much mindfulness as possible while simultaneously retaining/resting the mind in the vast expanse of space-like non-conceptual view. The essence of mind is space. What arises from space naturally returns to space. Fixative and aversive tendencies are traits that set off causal and reactive intertwining chains, and precisely these are the stagnating 'hooks' which creates karmic consequences. Once caught, life churns up an unfortunate series of reactive, often compensatory scenarios, so that the one caught cannot do anything else but spend every microgram of available energy and time to try and make sense of things, which only lead to more problematic (but avoidable) scenarios. No wonder chronic tiredness is such a common dis-ease nowadays. Training in mindful awareness, a painstaking process to say the least, helps one to remove these hooks one by one. This unravelling process, however, takes time and unrelenting honest self-appraisals, plenty of it, which could be very unnerving - yet, as the hooks disengage, imaginary wounds heal, like beautiful magic. As this begin to manifest, the associated sense of being is one of fulfillment, lightness, humor, spaciousness, gratitude, humility, enjoyment of stillness even as the peripheral world clamor for activity and distractiveness, and.... last but not least, one uncovers, in the interim, what is meant by a gradual return to sanity. The comfort i derive from following a specific path of mindfulness is the enjoyment i get from learning that i need not expend energy on the anxieties of life, but this very same energy can be channelled, in a grateful sort of way, to the simple things that make life worthwhile, and all it takes is a bit of direct attentiveness to what is at hand. The more attentive one is, the more omniscient one becomes. Life is short - tis good to indulge in a long, hard look, once in a while, to see where one's priorities lie. Someone once said, "There are 200 million poor, starving souls in the world who would gladly take the vow of poverty if only they could eat one square meal a day, go to sleep without parched throats, have a home like myself and many others who loudly profess the vows of godliness". This is not being over-emphatic.

Very well observed, Mister O. I personally do not see the possibility of any end-goal/destination. But that's just me. You appear to share this view too. My take has always been that we have never left the 'destination', and any attempt to hack around, scything thru imaginary obstacles in the hope of clearing a path which leads to transcendence, and eventually, Enlightenment, is only duping oneself and reinforcing delusion. Meditation practice/contemplation/introspection can serve to clear away the clouds, the smoke and haze - revealing the original state, the original mind, the primordial nature of a mind which abides in non-dual awareness. Such a mind does not grasp at mental/emotional arisings, but merely allows such to appear and recede without the need to make additional contributions, that is, there is a courageous and simple refusal to stir these movements of thoughts so that they are free to come and go. Only then will the energy that stoke the dramas, the games, the stories, which then fan the flames of desire, gradually lose its momentum. After years of such discipline, of what purpose is concerning oneself with what Enlightenment is or is not, or if one is close to or far from it.

This is only because your measurement of 'less than a second' is relative only to your pre-conditioned/limited definition of what a second is. As the conventional mind diminishes, and it will, after you have spent quality time with the masters, you might see and feel that a second is no longer a second, conventionally speaking that is. And you are right... its verifiable that many high-level yogis are present in the Himalayan regions, namely Bhutan, Nepal, Tibet and parts of the northern borders of India. Also in Tamil Nadu, i was told.

Nothing ambiguous here, sir. Psychological integrity can be cultivated by simply understanding the 3 Marks, and one who seeks to do just this has no further duty to abide by any of the other Buddhist precepts unless there is a willingness to devote one's life to servitude of the Dharma and the Bodhisattva ideal, otherwise there will be the likelihood of making the mind even more murky because the western mind is not ready for subservience and servitude, at least not as ready as the eastern one. Having lived in the west for so long, i have met a good few Westerners who practice Buddhism, but without any clue that they also have to fully allow Buddhism to practice them. The struggle at reconciling this dualistic dilemma is still very much on-going for this select group of practitioners.

As Matsuo Basho observed, "Even when In Kyoto, when i hear the cuckoo's cry, I long for Kyoto...". As long as one is searching and seeking, getting close to "finding" will be difficult. Thats all.

The 'Three Principle Aspects of the Path" by Lama Tsongkhapa - "Appearances are infallible dependent arisings; Voidness is free of assertions. As long as these two assertions are seen as separate, one has not yet realized the intent of the Buddha. When these two realizations are simultaneous and concurrent, from a mere sight of infallible dependent origination comes certain knowledge that completely destroys all modes of mental grasping. At that time, analysis of the profound View is complete. Appearances clear away the extreme of existence; Voidness clears away the extreme of non-existence. When one understands the arising of cause and effect from the viewpoint of voidness, one escapes being captivated by either extreme view." Emptiness, from the standpoint of Buddhist Tantrayana, does not allude to the position of "I dont know". This notion of Emptiness serves to incite the contemplator to investigate if the self truly exists independently, from its own side, meaning that the self manifested without cause, or is the self dependent on many factors and sub-factors to spark and sustain its existence. Therefore, upon realization, the contemplator can acknowledge with faith that indeed the self is empty of inherent selfhood, but instead is made up of 'things' which in themselves are not 'self' - things here meaning all the variants and elements coming together, that bring about 'self', and thru time, dissipate, only to reform as some other 'self'. Therefore, it can be said that self indeed does exist and not exist simultaneously, but this self is always empty of "I"ness, "My"ness, and "Mine"ness. There is an appearance of self, yet the self that appears is also manifesting the void as it appears. One can either view this appearance/voidness in its entirety, which requires no engagement of intellect, or intellectualize the appearance and dissipation of self as two distinct phases, which then necessitates a sense of recollection of an image of self, then no-self, the reformation of this self, and so on.... but such mental evaluations can only always take place in the past tense, which, as in all things that have passed, cannot be reality as is, but merely a fragment of a reality that was. To aid further investigation, it would be very helpful not to dismiss Lama Tsongkhapa's words (above) lightly. "The conception of ego is an extreme mind. It clings very concretely to the idea that somewhere within this bubble of the combination body there exists a self-existent 'I'. This is the misconception that we must release." - Lama Thubten Yeshe

Excellent approach this. I agree, there is always something else... Unfortunately many of us remain stuck in a particular emotional cesspool and choose to remain there as a victim, clamoring for attention while in it - "look at me, look at my hatred, my fears, my insecurities!!". Unintentionally, these sort of claim-laying on one's shortcomings often strengthen and reinforces the viciousness of the circle. Some do this simply to divert focus on the real issues. So there will follow a lot of covering up, compensation, justification, and parrying of imagined onslaughts that are all based on ignoring the root cause(s), which, in my experience, is nothing but ignorance stemming from dishonest appraisals. To get out, one may want to investigate deeply what is meant by 'ignorance' - as an entree, first.