Mark Foote

On July 16, 1054, Patriarch of Constantinople Michael Cerularius was excommunicated from the Christian church based in Rome, Italy. Cerularius’s excommunication was a breaking point in long-rising tensions between the Roman church based in Rome and the Byzantine church based in Constantinople (now called Istanbul). The resulting split divided the European Christian church into two major branches: the Western Roman Catholic Church and the Eastern Orthodox Church. This split is known as the Great Schism, or sometimes the “East-West Schism” or the “Schism of 1054.” The Great Schism came about due to a complex mix of religious disagreements and political conflicts. One of the many religious disagreements between the western (Roman) and eastern (Byzantine) branches of the church had to do with whether or not it was acceptable to use unleavened bread for the sacrament of communion. (The west supported the practice, while the east did not.) Other objects of religious dispute include the exact wording of the Nicene Creed and the Western belief that clerics should remain celibate. These religious disagreements were made worse by a variety of political conflicts, particularly regarding the power of Rome. Rome believed that the pope—the religious leader of the western church—should have authority over the patriarch—the religious authority of the eastern church. Constantinople disagreed. Each church recognized their own leaders, and when the western church eventually excommunicated Michael Cerularius and the entire eastern church. The eastern church retaliated by excommunicating the Roman pope Leo III and the Roman church with him. While the two churches have never reunited, over a thousand years after their split, the western and eastern branches of Christianity came to more peaceable terms. In 1965, Pope Paul VI and Patriarch Athenagoras I lifted the longstanding mutual excommunication decrees made by their respective churches. (https://education.nationalgeographic.org/resource/great-schism/)

Seriously, though: ... a good [person], by passing quite beyond the plane of neither-perception-nor-non-perception, enters on and abides in the stopping of perception and feeling; and when [such a person] has seen by means of wisdom [their] cankers are caused to be destroyed. And… this [person] does not imagine [him or her self] to be aught or anywhere or in anything. (MN III 42-45, Vol III pg 92-94) I don't expect to get there (conscious experience of feeling and perceiving in the absence of volition). As I wrote in my most recent post: Shunryu Suzuki described the true practice of seated meditation as “just sitting”, meaning that “doing something” in the act of sitting has ceased. I believe, as Gautama the Buddha said, that the cessation of “doing something” in speech, body, or mind is a contact of freedom. ... I practice more now, as I see that the cessation I experience in “just sitting” helps to provide a sense of timing in my life, a sense of timing that seems related to a whole beyond what I can know. (The Practice of Time) "A whole beyond what I can know"--that's more of a "self" than Gautama acknowledged, I'll admit, but it's really not about a "thing" but about action. As Dogen put it: Although actualized immediately, the inconceivable may not be apparent. (Genjo Koan, tr Tanahashi)

old3bob and the notion of Self:

It's an interesting point. I believe that in the first four Nikayas, at least, Gautama usually stopped at "who I am not", as here: Whatever… is material shape, past, future or present, internal or external, gross or subtle, mean or excellent, or whatever is far or near, (a person), thinking of all this material shape as ‘This is not mine, this am I not, this is not my self’, sees it thus as it really is by means of perfect wisdom. Whatever is feeling… perception… the habitual tendencies… whatever is consciousness, past, future, or present (that person), thinking of all this consciousness as ‘This is not mine, this am I not, this is not my self’, sees it thus as it really is by means of perfect wisdom. (For one) knowing thus, seeing thus, there are no latent conceits that ‘I am the doer, mine is the doer’ in regard to this consciousness-informed body.” (MN III 18-19, Pali Text Society Vol. III pg 68) I see that as a major difference between the teachings of Gautama, and the teachings found in most other wisdom traditions.

maybe more later but for right now, gone splashing out in the desert

... in the end I am convinced that everything I need to know I learn by being where I am, as I am. I just have to be open to it. (yers truly, from Post: “I tried your practice last night”- humbleone, from “The Dao Bums”)

This place is goin' to the dogs...

The classic cases of Ch'an and Zen were what got my attention. Read a lot of Alan Watts, back in the high school days, but although I understood what he had to say, I was not satisfied with my mind. A friend turned me on to the zazen instructions in the back of "Three Pillars of Zen", so I began to sit--it was hard to sit even five minutes with my legs crossed, at first. In college, a friend took me down to hear Kobun Chino Otogawa speak at the Santa Cruz Zen Center, in California. I attended a number of his lectures, and found him remarkable. In about 1975, I found a copy of Henry Clarke Warren's "Buddhism in Translations". The material from Buddhaghosa's Visuddhimagga was clearly garbage to me, and there's a lot of it in Warren's work, but the material from the Nikayas about the concentrations fascinated me. In the early '80's, I bought the books of the first four Nikayas from the Pali Text Society, and over the course of a few years read them. They're not different from Zen, when you get right down to it (A reconciliation of Theravadin and Zen practice).

Your worship will become a deva? No indeed, brahmin. I'll not become a deva. Then your worship will become a gandarva? No indeed, brahmin, I'll not become a gandarva. A yakka, then? No indeed, brahmin. Not a yakka. Then your worship will become a human being? No indeed, brahmin. I'll not become a human being. ... Who then, pray, will your worship become? ... Just as, brahmin, a lotus, blue, red, or white, though born in the water, grown up in the water, when it reaches the surface stands there unsoiled by the water,--just so, brahmin, though born in the world, grown up in the world, having overcome the world, I abide unsoiled by the world. Take it that I am a Buddha, brahmin. (AN Book of Fours 36, Pali Text Society AN Vol 2 p 44)

As far as favorites, I think that would have to be Maha-Parinibbana Sutta, because of a few things Gautama said in that sutta: (from Part Two: The Journey to Vesali) 32. ... What more does the community of bhikkhus expect from me, Ananda? I have set forth the Dhamma without making any distinction of esoteric and exoteric doctrine; there is nothing, Ananda, with regard to the teachings that the Tathagata holds to the last with the closed fist of a teacher who keeps some things back. Now I am frail, Ananda, old, aged, far gone in years. This is my eightieth year, and my life is spent. Even as an old cart, Ananda, is held together with much difficulty, so the body of the Tathagata is kept going only with supports. It is, Ananda, only when the Tathagata, disregarding external objects, with the cessation of certain feelings, attains to and abides in the signless concentration of mind, [19] that his body is more comfortable. 33. "Therefore, Ananda, be islands unto yourselves, refuges unto yourselves, seeking no external refuge; with the Dhamma as your island, the Dhamma as your refuge, seeking no other refuge. "And how, Ananda, is a bhikkhu an island unto himself, a refuge unto himself, seeking no external refuge; with the Dhamma as his island, the Dhamma as his refuge, seeking no other refuge? 34. "When he dwells contemplating the body in the body, earnestly, clearly comprehending, and mindfully, after having overcome desire and sorrow in regard to the world; when he dwells contemplating feelings in feelings, the mind in the mind, and mental objects in mental objects, earnestly, clearly comprehending, and mindfully, after having overcome desire and sorrow in regard to the world, then, truly, he is an island unto himself, a refuge unto himself, seeking no external refuge; having the Dhamma as his island, the Dhamma as his refuge, seeking no other refuge. 35. "Those bhikkhus of mine, Ananda, who now or after I am gone, abide as an island unto themselves, as a refuge unto themselves, seeking no other refuge; having the Dhamma as their island and refuge, seeking no other refuge: it is they who will become the highest, [20] if they have the desire to learn." (from Part Six: The Passing Away) 8. ... Behold now, bhikkhus, I exhort you: All compounded things are subject to vanish. Strive with earnestness! (DN 16 PTS: D ii 72 chapters 1-6 "Maha-parinibbana Sutta: Last Days of the Buddha", tr Sister Vajira & Francis Story, © 1998) My favorite translation of that last would be: "Everything changes. Work out your own salvation!"

Deceptive relief, 'cause it's only a foot deep still, a sight to see photo by James Marvin Phelps, Lake Manly in the Mojave a few days ago

There's a missing ingredient in all the wisdom traditions, IMHO--it's missing because it must be supplied through the experience of the individual. But usually in counting breathing or following breathing, you feel as if you are doing something, you know– you are following breathing, and you are counting breathing. This is, you know, why counting breathing or following breathing practice is, you know, for us it is some preparation– preparatory practice for shikantaza because for most people it is rather difficult to sit, you know, just to sit. (“The Background of Shikantaza”, Shunryu Suzuki; San Francisco, February 22, 1970) Suzuki said that directing attention to the movement of breath (“following breathing… counting breathing”) has the feeling of “doing something”, and that “doing something” makes such practice only preparatory. Although attention can be directed to the movement of breath, necessity in the movement of breath can also direct attention, as I wrote previously: There can… come a moment when the movement of breath necessitates the placement of attention at a certain location in the body, or at a series of locations, with the ability to remain awake as the location of attention shifts retained through the exercise of presence. There’s a frailty in the structure of the lower spine, and the movement of breath can place the point of awareness in such a fashion as to engage a mechanism of support for the spine, often in stages. ... The flow of “doing something” in the body, of activity initiated by habit or volition, (can cease). Instead, activity is generated purely by the placement of attention, and the location of attention can flow ("just sitting"). ... The difficulty is that most people will lose consciousness before they cede activity to the location of attention–they lose the presence of mind with the placement of attention, because they can’t believe that action in the body is possible without “doing something”... (Shunryu Suzuki on Shikantaza and the Theravadin Stages) That the activity flows and develops in particular patterns and particular locations, won't matter whose description is in hand if it's all "doing something". Doing nothing, yet everything is done, is an experience.

College days, out at Gazos Creek above Santa Cruz, letting the wind play harmonics on the guitar strings: Learned to play this in the college days--Fahey was so weird, but such a strong alternating thumb beat.

California dreams an island of sun and sand lakes in the desert

I reworked one of my previous posts on this thread into a post on my own website. Bindi, my apologies--I know anything having to do with the teachings of Gautama the Shakyan is like some kind of shadow-side distraction to you... The Practice of Time One does not become enlightened by imagining figures of light, but by making the darkness conscious. The latter procedure, however, is disagreeable and therefore not popular. (Carl Jung: The Philosophical Tree; Collected Works 13: Alchemical Studies. Paragraph 335) Shunryu Suzuki described the true practice of seated meditation as “just sitting”, meaning that “doing something” in the act of sitting has ceased. I believe, as Gautama the Buddha said, that the cessation of “doing something” in speech, body, or mind is a contact of freedom. I don’t think the integration of childhood memories, pre-speech memories, and inured emotional responses can take place apart from that cessation of “doing something” in the body and mind and that contact of freedom. I practice more now, as I see that the cessation I experience in “just sitting” helps to provide a sense of timing in my life, a sense of timing that seems related to a whole beyond what I can know. I’m not looking to become enlightened, or to make the darkness conscious. … time, just as it is, is being, and being is all time. (Dogen: “Uji (Being-Time)”; “The Heart of Dōgen’s Shōbōgenzō”, tr by Waddell, Norman; Abe, Masao. SUNY Press. 2001. p 48) (The Practice of Time)

Just now, Yin and Yang the Siamese cats, went out should'a seen 'em go

Shunryu Suzuki described the true practice of seated meditation as "just sitting", meaning that "doing something" in the act of sitting has ceased. What I find is that I have to constantly relearn the way my body and mind sit. I think that's because as the two coordinate to relinquish "doing" in sitting, I develop more feeling for my body and for my senses, and that changes the path to "just sitting" for the next time around. I believe, as Gautama the Buddha said, that the cessation of "doing something" in speech, body, or mind is a contact of freedom. I don't think the integration of childhood memories, pre-speech memories, and inured emotional responses can take place apart from that cessation of "doing something" in the body and mind and that contact of freedom. I practice more now, as I see that thought directed to the cessation I experience in "just sitting" (if not the actual experience of cessation) helps to make a sense of timing in my life, a sense of timing that seems related to a whole beyond what I can know. (apologies for the extensive editing after posting--what matters in the post is so much clearer after I hit "save"! )

The language of the unconscious for me comes through my experience of awareness by necessity, of awareness taking place out of necessity. The necessity can be the necessity for breath, it can be the necessity for support for the structure of the spine, or it can be a necessity arising from somewhere outside the boundaries of my senses. Underlying emotion and consequent action is the work of a lifetime, to square with the free placement of attention out of necessity experienced in the movement of breath, yet the understanding is out of the free placement of attention and not the other way around. I see that it's possible to realize activity solely by virtue of the free placement of attention, with regard to inhalation and exhalation. If I can practice that, and then touch on that during the day, maybe I can come to an understanding through grace of underlying emotion and action. My only shot, I think.

I liked the quotes from Jung in your original post, but I found the explanations by whoever authored the article uninspired. Daniel Goleman in "Emotional Intelligence" attributes the impulsive actions that overwhelm our better judgement to memories from before we had speech, stored in the amygdala. I think it's true that we have to come to terms with action whose source is in the unconscious, and with action whose source is in our innermost belief. If we don't permit ourselves to examine carefully what we truly believe, and especially the actions manifested from those beliefs, then we are two mints in one (so to speak). The question is how do we relinquish volition to the action of the unconscious, how do we remain conscious as action of the unconscious takes place, as action out of our innermost beliefs plays out like a hypnotist's suggestion in the action of a subject under hypnosis. I would suggest through the sense of place associated with awareness, from moment to moment. When “doing something” has ceased, and there is “not one particle of the body” that cannot receive the placement of attention, then the placement of attention is free to shift as necessary in the movement of breath. When a presence of mind is retained as the placement of attention shifts, then the natural tendency toward the free placement of attention can draw out thought initial and sustained, and bring on the stages of concentration. Shunryu Suzuki said: To enjoy our life– complicated life, difficult life– without ignoring it, and without being caught by it. Without suffer from it. That is actually what will happen to us after you practice zazen (“just sitting”). (“To Actually Practice Selflessness”, August Sesshin Lecture Wednesday, August 6, 1969, San Francisco; parenthetical explanation added) I practice now to experience the free placement of attention as the sole source of activity in the body in the movement of breath, and in my “complicated, difficult” daily life, I look for the mindfulness that allows me to touch on that freedom. ("To Enjoy Our Life")

I'd like to do that (delete the posts I quote that you delete), but my fingers won't lift to the keyboard. I think that's because I don't find your posts overly offensive, although I can see where on some occasions they might be embarassing to you. I hope you'll forgive me. Let's have a look at you, then.

You look great, liminal, unbridled optimism and all!

Why is it that you look exactly as I imagined you to look--ha ha!

Why is it that you look exactly how I imagined you would look!

I think is that precisely why? Steve, buddy--you have misattributed the quote to me. You will have to ask liminal_luke, although I don't know if he's really willing to go there right now. p.s.--I see where he went there, yay Liminal!