NeiChuan

If I did, then I wouldn't have said "no, I don't" as many times as I have.

 

 

 

And as I have said- if you speak generally, there are going to be generalizations, and there will be exceptions to every rule, and exceptions that prove the rule, and everything in between and beyond.

 

If you have a problem with something or seek clarification, it would greatly help to point out what specifically you have issue with so that both parties can zero in on a more specific detail, rather than slinging around equally general and vague responses which don't seem to be based on whatever critique you have and which leave the other party guessing as to what you meant.

 

 

 

I read it, but you've crossed streams in the conversation, and aren't answering the question that I was referring to.

 

You: Display your points with detail.

Me: If you speak about things in general, you are going to have generalizations.

You: But where does it end?

Me: What do you mean by that?

You: You know what I mean.

Me: No, I don't.

You: Yes, you do. So add detail.

Me: But if you speak generally about something (especially a broad topic like martial arts), you won't know what to add the detail about, hence when speaking generally, you have generalizations.

You: Yes, but where does it end?

Me: I still don't know what you mean by that question.

You: Yes you do. I've said it before you just didn't read.

 

 

So what do you mean by "where does it end"?

 

I assume by "it" you mean "the generalizations". But I don't know for certain. See this is exactly what I mean when I suggested that it'd be swell of you to actually be specific about what you take issue with or what you are referring to. Because I'm sitting here guessing, and you're leaving responses and I don't even know what you're referring to. Which is ironic, because you're the one telling me to add detail!

 

Haha.

Look back in my replies and tell me if you find it.

I meant the generalizations (which have mentioned in almost every post above this one). Generalizing once in awhile isn't bad, but when it's all of your examples there's a problem.

Where does it end? When you generalize every example you give you aren't doing anyone very good, being that's not how it is. It's a generalization.

No, actually, I don't.

 

You know exactly what I imply. I meant just to display your points with the sufficient details without generalizing to the point your perspective appears vague.

Just said it again, didn't look like you read it.

Sure about that? I'd hate for someone to have to read a "novel" length response just to make sure I get in all the appropriate details.

 

You complained about my first post in this thread already. Imagine how long it'd have been if I had put in all the exceptions, disclaimers, and acknowledged whatever counter cases I could think of just so I could cover the bases to make you (or someone like you) happy.

 

Cover everything- post is too long.

Don't cover everything- people think you don't know what you're talking about.

 

Damned if you do, damned if you don't.

lol Oh jeez. You know exactly what I imply. I meant just to display your points with the sufficient details without generalizing to the point your perspective appears vague.

If you do that, go ahead and write a long post.

Yeah, what do you mean by that?

 

If you talk about things in general, you are going to make generalizations.

Just because you're somewhat generalizing you don't have to step over all details, plenty are still useful.

Is this conversation over now? haha

Not quite sure what you mean.

The generalizations

 

And I generally read that into any post anybody makes when talking about large swaths of people, institutions, governments, movements, etc etc etc. Any time you speak about something generally you are going to make generalizations, and you are going to find examples within those populations that run counter to the generalized statement.

 

 

 

Yea but then where does it end?

I'd hardly call a handful of sentences and one whole paragraph a novel.

 

Next time you can be more specific about what exactly you have issue with so I can clarify at once, rather than your leaving ambiguous and possibly insulting statements of "bull" and "you don't know what you're talking about", to which I then have to send out a shotgun shot of potential responses, thus increasing the length of the post with which someone (in this case, you) will invariably have some kind of further issue.

 

And I'm sure learning to read a little won't kill you, and might even prove to be a useful life skill.

 

haha

Was referring to your first post on the thread. I said when you make assumptions it makes you look like "you don't know what you're talking about".

Also if you began with your previous point the conversation wouldn't have lasted so long and we would have gotten on with our day. You wouldn't have to increase the length of your post. Words that hold weight won't need a dozen other points of beating around the bush.

"And I'm sure learning to read a little won't kill you, and might even prove to be a useful life skill."

Also that's possibly more "insulting" then "bull". Just because you add a haha doesn't mean people don't see your innuendo.

It wasn't very good though haha, so I don't take any offence.

 

 

 

My point is that, on your average walk down your street in your average city with your average population, you are more likely to find an external school training practically than you are likely to find an internal school training the same, let alone an empty force school.

 

This was all that was needed, next time you don't have to write a novel in response.

haha

Self Development.

But that can mean anything to any one person.

Sorry to disappoint you.

If this is your main goal right now, you've already started with the wrong foot.

 

Any form of Chi Kung will get you there. Only and only if you are determined to get there by practicing. First, you must know what Chi Kung is all about.

Im pretty sure that's perspective. There are successful Masters, and im sure between one and the other their answer for what chi kung is "all about" would be different.

Or atleast for all of them wouldn't be the Same.

Neichuan

Is dan-tien like a muscle tissue that we can grow it...???

It's like one of Bruce Lees muscles. Small, but packs a huge punch.

Except for his deltoids ofcourse. They were huge.

How so?

 

 

 

I'm not generalizing them as health nuts (though people who do well in amateur circuits, want to go up to the pro level, and those in the pro levels do have to take care of their bodies, and most do a pretty damn good job of that, even if it is only in training camps, which last for months at a time). I am saying that the average person who trains MMA, even at an amateur level, is most likely getting healthier than the average tai chi or qigong practitioner. I am making this based on how I KNOW MMAists train (based on those I know and have trained with), and based on how I KNOW tai chi and qigong people train (based on those I know and those who I have visited, as none live near me, though I did take a look at their training schedules).

 

In a fight, you'd have person A, who routinely ups their heart rate, trains to develop muscle, and practices overcoming the mental and physical challenges of having to deal with someone trying to knock them out or submit them, fighting person B, who probably does little to up their heart rate, and most likely trains against a mostly compliant and only semi-resistant partner in very narrow fighting situations, such as not fighting on the ground or in the clinch.

 

So yes, I am betting that person A will defeat person B, and I am saying that person A most likely has more chi, healthier chi, and a stronger intent than person B.

 

So please explain to me how any of that is "bull".

 

Of course, this is all assuming the veracity of the chi paradigm. I thought that was pretty clear from the way I was outlining the dynamics, but I guess not. If you don't believe in chi, then it's just one person who is doing something that doesn't exist as he is getting beat up.

 

So, yeah, if you don't believe in the chi paradigm, you don't have to respond.

You're over analyzing about something you don't know.

Also who is to say there aren't plenty of internal martial artists that train hard? there are most definitely people who work to make their internal arts into contact arts by sparring daily aswell.

You may not think so but you are generalizing alot.. Which doesn't help your argument, it just makes you look like you don't know what you're talking about.

What I was saying was bull was the fact that, the person trying to throw that person with their energy. Was delusional, and the person teaching them had mislead them. If he was practicing an effective art that uses energy, he would know he could do it. Instead he thought he knew because his friends jumped around for him.

By the way when you say MMA fighters routinely upping their heart rate, do you mean a strenuous cardio workout? Because I mentioned a small run to an MMA guy I know that just took a trip to Thailand. and His response was a gaping mouth because I was running 2 miles without music, every morning. If I can do 2 miles in my first run, it's not alot.

And plenty of fighters don't know what strenuous cardio is.

Neichuan

Hi Mass Taoism,

 

Although you thread is a worthy topic I doubt you will get many responses as one very similar to this ran its course a couple months ago.

 

For myself, I am a Philosophical Taoist. Taoist philosophy is the root of my conduct in life. The principles being the guideposts along my journey.

Hey but what's the harm? We all Progress right?

Maybe a thread like this will be a good marker for said Progress.

Neichuan

So think of it this way...

 

Your intent moves your chi, and you use that chi to move the other person, right? So that chi has to go through your body, across the "empty" space, then to the other person, and have enough impact to affect their physical body.

 

So to do that, you have to have a REALLY damn good intent. You also have to have REALLY strong chi. There are a lot of ways to cultivate intent, and a lot of ways to cultivate strong chi. But for the sake of comparing these masters to, say, an MMA fighter, I'll use some specific ones.

 

You can cultivate intent by overcoming hardships. Keeping your eye on the prize, and never stopping until you get it. So in your MMA workouts you get to the end and you keep going. Someone is punching your face in, they are a better fighter than you, your body is screaming in pain, and you fight back. You fight until someone is pouring a bucket of water on your head and you're waking up. You finally win, and you feel like it's worth it.

 

Compare that to how many qigong people train. Not that many do it to that extent for as long as even amateur MMAists go. 25-45 minutes? An hour every other day? Even amateur fighters struggling to make ends meet can get a DAILY workout regiment, at least an couple of hours every day (wake up and run before work, for instance), etc. So in the intent category, on average, no comparison.

 

How do you get strong chi? Taking care of your body and getting things to flow. Many MMAists, even amateurs, have really healthy bodies. They have to have them. They are flexible yet strong. They eat right and they stay away from stuff that hurts their bodies. Their body is their meal ticket. Good workout + good nutrition + strong intent = lots of clear, strong moving chi.

 

Compare this to the "chi bellies" that many qigong people have. I've seen some people leave comments on aikido videos on youtube saying "it's actually better to be fat, because then you are harder to throw".

 

 

Right, so then we come to the contest- the chi guy has to project chi in such a way that it overcomes the physicality and the chi of the MMAist. Meanwhile, the MMAist, who already has a lot of strong chi and intent, is using their intent AND their physical body.

 

So who do you REALLY think is going to win?

 

 

Now there are serious internal martial artists and qigong people who cultivate in the same levels and intensity that MMAists train. But those people usually don't put up videos showing them beating up MMAists. So, you know.

Bull.

I don't see why you try and generalize MMA Fighters as health nuts either. Cause it doesn't sound like you know any.

Also if it takes 100% of his mind to fail at throwing someone with his energy, for him.. at the time.. It's impossible. Either because he isn't strong enough.. or what he's doing is made up.

Simple as that.

Neichuan

Tulku

 

but have fun with your triangle breathing.

 

Bringing the chi down to the dantian condensing and spinning it is all low level btw.

 

Especially when there's no energy to be condensed.

More like 45 minutes for some

It gets worse. They might be underestimating the cost. 33 kilograms (1,164 oz) of gold would be about $16 million. edit it might use 'just' 3.3 kilograms, gold spreads well.

 

It totally ignores LaoTze's teaching. A large inexpensive stone statue would last a long time and not need men to guard it. Making it shiny and valuable means paradoxically its lesser creation.

Are you surprised?

There are super churches all over the US.

Thanks ,I liked yours too.Infact I gave it +1.

I put my heart into it honestly. Glad someone acknowledged it. I mean look at that grammar.

I have just been reading about contemporary yogis and practicioners and there is a bit in it that mentiones about an Aghori Tantric and his sadhana and consort where they materliazed a house in a place of shack .And some similar practises involving matter manipulation ,metamorphosising etc.

So hmmmm..maybe someone is out there playing?

 

I dont necessary believe whatever I read about ,but I dont necessary disbelieve either.

It is an intersting find,cant guess as to what and why and if.

Great Post

 

@Friend -- Don't exactly like his website either, it is quite messy. Take my testimonial though, this guy is a little more advanced than your average joe who meditates for half an hour every second day.

 

I'll report back to this thread when and if we meet him again.

 

A&L

 

I Like websites like that.

Gives a Feel im finding something hidden.

Neichuan

THERE ARE A LOT OF CHINESE MASTERS CAN DO THAT.....

And a good amount can make you fly away even when you don't have negative emotions.

Shouldn't the guy at 2:48 beflying away?

Wish I was there so I could debunk this group. I honestly find making lightbulbs unbreakable alot more interesting then delusional students.

I don't see anything wrong with what he did, though I wasn't there. I hope those people who taunted him and tried to manhandle him learned their lesson.

Strange thing was the vibe of the people bothering him was implied as though they weren't really doing much.

But they leave out the detail of how cruel people can be to the vulnerable. Im about 99% sure they deserved it.

I know a doctor out in the Chinese country side who routinely treats bone fusions and malformations, however he keeps his formula a secret. If anyone wants to go through the lengthy process of becoming his disciple and spending years winning over his trust, maybe you could get it out of him. Two components are vinegar and iron dust, the other herbs are a mystery to me.

 

That said, I'm a believer practice can accomplish anything herbs can and more. Perhaps with proper, long term practice this could be reversible. Certainly bones spurs are treatable with renewed stretching and circulation in the intracellular matrix. In terms of Chinese medicine, and thus the language of Daoist cultivation, bone fusion is a manifestation of cold. It's a very, very common condition these days in our sedentary culture. Any basic practice that restores heat to its root in the lower dantian will have an added effect of warming the spine.

 

Seems like the KAP / Umaatantra guys offer a good program for this, though I haven't attended it myself. A good TCM doctor who is experienced with the aconite/fuzi family of formulas would be another alternative (but in the wrong hands this herb is poisonous, don't play doctor with yourself, or run wild with my cursory diagnosis on this one).

 

SYD

May I ask if this particular Doctor use to reside in Taiwan?

well, it probably really sucks to be disturbed while in DEEP meditation.

how come he didnt have a couple of guys there standing watch to prevent that from

happening. he beat them up, not the other way around, right?

I've mentioned this to multiple qi gong teachers. They all pretty much say the same thing.

It's very very inconsiderate/annoying when people disturb you when you're taking what time in the day you have, to find peace. Or do inner alchemy.. Same thing really.

Neichuan