effilang

Because I feel like it.

 

That is the lack of honor and integrity within a Martial Artist. To knowingly take advantage of someone less capable, for the sake of satisfying "personal feelings".

 

We do not study the Martial Arts (internally or externally) to "show off" or be "offensive" aimlessly. It is the first rule thought in any respectable school...

Just because I have "graduated from my ego" doesn't mean I can't compete in a fighting competition.

 

Just because I don't have anything to prove doesn't mean I can't be there.

 

If I had the level of development that many masters claim to have and could do some of the things those stories say some of those masters could do, I'd step into the ring, face the guy, deflect his attack, stand in the middle of the ring, with my guard down (that way he will keep attacking and the fight wouldn't be stopped because neither of us were doing anything), and keep deflecting his attacks. I'd use my rooting power to prevent being taken down. If it looks like I'll be hit, I'll use direct qi to that area so when he hits he will hurt his hand a bit (but not break it).

 

I'd do that for 3-5 rounds, then proceed to be declared the winner because I controlled a dominant position in the ring for the entire time.

 

Then everyone will know of my style, and people would study it and practice it for years to come...

 

And that story is pretty much how every traditional martial art (including the internal martial arts), came to prominence.

 

I never said, one cannot do, but i will say that one never does without reason or purpose, even when seeking union with the Tao... one is seeking.

 

If you can tell me why you would do what you just explained up there. Your motivation and reason for doing it and your expectations. Then you will answer your own question.

 

The moment you chose to do something, it means you are physically manifesting and acting upon a desire. Desires are not bad or wrong on their own, it is the nature and constitution of the desire that defines the level of a true Master in my opinion. And one need not be a master to apply this principle to their daily lives.

 

PS: goldisheavy. i do not agree with you that intent or belief in something is all that is required, the something and its effectiveness is just as important as the level of dedication, intent, belief. So i think you need to ask yourself what is more powerful, the internal or the external? - Then ask yourself: why you are registered at Tao Bums. : )

I don't think you understand what's going on in this case. In this case, it's a contest of wills. It's a clash between two worldviews. In one worldview, qi energy projections are real. In another they are not. What you don't understand is that neither worldview is inherently correct, and what actually manifests depends on many factors. Hard stylist has his intent not only on his style and on kicking your ass, but his intent is also magickally maintaining a reality in which qi simply does not exist.

 

This is why hard-core skeptics always find nothing but fraud when they search for magick. Why is that? Because skeptic's mind is just as magickal! That's why! A skeptic can create his reality just as much as the magick user can create hers. See the point? Skeptics and physicalists run on the same set of batteries as Buddhas.

 

So while it's possible to overcome all that with an internal style, don't assume it is a given. You must have a very superior insight and very strong belief in your reality. Stronger than your opponent. It's not trivial, especially if you yourself started out with the same beliefs about the world as the hard stylist. Then you're actually at a disadvantage, because while you worked to change your perception of the world, hard stylist focused on kicking more ass. So you have some catching up to do.

 

A brute man can damage someones liver with a punch.

 

A likewise brute man, who studied the internal arts can not only cause the same damage with a physical punch, but also heal that liver afterwards and balance it's energy and reduce the side effects of that damage.

 

One is only cultivated internally, the other externally. If a man believes with all his heart that he makes the best donuts in the world, while another believes with all his heart that he is the best archer in the world. You can't expect to put both of them in a ring, give one guy donuts and the other guy a drawn bow and expect the baker to win, just because he has STRONG intent and belief. Is is WHAT you believe in also and what you practice that matters and internal power to me, is greater than external.

 

The limited extent to which the every day MMA professionals' mind is cultivated, only goes as far as the intent they have trained over the years to help the mind overcome the body and push the muscles harder.

 

Water need not go through the still rock, but simply envelops it and streams around it effortlessly. The rock may believe to be strong and unmovable, with big muscles and a strong mind to push those muscles further and harder against the water, but the water cares not of this... and soon enough the rock is eroded.

Again I ask: so why don't they?

 

Because i think that sort of internal power comes through the development of the subtle body and that cultivates in hand with the mind, and both together expand beyond the visible horizon in which the Ego dwells and one any longer feels the need to prove anything, or fight in the UFC and be the best in the world and wear a belt. I think such requirements of the simple mind simply fall away and they don't feel the need to show off, and what isn't on the media nowadays just as well doesn't exist.

 

I have had many things in life. Many gifts, material and otherwise. A lot of people i know have wished for these things all their life and many will continue to wish for them for the rest of their lives. At the same time, i know of others like me, who parade these virtues and acquirements on a daily basis. (I also lack much)

 

The difference between them and I, is that i am satisfied and my satisfaction and gratitude is beyond my ego, beyond my need show that i AM capable or i have more than person A or person B.

 

Buddha did not go around forcing people to listen to what he had to say, nor did he say he was the smartest man in the world and challenge anyone to his wisdom. Instead he said, listen to what i have to say and derive out of it your understanding. I believe that those who seek something with their heart will have that thing come to them.

 

MMA and External Martial Artists seek to perfect themselves like any profession aspires to do. But their skills external as they are can only be honed against an external opponent. You cannot apply an arm bar to a surge of Qi projected from someones palm to their head which knocks them out. Although external martial artists need not think about this, i think masters of the internal arts appreciate this truth and they understand that, bringing a gun to a knife fight would not be fair.

 

If a simple accupuncture needle placed in the right place can stop someones motor control or sensation, why is it so difficult to imagine that a master of the internal arts could project Qi to stimulate the same or other points or organs for a similar effect?

 

The bruised skin on the chest after a punch is easy to heal, but what of a punch that uses 1/4th the physical energy that happens to disrrupt the hearts' function entirely? Fair in a fight? - What if the other person wasn't even aware of what he was up against? Would you fight someone who is rumored to have killed several people without even punching them, because you want to show off or prove something? - Is it worth your life, what if you are wrong? - What do you gain if you are right, but a bigger Ego?

 

I can imagine that in the areas of the world where the Internal and External application of Martial Arts are in greater unity a similar unwritten understanding would exists. If you could wield tremendous internal power, would you use it against someone who could not defend against it? - Do you step on a bug just because YOU can?

 

I am just a little worm now, wriggling up the ladder of the Tao, but i have been an external Martial Artist for a long time and this is my understanding. I think its a matter of honor and the appreciation one has for life. I am certain that there are many masters who posses such power, but they do no teach it to everyone because with great power comes great responsibility. I think in a way that is why the universe only grants such feats to people through cultivation ONLY when their mind is in balance with the body and spirit. So that when one is given the AXE to wield, he has the good sense to know that it is not used for chopping down people, but wood to heat a fire and warm your family at night (Even though you could chop down people to prove a point)

 

If i ever become such a person, i would not go to the UFC for eg. to fight and hurt people and if i did, i would only apply external Martial Arts, not anything that could damage them beyond what is necessary. If you are an internal martial arts master that can shoot balls of chi from his ass, then using that power in eg. a UFC fight and winning, does not mean you are a better External Martial Artist, it means you are a better Internal Martial Artist, and if you had any balls you'd find an equally good practitioner of the internal arts to pummel your internal organs with from a distance while sitting in lotus to prove who is better.

Power and RESPONSIBILITY and fair game.

 

 

What do you think? - I am interested.

 

I think this is exactly right. Precisely. Since anyone who exercises and spars, especially for many years, has demonstrated in a big way their intent and resolve. A qi-user would have a lot on their plate when facing someone who has put so much focus and tenacity into their practice of external martial arts. Qi is not some magic pixie dust. The real magic pixie dust is intent, and unfortunately or fortunately, the hard stylist has equal access to intent! The qi model is at best a refinement of what intent can accomplish, and that refinement only works after you allow your mind to accept a different reality of how the world works, which is not a realistic or reasonable choice for a lot of people. Lots of people like their reality just as it is and are not willing to change it. Especially not just to kick more ass -- that's a shallow motivation and is insufficient for changing the flavor of one's reality.

 

There is another problem too. This problem is connected with intent. Since hard stylists don't need to alter their model of reality to get results, their intent is more honest right from the beginning.

 

A qi-user is first somewhat dishonest to himself/herself. Because when you first begin practicing qi, you may not believe that reality can work in a different way, that it can have another side to it. So the intent is explorative at best, or dishonest at the worst. The intent is not as purely focused on ass kicking as in the hard style, because part of the intent is dissipated with doubts about the reality of qi and so on. In time all that can be overcome and intent can become pure and very honest once again, but it might takes 30 years, and it's uncertain. It's predicated upon a total inner change.

 

I'm not touching this one with a 10 foot pole

IMO a real master of the internal arts would probably toss about an MMA fighter like a puppet, without even touching him.

 

I can only imagine that it would be even easier to redirect so much brute force than it would be a more subtle energy and precise internal force.

 

Just look at some videos of master healers. They toss about people like rag dolls, make their body parts move from a distance. Some of them are not even martial artists, i can only imagine how devastating someone with such internal knowledge would be if their entire discipline was aimed at martial application.

 

In fact MMA for eg. is one of the Martial Arts like most MAs, that concentrates on disrupting the body's subtle internal processes by external force. The process of the brain, of the nerves, of the liver, eyes etc., but through brute force. That being said it is probably safe to say that an internal Martial Arts master would be a more formidable opponent, as long as he doesn't get knocked out accidentally.

 

Apan Mudra

 

Hand position

 

Join the middle finger and the ring finger with the tip of the thumb; the forefinger and the little finger should be held upright.

 

 

Physical use

 

Moves energy to the periphery of the body. This may help with constipation and urinary problems.

 

Emotional / spiritual use

 

Gives energy and makes one more self-confident.

 

Hold the finger positions with both hands, for at least a couple of minutes.

Source: http://www.eclecticenergies.com

Sigh...

 

Some say, once a month is ok, others twice... Others regularly.

 

Some say, never, for you will not achieve anything.

 

Some say, all you need is to believe and you will attain everything. No need to do OR not do.

 

Buddha said: "Seek Happiness in the senses, indulge in food and sleep and you too will be uprooted."

 

Other texts say around 100 days of retention is required to nurture the dan tien, after which one can have a regular sexual life.

 

Honestly i don't know lol - : )

 

I agree with you Drew that sublimation/inonization like u call it is the way, but if u haven't gotten to that point yet, it's not really an option to consider. Did you begin ur practices with retention, or did retention come at a later stage for you?

http://www.wingmakers.co.nz/

 

I just came across this.

 

Lifts an eyebrow at first, then you realize you are registered at the Tao Bums.. and you pause and go *hmmm

 

I agree with you all.

 

The text and exercise were contributed by Dao Zhen. It was not I who wrote it.

 

To me that text is special, because it explains things in a certain way, a layered way.

 

For example. If we take the concept of "Love". U can teach a child what love is on a very basic level by telling them how they love their favorite blankey. In the years later, you may explain it through the love for a sibling, further as time passes through the connection with their first partner, marriage, soul mates, love for the earth, the human race, the Tao, etc.

 

I think a practice can be explained many times in different ways. Every time a student reaches a new level they get a deeper understanding of the same concept, to the point where their INITIAL understanding of it seems galaxies away.

 

I know that whole books can be dedicated to mere lines of that text, but i also think that it will be of use to both the beginner AND the novice in it's own aspects which they may not quite understand yet consciously, while their subconscious may already be putting it's words into mental and physical manifestation that help advance the practice.

 

It certainly changed a lot for me and my mental approach to specific things.

 

As to there not being a mention of WHAT exactly the movements are, the video link before the text aught to speak for itself:

 

You just need to make the session a little longer as you know youtube videos have a limit.

 

I know the post may not help ALL, but may help SOME and the latter is just as important

 

Effi : )

 

haha yes Biff,

 

Witch is the best

 

It's called the "female prostate" now though or just "the prostate" in females, because they found out it produces the same substance as the male prostate albeit much smaller in size. IME it can eject just as much and even more than a regular male ejaculation..

 

What about this Derren Brown Voodoo video:

 

 

Fascinating.

 

Makes you question our world entirely.

http://translate.google.com/translate?hl=e...shao/%26hl%3Den

 

Go to that and check out video 2.

 

Haha omg video 1 looks like me when i get the Kriyas in bed.

 

Thats too funny.

From Dao Zhen:

 

*****

Tao Yoga or DaoYin exercises were an ancient precursor of Qigong, specifically the variety sometimes known as Neigong, and were practiced in Chinese Taoist monasteries for health and spiritual cultivation in ancient times.

 

Become one with Heaven & Earth......

 

We cultivate the Healing Energy of Earth....

 

We cultivate the Healing Energy of Heaven.

 

We become one with Heaven & Earth.....

 

~This set is composed of three aspects~

 

1. Opening with Standing Meditation.

 

2. Middle section of movement -

Gathering Heaven and Earthly Energy and merging and harmonizing with Heaven and Earth....

 

3. Closing with standing meditation; then a gathering of Qi in the Lower Dantian.

 

Please note that in actual practice, please perform this entire set for 45 min to 90 min.

 

Standing - 5-15 min

 

Motion - 15-30 min

 

Standing (closing) - 5-15 min

 

The combination of Stillness and Motion create a very balanced and healthy combination of energy and are important.

 

When in the standing posture, please begin with a connection from the soles of the feet to the earth; feel as if slight roots connect the feet to the earth - Please do not imagine, or visualize.

 

Then begin to connect the crown of the head with the sky above - feel as if the crown is connected with a slight string pulling from above.

 

Allow the spine to elongate...

 

Let the teeth lightly touch, mouth closed, tongue connecting to the upper pallet, breathing in and out gently from the nose.

 

Allow the 'inner vision' to connect to the Lower Dantian.

 

The Lower Dantian (Tan Tien) is located in the empty space below the navel in the middle place between the kidney and navel -- a sphere of around 3.8 cm.

 

Let the inner vision gaze upon that place.

 

As you gaze, have a very nurturing or caring intention.

 

Do not gaze internally with force, tension, or strength - this will cause trouble internally -

 

Let golden virtue begin to grow within, releasing all negative qualities and deeply relaxing the body.

 

Deeply relax, and let all things drop away naturally....

 

While standing, draw the in breath deeply to the lower Dantian, counting 1/2/3/4, then pause and exhale from the lower Dantian, counting 1/2/3/4...

 

Allow the inhalation and exhalation to be balanced and in harmony...

 

It is important to gain a complete balance and union of the inhalation and exhalation...

 

After some time, forget the breathing.

 

Continue standing.....

 

Allow yourself to become one with the surrounding nature.

 

Let virtue fill your heart, and gain union with all of heaven and earth as you stand.

 

Breathe Deeply....

 

After some time of silent standing, then begin to enter the movement phase of the practice.

 

During the movement practice, let the movements flow from one to another.....

 

As you come down, allow all the Healing Force of Nature and the Universe shower down.....

 

After each round of movement, allow the 'inside' to feel more and more clean.....

 

Become more and more Pure.....

 

After some time of the movement practice, allow yourself to go back to silent standing meditation.

 

Then after the standing, perform the closing and gathering of Qi for some time.

 

After this, when it feels that all has settled and returned to the Lower Dantian, please rub the face with the palms, comb the fingers through the hair to stimulate the scalp, and gently pat the body to help make the transition from the deep meditation to walking.

 

~A note on breathing~

 

Do not hold the breath when doing these exercises.

 

Breath deeply and full and draw the inhalation and exhalation from the Dan Tian or lower abdomen.

 

Inhale and exhale from the nose.

 

During the movement practice, generally you can inhale as you rise up, and exahale as you bend down - generally.

 

Let it all be natural...

 

When you practice, please feel a connection from the feet to the earth, as if rooted. Please also feel a connection from the crown of the head to the sky, as if suspended by a string.

 

Be sure to let the tongue touch the hard pallet of the mouth, and the teeth are lightly closed.

 

Breath in and out gently through the nose.

 

~A note on closing at the end of the exercise~

 

Allow a feeling of all things settling in to the Lower Dantian and feel very grounded and centered.

 

Let all things return to and settle to the Lower Dantian.

 

Then just stand for some time, and let all become harmony, and do not think or focus to anything.

 

You may massage the face, and gently pat the body before moving on after finishing the exercise...

 

Let the Heart be pure and clean during all practice.....

 

For more information, please visit:

http://www.taoyoga.jp

*****

Bullshido and Tao Bums are the same in that, they are both looking for the real stuff and trying to weed out the fakes.

 

But they are different due to their qualification of what is "practical" and what is "real". They simply have different requirements and they are not spiritual. Their concept of Mind / Body unity probably goes as far as the intent generated before breaking a wooden board.

 

They are mainly if not fully biased towards physical and external forms of Martial Arts.

 

So when they see someone who says they teach a hard form of MA, then on the same line see Kundalini and Sexual Practices... that sets off their alarm, but this is only because on their website the aim is to offer visitors looking for an effective form of "self defense" from physical attack tangible and physically effective options that can be applied immediately with little training.

 

You don't want some noob trying to throw Qi Balls at a bar fight after reading about it on their website.

 

If the only information about Santiago that was available was Silat, so and so Dan. They might be curious to verify this and do some modest investigation to confirm it, but all that "other" stuff, doesn't fall under their umbrella.

 

Now i personally have no idea about the person in question, but for those wondering. That is why they have doubts.

 

What an inspiration!

 

_/\_

I bet if a guy shot Chi out of his penis and on to a girls face and she felt bliss it would be fine, because the act hasn't been raped by media and the porn industry.

 

I bet girls would be begging for a Chi Facial - probably be like a free botox session, but we rape everything and nothing can just be anymore, it has to be labeled and defined and scrutinized and judged.

 

In fact i bet that if given the opportunity our shallow society could easily label many of Taoist practices as perverse, uncivil, sexually offensive. Just give them anything "fresh" and they will rape it.

 

It's all bull.

 

 

_/\_

This pain in my legs!

It subsides when i am still.

Meditate i will.

Yeah my bad.

 

Didn't mean to hijack Drew

I don't know man, plenty of women like it and have asked for it on the breasts, but I wouldn't ever try to angle for the face although I have had a few misfires on the pull out and there are a few who asked for that. There's a thin line between loving submission and degradation to me, and if you have to cajole them to do it I think it's maybe just not polite Still, I kind of see what your saying with the submission angle.... but I think that's maybe where things get a bit messed up. I dunno, to each their own I suppose.

 

I used to have a friend and she really didn't like a guy shooting in her mouth and her bf had to warn her every time he was about to blow(while she was), in any case she told me he warned her too late and as she pulled it out he blew in her eye!! She said it was f**king painful and she had to put her eye under the tap for a while. So, steer clear of the eyes whatever your preference.

 

Edit: "oh doctor your stethoscope is so cold, but I'm feeling so hot doctor!"

 

I agree with you Ninpo. Although i like rough sex and all that good stuff. I am very respectable of women and i never force my partner into things without consideration for her feelings.

 

The reason why it's considered degrading instead as an act of submission to reinforce the female male love bond, is because it is a regular PORN activity, and most of that in porn now is looked upon negatively.

 

Most males nowadays who exhibit the porn type during sex, may be considered cold and unloving, specifically because that attitude is now directly related to Porn, Money for Sex - and not love.

 

The media skews everything and has destroyed many little pleasures in life.

 

As for the eyes... even water under the eyes is uncomfortable! - Doing that on purpose is not cool.

Preferable eyes closed with a smile on the face : ) - But that is love, not anything else, so it can't be asked for, it aught to come naturally!

 

The problem is, the barriers placed by the media, and social brainwashing make it harder everyday for people to "let go", some people don't even know how to love anymore or experience the most natural of human feelings, because there is so much "definition" behind it now. How to, How to not, Why you shouldn't, Why you should, Talk shows, Stupid Shows, Silly Shows - all messing with things that need no thought.

 

A waterfall needs not to be minded, or watched, or helped or contemplated, or called beautiful... It is and will be even if on its own... IMO

To me, coming on your girls' face or back, or titties, or feet, or hair, or tummy etc. is just a form of variation.

In the same way we vary sexual positions to increase pleasure, satisfaction and reduce repetition and boredom.

 

Between a couple who love each other, i think coming on your girls face is just an expression of love.

I think it is very symbolic and men accept it as an affirmation of a womans dedication and submission through love.

 

Demonstrable submission on the part of the woman shows a love and appreciation towards the man as a whole.

The penis enters the vagina, the gate of life opens to accept : ) - Not the other way around.

 

Socially and Historically males do the chasing, from animals to humans and the females are the ones who submit (eventually) and finally give in when the male makes an impression. - That "submission" in the animal kingdom and within our species i think is a form of gratification, acception of the man.

 

What man doesn't feel good when a woman tells him "i am yours", "have me", "take me", "do me!".

 

I think the face shot is just another form of this submission on a mini level, which is why it makes the male feel good, because it the females submission reaffirms his bond with her.

 

I don't think it is of any accident that the Japenese as Ninpo said chose the face.

What better way to represent the submission a woman experiences when she lets a man inside her body?

 

But that's just me : )

 

I think if it wasn't porn, Men would be coming on girls faces naturally at some point : )

Unfortunately because of the connotations the porn industry has acquired over the years, those things which are practiced most often in porn films are being looked upon negatively, and i'm actually speaking about some of the good stuff. The things which come natrualy (No pun intended).

 

That negativity today, is just a side effect of the "males" fondness with porn and the females inner conflict of being replaced, because the "male" inherently tries to spread his seed in nature and the woman is a temporary conquest. (In the animal world, but there are exceptions, however few)

 

The reason males are way more open and regular with porn IMO is because, if women declare it more, they in a sense agree that it is ok for a man to be "natural" with other women, and men watching porn is the closest "honest" male partners get to experiencing the primal sexual diversity and polygamy that is nature, without being scorned by society's norms and female insecurity.

 

Yes women are more open about saying they watch porn nowadays, but thats because it is "pop" and they wanna go with the flow and fit in. Most of these women are young and not in long term relationships.

 

Those women who are in a long term relationship or marriage MOSTLY (not all) frown upon it, because like i said it represents what i wrote above.

 

I on the other hand, like watching porn WITH my partners and i think it is a great experience doing it together, but it requires a certain type of woman... a confident one! - It takes confidence and love to be able to submit.

I've got an even better move than a simple 'blow your load in her face' gesture. It's called The Angry Dragon.

 

Make sure the chick has 2 pony tails that you can grasp well and use to manouver the mouth until you blow in her mouth. Then pull out your member, smack her on the back of the head hard so your load starts running out of her nose and mouth.... She'll instantly be angry, and there u have it, The Angry Dragon.

 

Before you ask, no i haven't been game enough to try

 

............

Female ejaculation.... or my ultimate quest to find one who does that.

 

Oddly enough i thought my second GF how to do this.

Most women know hardly anything about their anatomy >_<

 

How can they expect us to pleasure them if they don't have a clue in some cases? lol

Guys are easy, we just say, suck here, lick there... and were done, no diagrams required.

 

I agree there is a female prostate. It's on the front wall, after the opening and the tissue gets coarser and larger around that area after stimulated.

 

Girls have a problem getting a prostate orgasm because of that "pee" feeling. None of them want to pee in the bed and because they don't "let go", few ever achieve it. So it takes a lot of trust, but also a good explanation of what is expected before both try it.

 

Also make sure she has a wee before hand, that way it reassures her she's not gonna have a number 1 and that what she is experiencing is in fact something else... Might help her let go.

 

And if you're just figuring out where it is, it helps to ask "how does it feel here?..here?...here?" lol until u hit it : )

Just make sword fingers, palm up and feel around the top. - When you hit it and u can see her reaction, or she just lets you know how much different it is, you'll also visibly notice the flesh around her pubic bone moving on the outside as u play with it.

 

What i find more interesting though than it's existence, is it's benefit and use to the body.

It is not a small! - more like a small water dam breaking.

 

There was a really great tutorial video on how to give a woman a prostate orgasm online, using a real woman, with step by step instructions and a real prostate orgasm at the end. Give google a try.

Here's a quote from Theun Mares:

You don't know how it would be if you achieved the state of being a Xian from your current limited perspective. So it is pointless you trying to imagine it. If you are hanging off a cliff-face engaged in a life or death struggle to ascend the mountain then such speculation is not only a gross waste of energy but you may also miss the summit when you get to it because you were expecting something else.

 

First off

 

I am not interested in becoming a Xian right now, this has never been my motivation.

I am not expecting anything either.

I am not obsessing : )

 

I have no goal other than to practice and i practice, whatever comes through that, does, i do not want, just simply receive.

 

To say that thinking about something before one has achieved it is pointless, is like saying that the Wright brothers should have never asked themselves if they could make something take flight and carry people over oceans... seeing as we have airplanes now. We do not get anywhere without an established goal, which all rise from healthy questions. Questions IMO are just as much the precursor of results and progress as No Questions is.

 

All things can be answered with a question and all things can be answered through meditation. Neither is the wrong way, and both of them at some point require the other. I think its just Yin/Yang.

 

If i am climbing up a mountain with a 10,000 steps with a bag of water and fresh fruit - is it pointless to imagine sharing it with the hungry and thirsty people at the top and imagining their happiness? - I don't think good intent is pointless.

 

And IMO to ask and contemplate whether the path one has taken will allow him to share his knowledge and help his fellows, is not an act of selfishness or obsession, but on the contrary defines the selflessness of that persons motivation.

 

What is all the happiness, money, love, healing, knowledge and power in the world worth, if u cannot share it.

Thus, my question - which i somewhat feel u may have misunderstood - is:

 

If immortality, unification with Tao, etc. and all it's achievements separates you from the physical realm, where you might use them to help and heal others - Is it a selfish pursuit?

 

In Essence it is ourselves that we cultivate, but isn't that just as selfish as doing anything else for yourself without the prospect of using what u get to help and love others?

 

Many strive for it with the aim that it is the ultimate and final goal, but is spiritual enlightenment perhaps a starting point, rather than an end? - Is it just a phase we pass, in order to come back and lead better lives in the physical realm?

 

But then i guess there is the whole incarnation deal : )

 

These are not poisonous questions. It is simply a healthy appreciation of the possibilities : )

 

 

PS: BTW i generally agree with you Stigweard, but not about contemplation and asking questions being pointless!

 

Happy New Year! _/\_

Questioning, speculating, pondering, and contemplating "how things will be" once you get to your preconceived "there" of Taoist achievement are wasted energy if they do not lead you to sincere practice.

 

Which will get you "there" sooner: Speculation or practice?

 

Huh?... They DO lead to my practice.

 

It is because we awaken to ask "why" or "what" and "how" that we realize there is more than the physical.

 

Questions are not the black plague u model them to be... - often they are just a nudge towards a higher level or reasoning and understanding.

 

Contemplation to me is an important part of my development.

There is use for nothing if everything exists without reason.