effilang

Pictures from the 2014 Initiation, which took place yesterday: FB Gallery

Hi Ronko,

There is a basic level, a first level, a second level a third level and a fourth.

The transitions between levels take different amounts of time, 1 to 3 years, 3 to 6 years, 6 to 10 years, or anything between those or beyond. It really depends on how often you practice. Most Tao Yu (initiates) put in between 30 and 60 minutes of practice per day.

When a student feels he is ready, he may ask his Fu Fa Shen (护法神) to be considered for examination, or if his Fu Fa Shen deems the student to be ready, he may recommend him/her for examination.

If the recommendation is accepted, then a different, examining Shen Xian (神仙) will carry out the examination, not your Fu Fa Shen.

The examination lasts between 4 months and 5 months and includes questions from the examining immortal or other immortals that may come to test you. The examination also involves, a comprehensive overview of your nature; your life, your attitudes, your mind and your overal level of wisdom attainment, that you may be allowed to progress. Your development is assessed in many ways, but all very closely related to your state of zi ran (自然 - naturalness), wu wei (无为 - non-action and effortlessness) and qingjing (情静 - clarity and purity). All these evaluate the level of your progress back to the state of the original mind.

If you pass, you will inherit a new 20 skills in addition to the 4 acquired during the initiation.

You can register for the examination with your Fu Fa Shen, after 3 years of cultivating through Tao Yin Shu (導 引 术).

If you then pass again to the next level, yet another 20.

These skills include, healing systems, feng shui, divine skills, special skills pertaining to our school etc.

You Fu Fa Shen is your teacher, and you can always contact him/her, anytime of the day.

If you'd like to contact another practitioner you're more than welcome to do so.

You will receive the contact details of the priests who perform the initiation after the initiation, and you can contact them if you have any additional need for guidance. They are normally level 2b and level 3 or higher.

Our FB open group is here. It is a mixed group of uninitiated and initiated cultivators: https://www.facebook.com/groups/734405999957734/

Our closed group is for Tao Yu only (initiated cultivators with a Fu Fa Shen) and I'll add folks to that after the initiations. I can put you in contact with a higher level practitioner if you like, just pm me.

Unfortunately our Grandmaster, Lie Shang Hu Tao Se, doesn't speak English, but many others, including some of the highest level practitioners of our school, do.

Our community is a vibrant and thriving one, so there are many Tao Yu you can speak to, and a lot you can learn form the experiences of others, even those below you.

Long before I was initiated another Tao Yu told me that XYP students are enveloped with a golden spiritual aura that refines and protects us and that our system is Xian Tian, the reverse of conventional Hou Tian cultivtion methods.

 

Well. I use to have regular reiki sessions before the initiation with my reiki healer and whenever we have a session, she concludes it with a detailed report on everything she observed.

 

My reports are pretty monotonous insofar that nothing changes from a general perspective and progress is significant but isolated, so that perhaps we work on one meridian or an organ or a particular condition.

 

I have quite a few reports so I know how bland the situation is.

 

The last report I received was before the initiation; nothing very exciting.

 

Now here's the cool thing, my most recent session with her was after the initiation and the session had left her gob-smacked. In short, she said the energy flow of my body had completely flipped and was flowing up and that I was surrounded by a divine golden aura that was extremely peaceful.

 

She also said there was some sort of divine influence working on me from above and actively conditioning my meridian system and subtle energy body in preparation for it to receive higher vibrations of spiritual energy.

 

What's REALLY cool about all this is that, I never told her I was initiated, so It was a blind-discovery, but every detail she gave me only confirmed what I had been previously told about what happens to the energetic body after initiation : )

My short experience with my FFS started after my third attempt to connect with it. During my initiation I felt some energy in between my hands. It felt like something was pushing them apart and that was all, no movements.

 

The second time I tried to connect with my FFS, I didn’t feel anything at all. And then it all started during my third attempt. I was sitting on a chair, I was trying to feel the energy between my palms and my FFS moved my left arm aside and started making circles of different diameters. Then it switched to my right arm and repeated the same movements.

 

I continued practicing and in the next few sessions I experienced the same movements but at some point it stopped my arm and pressed it against my body or held it in a perpendicular position when I was practicing in bed.

 

While it was holding my arm I felt my arm very warm like when someone touches u and u exchange temperature. These movements became more intensive with time.

 

Last two times I tried to connect with my FFS when it finished moving my arms, it continued by moving my right leg and since I was laying down I felt like maybe I should sit but nothing happened so I stood up and then my FFS started to make me stay in a position in which my knees were bent (but I didn’t feel any tension), it pushed my hips forward, my back straight, my arms around my body with a slight curve and palms facing backwards.

 

I felt so relaxed and comfortable, no tension at all, it was like someone is holding my body. My FFS made me stay in that position for a few seconds and then pushed my knees backwards and then forward again.

 

Another experience I have is an exercise in which my FFS moved my hips in a circle switching my body weight from knee to knee.

Another time it was rotating my hands for so long that I got tired and fell asleep and when I woke up my hand was still spinning.

Just rapped up the Fredericksburg event. Day 1/2 in the books and it was awesome! Speechless at this point. Trying to digest all this information but an awesome event. So blessed!

So its the day after the initiation event and I must say that I didn't want it to end. It is truly a positive life changing experience. I am so pleased with the experiences I've had so far since being initiated. Makes me very excited to continue on this journey learning the Tao through TSM. Thank you to all those abroad and here in the US that helped to make the event possible this year. I am truly grateful for this opportunity.

 

I am a Chinese medicine practitioner in the USA.

I was very interested to be introduced to an authentic daoist lineage (xiao yao pai)

Before the initiation there was a short introductory course on the basic aspect of daoist thoughts and a few exercises to assess how well we understood the basic applied philosophical aspects of daoism.

After that, the Master who had travelled all the way from indonesia to the USA, started the initiation and introduced us to our Hu Fa Shen (our personal guardian/instructor in daoist practices). If you have always wanted to have a master constantly with you to answer your question and guide through your life, then this is the ceremony for you. The master called on the higher plane and made accessible to each of us the ability to connect with the HFS. We did tao yin shu for a while reinforcing the connection.

The second day was dedicated to understanding certain breathing techniques and clarifying questions from the participants.

It was all very direct and powerful.

Then all we had to do is go back home and practice every day tao yin shu and reinforce the connection with the HFS.

This has been a very powerful practice for me for 2 years now, and many positive changes have taken place in my life since.

I feel very grateful that the Master visited us from so far away and that I did not miss this event.

Do not miss it !

TYS is unlike any other form of meditation I have learnt, and I have learnt many types, some of them Taoist. Its beauty and challenge is that it requires no effort. Any effort or input other than "being there" will retard progress. The practice feels natural, like coming home, and as such dispels any fear or anxiety I may have. TYS hones my sensitivity to energy through my body and strengthens and enables an experience of "recharging". It is an ancient, effortless exercise in spirit building (a concept I now understand because I now feel it). And it bloody well feels fantastic while I'm doing it!! TYS is by far the best and most productive present I have been given by anyone so far. Bye for now

 

When I first heard of the Tai Shang Men-Xiao Yao Pai Taoist school and took the e-mail course, I was so excited and knew this was the path I wanted to follow. Though I am an acupuncturist and have studied Chinese Medicine and culture for years, I didn't really know anything about Tao Yin Shu and had no expectations. Since then, I still have not studied any of the ideas or descriptions of it, I just practice and let my experience guide me to my own knowledge. At some point in the future, I will study the traditional texts more and seek understanding on an intellectual level, but for now practice is the most important thing for me.

Therefore, when I was initiated I had an open mind and didn't really know what to expect. Nothing had been described to me before hand. So, I was surprised during the initiation to have such a strong sensation in my hands. It was similar to what I have experienced practicing Tai Chi and other internal martial arts forms, but much stronger. There was a strong sense of pushing and direction to the sensation that I had not experienced before.

Over the last year of practice my chronic and severe health problems have improved markedly. I recently have had increased sensation throughout my body, not just my hands, of receiving Qi. I have felt my heart open more to feelings of peace and joy. ​Recently, I had a very interesting experience. I had an event happen that was very troublesome, and my mind responded wanting to go down a well-worn path of worry which I have done in the past. I found that pathway was blocked and I could not worry. Then my mind, disturbed, tried another pathway of anxiety; it was also blocked. Then my mind went into full-on panic and I found that way was blocked, too! Finally, I began to find this whole process amusing and I just had to laugh. It was a remarkable experience and difficult to describe. But I think my Fu Fa Shen was directing me to discharge the emotion through laughter instead of the more damaging and habitual pathways of worry and fear.

With every day that passes I feel more and more grateful that I chose this path! It takes persistence, but eventually the rewards will manifest themselves.

 

I am one of this skeptical people when it comes to belief ,but i decided to keep an open mind for this event and i am glad i did that or i would not have had the privilege of meeting the Tao masters ,feeling their spiritual energy and becoming part of the wonderful and puzzling and fascinating experiences . When i listened to them talking it was great to understand that it is not a religion ,but simply an effort to strive and improve the self ,overcome prejudices,conditioning and preconceptions and completely of your own free will and understanding not to cause harm to others.

 

Since the initiation i have gradually had my eyes beginning to open to all my shortcomings and they were many,but when i meditated my fu fa shen was working on my body spinning me ,bending me i started to experience calmness and clarity of mind and could see where i have gone wrong and how my vanity has prevented me from seeing other people properly and understanding how they felt .i started having a thought ,every time my vanity returned warning me to stop.I do some really strange exercises and on one of them i bend my knees and leaned back so far ,for my body it was impossible to keep a balance ,but i kept like that for 10 seconds and felt i was being supported.My fu fa shen feels like a treasured family member,but a very stern teacher and once when i went back to my vanity after meditation ,it sent a thought into my mind to stop and said that if i do it he will give me pain to remind me and 5 minutes latter he made my back burn and sent a thought to remember to be modest.

 

If i had listened to myself a week ago i would have sent me to a psychiatrist ,but after the lessons and explanations from the master i am prepared to understand and let go and let my fu fa shen help me.It is all for my own benefit and when i ask my fu fa shen for specific help it helps me .

Preconceptions keep us from experiencing great things throughout our lives and i am so happy i did not allow mine to stop me from going to the initiation,i was laying in the emergencies ward in the hospital ,but i pushed myself ,discharged against doctors advice and got on the night bus to london and came to the initiation.Few days latter i feel my body getting better daily after each meditation and body manipulation i feel like i made the best decision for my life.

With kind regards

But Dao practice doesn't need anything like Qigong or meditation...

 

So with the recent talks of xiantian/pre-heaven/Neidan, perhaps it would be interesting to explore houtian/post-heaven development.

 

Some areas to consider being chi gong, and material destiny (if I may).

 

In the conversation, I'd also like to hear/be interested to hear thoughts on the realization of non-self and not-self. What realm is this? Xiantian? Houtian? Maybe the difference lies in the logical understanding of it being houtian, and the shen experience being xiantian?

 

Further:

 

Wealth. A legitimate houtian Daoist cultivation?

There are pre-heaven San Bao: Original Jing, Original Qi and Original Shen.

There are post-heaven San Bao: Jing, Qi and Shen.

There are two ways.

The forward way and the reverse way; the human way and the heavenly way.

The former creates the corporeal birth of the physical body, which is temporary, while the latter the birth of the non-physical body, which is immortal.

The pre-heaven San Bao are formless. In stillness they reverse on the path of creation and unite.

The 3 unite into the 2, the 2 return to the one, the one becomes one with everything: Jing, Qi, Shen > Taiji > Wuji > Tao

In movement (of the acquired heart/mind) the pre-heaven San Bao create the post-heaven San Bao.

Original Jing gives birth to Jing; the physical body, hormones, chemicals, sexual essences, bones, tendons, muscles etc.

Original QI gives birth to the Qi within the meridians that animate and maintain the human complex.

Original Shen gives birth to Shen, the acquired-mind (Zhishen)

Post-heavenly Jing, Qi and Shen are interconnected. They support each other and one creates the other, all three nourishing and maintaining one another. The same goes for post-heaven Jing, Qi and Shen.

Within the core of the post-heavenly manifestation of the pre-heavenly San Bao, lies a spark of the pre-heavenly.

It is in this way that we can start from where we are, the physical, the formless, the post-heavenly; and revert back to the pre-heavenly.

If the post-heavenly San Bao are not regulated, purified, and strengthened; the pre-heavenly will constantly be in motion, constantly in use, untill their dissipation, which will lead to the physical death.

By regulating the post-heavenly Jing, Qi, Shen ie: Jing, through exercise, Qi through Qigong, Shen through stilness meditation, we can still the post-heavenly, which in turn will still the pre-heavenly.

It is only in this stillness, that the path can be reversed.

Tao > Wuji > Taiji.

Because the post-heavenly Jing, Qi and Shen are of the body, energy and acquired-mind, they are of FORM, they are thus resident in the domain of Taiji; duality.

First you must strengthen the post-natal in order to create a solid foundation.

This allows for the body to become a sturdy container for the future alchemical transformations of spirit. It must be clean, like a laboratory beaker must be cleaned.

Post-natal JING, Post-natal Qi, Post-natal SHEN = TAIJI DOMAIN

Post-natal Shen is the most refined energy in Taiji (Duality), but the coarsest energy of Wuji (Non-Duality)

Thus, in order for a practitioner to begin cultivating Wuji (emptiness, non-duality), they must first reach SHEN.

Everything before this, is a post-heavenly Taiji practice, which is of the form and of the body and of the corporeal and temporal condition. To perfect Taiji will not grant you immortality.

After one reaches Shen, then they can start cultivating Wuji.

Different practices start in different places.

A traditional Hou-Tian practitioner will first work with Jing, Qi and Shen.

His body, will become strong, his Qi will become strong, his mind will become strong.

These are all strengths of the physical realm.

When he reaches Shen, he will start the real spiritual cultivation.

Some other schools, will first activate their Shen, then their Qi, then their Jing.

Other schools will do all 3 simultaneously and some concentrate only on 1.

No matter how much you practice, if you restrict yourself to developing only the post-natal Jing, Qi and Shen, you will always be stuck in Taiji. You may achieve Yin Shen; corpse freed immortality and wonderful skills, but you will not be complete Yang and you will not have complete wiped out the mundane and conditioned Yin aspects of your entire existence.

Genuine alchemical practices cultivate the formless and reverse the path of creation, however the spark of the formless is within the form of the body. Why else would we be birthed into a physical body in the first place if not to utilize it as a vessel for transformation. Thus, we use the post-natal to illuminate the pre-natal, then use the pre-natal to completely erradicate all traces of the post-natal Yin condition.

To think that you can go to the gym and build muscles to be come an immortal is stupid; this is cultivating post-natal Jing.

To think that you can practice Qigong and Pranayama and become an immortal is stupid; this is cultivating post-natal Qi.

To think that you can practice puzzles and games to train the mind and become an immortal is stupid, this is cultivating post-natal Shen.

These are the forms of the formless pre-natal, pre-heavenly Jing, Qi and Shen.

The most important thing to understand is that the body should not be treated as something which must be gotten rid of.

The body is our one very precious tool, which we must use in order to reinvigorate the pre-natal and plant the true seed, so that the internal, reverse birth of the Xian Tian path can be created and the immortal can be born.

At what time you start practicing in your life, will determine whether you can directly begin refining Shen to leap over Taiji and enter Wuji, or if you will first have to start with the physical, body, physical energy and physical mind, before you can start refining pre-natal Shen to Wuji.

Realization and non-self cannot be found in Taiji, they are a product of the refined acquired consciousness and pre-natal Shen, entering Wuji in union. This is where the voidless emptiness can be witnessed, the unborn potential of all creation.

no crap qigong is not congruent with neigong.

does qigong facilitate aspects of neigong? you'd best come up with a good explanation if you think it doesnt.

Sitting work (not "meditation") is used when there is no mind.

You read too many books and cling to too many words and meanings...

Sorry, but how you can know anything about "the lore of the ancient"? From Mantak Chia's books?

Looks like you've read them to be able to qualify their content, or are you just on your typical run of prejudiced suppositions

I think it's great that there are many of us here sharing their experiences and understandings of what they have learned throughout their lives. At the very least, if nothing else is grasped of it, it is amusing and enjoyable.

It's also inevitable that our ideas will sooner or later find a point of friction between us; and this too is ok, amusing and sometimes educational.

What I really have a hard time accepting is that as soon as someone puts a few sentences in some quotes and slaps a name on the back of it, nobody dares question it, hypnotized by the lore of the ancient.

Some people's attitudes on here are leaning towards an almost religious type of book worshiping as opposed to adopting the very attitude that brought about all these wonderful discoveries; the attitude of the adventurer, such as were the inquisitive ancient Taoists of the past, the scientist of antiquity.

How certain are you of everything written in books or even of that spoken by other people?

How many here have actually become Taoist immortals? What percentage of the path are we really qualified to preach to others that is born of our own direct experience and accomplishment of it, and what part is of the written and spoken experiences of other people, be it your teacher or the practitioners of the past?

Are our beliefs based on our experiences of books and the experiences of others or of our own personal experiences; and if they are based of your own experiences, are you certain that every persons' body and mind experiences the same thing in exactly the same way, enough that you can categorically exclude or include others if they don't correspond to your said experiences?

We all choose to believe what we want to believe, what is convenient to believe, but most importantly what we have been taught to believe; regardless of whether we are taught by books or by other people.

Any person can be made to believe a truth if they are conditioned long enough, anyone.

I have never been a person whom believes in one thing and clings to it.

Before I was initiated, I did not believe in the claims of Xiao Yao Pai, but I did the only thing a curious person could and explored them so I could verify it's claims for myself.

If another system came along today and made great claims, I would be just as curious and skeptical, but more than happy to explore. After all, how can you truly know something, if you don't go and find out? How can you judge it, if not yet again from the experience of others? You MUST have direct experience.

This is my opinion only, of course, but I believe that the mind of a true Taoist practitioner should be open and not rigid; fixed or married to any one belief.

Even if that very belief was later verified through personal experience and achievements of the very results held by those beliefs were made; those are still YOUR experiences and you shouldn't be too sure that others will experience the discovery of those truths in the same way, even if they are of one and the same origin. This is why we have different schools, different methods, different systems and different principles, but if they are authentic, they will lead to the same destination.

There is a funny saying; but aptly true:

The single biggest problem in communication is the illusion that it has taken place.

Naturally, he questions everyone, but when someone questions him; it's the good old disappearing act.

Why am I not surprised .

To those whom have the ability to do so, for the purposes of investigating whether our schools' practice is authentic and leads to Yang Shen and Gong, I give you my blessing and invite you to establish a connection with my Fu Fa Shen in order to directly investigate his nature for your selves.

Enjoy it

There is a sense of zeal, ambition, and "our way is best" conveyed in the descriptions in this thread.

That is never my intention and not a tenet of our school.

What may come across as ambition is really just my sincere enthusiasm in giving serious practitioners an opportunity to experience a system that is capable of helping and supporting their cultivation from the very place they seek to be.

I remember reading about alchemy a long time ago and the author was explaining how he began to cry as he was writing the discriptions of some of the methods, because it reminded him of how hard it was and how many mistakes he had to make to finally find a method that worked. It is from a similar place that my enthusiasm spawns

I've always said that initiation is nothing more than an opportunity to verify the explanations of our school.

An opportunity to say, "these guys are talking bullshit" or "wow, they weren't kidding."

How much more can you give a person?

Initiated or not, we are all tasked with the heavy duty of self-cultivation, and not everyone has access to a teacher or can afford to pay one for the rest of their natural life.

Fu Fa Shen is an incredibly convenient bridge from Taiji to Wuji whereby anyone cultivating neidan will be able to use it's wisdom to expedite the process and receive safety, protection and guidance where it would otherwise be difficult to have.

Our way is certainly not the best way or the only way, but it is the most efficient and straight-forward in my own experience, because nothing beats having a teacher that knows what they are doing.

Everyone can come to test our truth. For 2 days in the year anyway : )

Nothing beats personal experience.

There is nothing to discuss, your posts are just to protect your business and mind view. Keep recruiting

A business, with only 2 working days in the year?

Yeah, thats a really solid business plan you got there - haha.

We are actualy a registered NPO...

If you don't mind, I'd appreciate it if you would refrain from resorting to derogatory statements and name calling; surely you can be civil?

I didn't hear you comment anything about the picture I posted of our grandmaster initiating Quanzhen priests?

You do know that Quanzhen specialise in Neidan right? - Yet, these priests from one of the main branches of Taoism (as well as others we've initiated) can all seamlessly incorporate Tao Yin Shu into their practice without any conflict to the teachings, and I'll tell you why; because there is no conflict, but you can't see that, because you grasp on to the superficial.

"Recruiting" - for what?

After an initiation, a Tao Yu can leave and never engage in any form of communication or contact with any members of our school if he so chooses to. Regardless, this does not hinder them from advancing with our system on their own, at their own pace and at their own discretion, through Fu Fa Shen. All one needs to do is simply request Fu Fa Shen's presence. It is on duty after all.

There is no need to try to inject these petty doses of malicious shots here and there. You are ambitiously trying to distort our schools image, but you're never going to be able to do it, because you have no direct experience of the defining art of our system; Tao Yin Shu. Until you've had an opportunity to verify whether what I say is false or true, you're just a speculator.

Only a fool would claim he knows what he has no personal knowledge of. I'd like to think that you are not at this level.

This phrase alone has no sense in Neidan. See Daeluin's reply as well.

Which part of it should I see. The part he agreed with me, or the part he agreed with me?

And "that" phrase has plenty to do with Neidan.

My concern is not about experience..

Ok then , rely on your faith and your beliefs. I'll stick to direct experience before I decide make up my mind about anything. To each his own.

Liu Yiming calls the Xian Tian / Yuan Jing/Qi/Shen a Yin expression, which seems to agree with your description of Yin Shen. He also calls the Hou Tian Jing/Qi/Shen a Yang expression (which makes sense). But other than that, your description of "Yang Shen" matches his description of the Xian Tian Breath of True Unity, or the Golden Elixir, and the One Opening of the Mysterious Barrier. It is the root of the Hou Tian San Bao, the ruler of the Xian Tian San Bao, and something of the nature of utmost Yang, the Treasure of Heaven. As for XYP, I'm happy it works for you, and I'm happy I've found the path that works for me as well.

Right. As I had mentioned before the commonality of our arts, lies beneath the surface.

Sadly, some people, cough-cough, can't see beneath it.

If you are an admirer of Liu Yimings' findings, you will appreciate what I said before in that, when the subtle alchemical ingredients of the formed postnatal San Bao are transmuted and then combined with the alchemical ingredients of the formless prenatal San Bao; their fusion will bring about the state of what he calls the "precelestial breath of unity", which is beyond the aforementioned as it is a result of their fusion as opposed to their separation.

That is to say that there are two transmutations taking place here. A lesser one and a greater one.

The prenatal Yang quality resides within the postnatal Yin quality as Kan ☵. That is how we can use the physical body as a laboratory to extract the prenatal Yang and this is why consciousness enters it. This is the Hou Tian state, the birth of Yang.

To reverse the process, the prenatal Yang which is hidden between the postnatal Yin Yao of Kan must be combined with postnal Li ☲. During this interaction the prenatal Yin and Yang separate and energetically exchange places creating the outer alchemical agent. This is the result of combining the postnatal san bao of Li and Kan and this is the first transmutation and involves "doing". This is unity, but not GREAT UNITY.

For this process to take place, the fire of the heart (Li) must be directed into the lower dan tian so it can mingle with Kan. But since there is no way to do this physically, we use the intention and the eyes, which are connected to the heart (where Li resides) and can direct the spirit's influence. This way Li can be directed to Kan under the navel.

When the Fire mixes with the Water, the postnatal Jing will stop flowing down and out of the genital organs and the postnatal Shen will stop rising up and out of the eyes. The fire (Li) of the Shen will then scortch the water (Kan) of the Jing to produce vapor (Qi) and will soon lead to the first unity of the poscelestial San Bao; the outer alchemical agent.

This will produce the white light of lesser unification (Yin Qi) and is the first internal birth; the result of the mixing of Kan and Li.

The second birth, does not involve "doing" or movement or direction. It happens naturally as a result of the first birth and manifests as the golden light of Yang Qi to form the inner alchemical agent.

When these two mix together, Yin Qi and Yang Qi or (Kan ☵ + Li ☲) + (Qian ☰ + Kun ☷) = then you will get GREAT UNITY or what Liu Yiming calls the precelestial breath of unity, the result of the union of post celestial san bao with precelestial san bao to produce the immortal embryo, fetus and child.

This alchemical transformation is what brings about what he calls true Unity, not just unity, but true Unity.

Because with only unity, or the first birth, or the outer alchemical agent, you will get only partially to the goal.

This is the fusion of true Yin and true Yang which bring about true Unity, which is not of the Taiji but of the Wuji.

There are two births or refinements, first of Kan and Li (postnatal, false Yin and Yang) and then of Kun and Qian (prenatal true Yin and Yang); after which there is a great union.

The core is the same... but Fu Fa Shen's approach is very individual due to our differences in psychological, energetic, physical and spiritual make up : )

You make a lot of claims and assumptions about our school, but behind all that, still lies the undeniable truth; that you have no direct experience of our schools' method of cultivation. Because of this your pronouncements are nothing more than unsubstantiated conjecture.

FFS is not Yangshen by definition and description, and such things are not used in Neidan at all.

On the contrary. Perhaps you just haven't gotten to this stage yet. Neither have I using Hou Tian Xiu.

Yet, it is a simple feat to achieve in our school using Xian Tian Xiu.

After the postnatal San Bao mix with the Pre-natal Yang Shen and the Yin Shen finally fuses with the Yang Shen in the Shang Dan Tien to create the awakened immortal, then one will have the opportunity to advance their practice through further education in the non-physical dimension. This is also part of the later stages of Neidan.

I guess not everything is written in the traditional classics, huh?

Sadly, you'll have to resort to stigmatizing that statement I suppose, like everything else that you haven't yet experienced

Your mind is truly rigid for a Taoist.

One of the main differences between starting from the Hou Tian point of cultivation and turning back to cultivate the Xian Tian state, is that when one reaches this point and the awakened immortal is ready to come out, with most people the awakened Yang Shen immortal is vulnurable to external influences. During initiation with Xiao Yao Pai, there is a divine golden aura of Wuji energy which envelops the Tao Yu. It promotes the return to the Xian Tian state and additionally wards off any negative energetic influences from Yin entities. The aura stays with you until you decide to terminate your connection with the school. This aura also protects the awakened immortal so that it can explore the dimensions with a reduced threat and without the mandatory requirements for extra periods of incubation to mature the young Yang Shen, or as my friend calls it; the baby yang shen : )

Most people cannot detect the golden aura if they have developed using only basic Taiji methods such as Qigong, as the auras energy is beyond Taiji. Very few people can see it, and they always remain in awe.

In terms of Yin Shen vs Yang Shen.

The Yin aspect of the Shen complex, even when brought to it's respective completion is not the final stage of cultivation possible with the Hou Tian body. This achievement is only partial.

Yin Shen is purely a subtle energy form. You will be free of the body and can detach from the reincarnative influence of Taiji so that you can avoid the physical realm and you may advance in the non-physical realm, but without a complete merger of Yin Shen and Yang Shen within the alchemical laboratory of the Hou Tian body, such achievements are said to go only as far as the Gui Xian.

There is a reason why the consciousness enters the physical body.

It needs needs its ingredients and alchemical substance to create the necessary concotions required to fully persist in the divine realm.

Those who fail, will need to try again.

As it is said; the problem is that you think you have time.

We must practice dilligently.

Yin Shen vibrates low enough that it can still be picked up by the human eyes, but it cannot interact with the physical environment due to it's lack of Yang energy. It CAN interact with the Shen of another person, but to do so, one must reduce their awareness and consciousness to a level where the Yin Shen can effectively interface on a similar frequency and assume control. This is similar to what you will find in shamanic traditions where you often have to go into a trance to contact the non-physical dimension.

A Yang Shen spirit is different from this.

It is the result of the completion stage of the Hou Tian body's cultivation and is the product of the combined Yin Shen and Yang Shen essence of the cultivator, or if you will, the assimilated Yin Shen and the now remaining, Yang Shen.

The picture I posted above is of a baby Yang Shen, this is the reverse birth of Xian Tian state as opposed to the forward birth of the human child in the Hou Tian state, which will always lead to a full rotation of the Taiji and the death of the corporeal body.

The Yang Shen body possess both polarities, the potential of the Wuji and the will of the mind, which allow it to manifest both in Taiji and in Wuji simultaneously and in unlimited numbers. It's different from the Yin Shen in that it does not need for the body/mind to be in a state of trance or reduced awareness so that it can interface with it or interact with it; it can directly interact with the Taiji realm and the human Shen, Qi and Jing while the human remains in a complete aware state.

In our path, the Yang Shen is cultivated immediately after initiation and is gradually awakened from its dormant state with each following session.

Yin Shen is not Qing Jing and cannot teach a person how to purify himself to the highest level.
Our Fu Fa Shen is not a Gui, Ren, Di or Xian, but a Tian Xian.

Here is a picture of our Grandmaster initiating 3 Quan Zhen 全真 "Complete Perfection" Tao Shi (Taoist Priest) from Tian Hou Gong (Tian Hou Temple)

Think about why Quan Zhen priests who specialise in Neidan and dual cultivation of Xing and Ming would be inheriting Tao Yin Shu through Xiao Yao Pai if our method was so anti-Taoism?

Perhaps it is time to stop reading books alone...

You remind me of a meeting of Laozi and Kongfuzi, Opendao : )

Confucius visited Laozi dressed in formal elaborate robes to discuss matters of ceremonial etiquette and tried to explain his belief that new knowledge must be based upon old knowledge...but was interrupted by the old master:

Laozi: "The men of whom you speak are long since dead and their bones are turned to ashes in their graves."

Laozi: "Put away your polite airs and your vain display of fine robes. The wise man does not display his treasures to those he does not know. And he cannot learn justice from the Ancients."

He is the consciousness of Laozi and the one to whom we make the request during initiation to assign the immortal spirits to the new Tao Yu in order to guide them on the way back to reality.

Don't believe anything I have to say? I'm glad to hear it!

By all means doubt me. I encourage it; but when you are ready to find out the truth behind my statements, come to an initiation and verify it for yourself

Even if that was the case, which it is not; you still have no experience of the schools' guided art, that you can discuss against or for it with any credibility. Direct experience is paramount for a complete understanding of the method.

Most importantly though, you would realise that hidden in its differences is where the commonality lies,but you must pierce through the superficial appearance with experience, to realise it.

Until then this exchange of words between us will always miss it's targets.

Maybe you don't understand basics about reversing-Fan?

In any case there are many ways to reach the tao. I believe it is possible to let the tao guide one there with know knowledge, if one's karma is so aligned. If one follows a framework, it is important to understand the framework of that school. But even though there is only one Tao, there are many frameworks that lead to the Tao. Some methods may contradict other methods, and that's Okay.

Indeed. Even the directional flow of Qi within the meridians in our system is of different configurations to that you will find in any alchemical texts. There are, many, many differences between Taoist schools of cultivation. It is unreasonable to believe that one way is the only way and quite frankly rather immature : )

Perhaps not at first. But they are ever present and cultivated through not using them up. Simply fasting is all that is needed.

I agree with this, but it is the post-natal Jing, Qi, Shen that must be fasted in order to settle the Pre-natal Jing, Qi, Shen so that they don't have to continuously transform to the post-natal qualities in order to manifest life, only then can they congeal and the Yuan Jing can return to the Yuan Qi and the Yuan Qi to the Yuan Shen.

The fasting is of the post-natal qualities:

- The Mind (Shen), The Energy and Breath (Qi) and the Physical Body (Jing).

When these are regulated and settled through the proper type of "fasting", then the Pre-natal counter parts can combine.

In order to get where we intend to go, we must start from where we are; is it not so, or can we simply teleport to our goal?

With some systems the order is different.

To work with the sexual fluid is dangerous, and I don't see how uniting it with the breath and thoughts will create anything but chaos.

When the generative fluid is not stirred, the breath can be calm, when the breath is calm the thoughts will be calm, else they pre-natal qualities will stir and move everytime we think.

The body, the breath and the mind, must be calmed, then the pre-natal Jing, Qi and Shen can return to their places and rest in preparation for further refinement.

From what I understand, one is able to trust the guidance of the Fu Fa Shen to provide the knowledge and guide the way. Thus one may do the practice, without the knowledge getting in the way. It still seems to me like one is missing the cultivation of proper Xing by trusting to the guidance of a single outside force. Part of merging with the Tao is following where it leads and learning to surrender to the Tao as a whole - not a single entity. But hey we all have our destinies. Personally I'd be suspicious of ulterior motives, but I'm naturally cautious like that.

It does not matter whether your teacher is physical or non-physical, of this dimension or the other, you still have to do the cultivation yourself and put in the effort. So it makes no difference in that respect. Skepticism is healthy and you are free to question or doubt your FFS