~jK~

I hope your enjoying China.

 

**'Savasana'**

**'The Secret of the Golden Flower'**

 

**You will need to confront your dreams and analyze them untill you understand them whereas at that point they will no longer return. **

 

(Dreams are our mind's language it uses in an effort to use the subconscious minds methods of trying to understand conscious realities.

It takes a between 100 days and 6 months to complete.)

 

The completed process will heal yourself of pysche issues and balance your energy and mind. It will free you to become your true self as well as to know yourself.

If you can continue - e-mail me.

__________________________________________________

 

I will continue to email you. I am not in Hawaii but if possible will search for teachers of Savasana in the states and will also look into the Golden Flower.

 

Thank you very much for the help.

 

Are nightmares probably the most information filled dreams that a person can confront? I would think that any dream that inspires fear or depression would be a good place to start if I want to understand.

 

You may not be able to travel but you did alot of teaching just now. I appreciate it.

 

It doesn't seem possible to send you PM's, that's alright. I would like to continue this discourse here if you don't mind, but perhaps you have another idea. Please just let me know.

Here's an online version of 'The Secret of the Golden Flower' http://www.rexresearch.com/goldflwr/goldflwr.htm

That's fine.

 

Although, if this is the case why post at all? Are you insinuating that you may teach me something useful if you come to know me?

 

Well, I've been meditating since my late teens, and have had much experience with a few higher level entities and divine humor. Although the love part was the best. I just wish to more fully fin the personal power and freedom to explore the spiritual realities, so that I may gain insight into *How all this works* and learn more about myself as a human and spiritual being. I'm an explorer and experimentor, a husband and a deployed Sailor. My intellectual understanding of spiritual matters is small compared to the experiences i've been through, but only becuase I take the bare amount needed to work a technique and throw away any useless information I come across as I find that I need very flexable beliefs (or beliefs that may be thrown away) to work in such an interesting and very needed field!

 

My first goal is to heal myself of pysche issues and balance my energy and mind. I don't mind going down the less traveled routes though, it is enjoyable to experiment and learn new ways, or even to blaze my own.

 

- Peace!

"Although, if this is the case why post at all? Are you insinuating that you may teach me something useful if you come to know me?"

If you are a sailor, with any length of experience, you know how to controll your emotions in the face of what 'may' happen. This is what is needed to begin learning.

If you may, thoughts and comments on these experiences would be greatly appreciated, please stop by and throw in your two pence so that I will perhaps better understand what is going on here.

 

During the end of my practice of Yoga Nidra, when I am only keeping awareness on the silence in my chest I noticed a scrunching feeling, as though conciousness was sucking into that spot(I felt as though I was entering into the space or shrinking), along with some blurry imagery that couldn't be made out. Anyhow, my entire body became fuzzy, as if static electricity was filling up my pores. It was most intense in the palms, BTW.

 

Anyhow, then began a feeling akin to peeling a banana or movement from the physical mass of the body into the space above me. As the feeling increase another feeling, as if I was being raised up occured, and an image started to appear in my mind's eye. Foolishly I opened my eyes at this moment to "get a better look" and lost the image and the sensations started to fade. My legs felt very cool after this experience and a pleasant tingle was intermittantly moving in my body.

 

It reminds me of last week, after meditating at the end of the day I went to bed and almost the exact same experience happened, but without imagery and the "lifting" sensations started while I was half-asleep and in this dream "running" towards a door.

 

There is a tendency for the min to become exicited during experiences like this, and I have enough lucidity to repeat the mantra "I'm not afraid" since these things are often sudden and fairly freaky at times.

 

Thanks everyone.

MoKona,

Raja yoga at the entrence level is a 6 year old driving a car alone.

I will not teach a person that I am not very-very-very familiar with.

I love meditation that allows one to just relax and give up. Surrender. For purposes of the thread I will call this formless meditation.

 

Basically, what it is is to empty the mind of all thoughts, conceptions, activities and perceptions. Letting go of all concerns the past, present and future and just experiencing the nothing which is something. For some people this is impossible to do but with enough training in meditation it comes fast enough. It is surrendering and letting false conceptions of self drop away. You let go and surrender it. all. and go into emptiness. There is nothing more stress-relieving.

 

 

However on the other hand, active meditation has it part too.

 

I am sure in the traditions that involve the cultivation of certain abilities, an active form of meditation is utilized.

 

Meaning, a form of meditation that has a certain purpose that uses a certain kind of imagery or focus. Like imagining colours in the chakras, focusing on or making an invocation to buddha or maitreya, that sort of thing. Instead of surrendering you make a conscious effort to hold onto one thing and that, only that. Like building the dantien. Or feeling your energetic body. Of course to get somewhere you have to make an effort in walking, and perhaps becoming an immortal or such will be hard work.

 

Siddhi and "supernatural" phenomena do not come without a price.

 

And there are an infinite number of mixes between to two that make different states of mind accessible.

 

Perhaps they both are the yin and yang of meditation, two wonderful sides of the same coin.

 

experiences? feel free to comment.

Kali Yuga - I apologize for disecting your post but it is exactly what I've been thinking about. My aim was to bring more of the essence to the obvious points that you brought up..

I've been studying crystals as one of the Yang methods of reaching higher levels of meditation - The crystals work -and- I'm wondering just how many methods there are that I haven't thought about - as well as 'when does a method become a problem to the objective' or even -does it become a problem ?

Of course the crystals may be having a psychological effect of reassuring my confidence that if something can be touched it has more of a place in reality - so as to give me a prop. But the risings that I am having are exactly the same effect that Kundalini Yoga had, on me, when I was began studying it about 20 or more years ago.

I echo: feel free to comment on experiences.

The reason I echo 'experiences' is that 'experiences' are the foundation of the Scientific method of objective observation.

Whereas 'beliefs' are founded on only windborn thoughts with little to no connection to reality other than one persons imaginative dream.

 

I actually assign a great deal of trustworthiness to my feelings. So forgive me if I apply Occam's Razor where appropriate and leave TV for the cultural wasteland that it serves.

I apologize for shortening - but the other was seeming too complicated for me to get my noodle around

Feelings are, to me, natures compass as they point the way in an otherwise dark trail. They have been sharpened through practice in folowing them through many dark alleys that turned out to be shortcuts.

My opinion for TV is that, in USA, it was my main problem in achieving goals. And to be honest, I didn't miss Gilligan's Island -or the 7:30 PM, 7:30 AM or 60 min. news- a bit.

I don't know how to completely describe this but it's happening with greater frequency, maybe 4-6 times a week. As you know, I'm a critical thinking junkie so I'm assuming that there is a rational explanation for this to be unravelled by the mysteries of internal alchemy.

 

I am frequently overwhelmed with the sensation of being in close proximity of another human being when alone. There is an undeniable olfactory element; the odor has a ring of familiarity to it and then it begins to dissipate. What lingers for another ten seconds or so is a psychological feeling that involves smell, emotion, and very old memory. If I had the time I'd use these sensations to write a short ghost story about someone who is visited by disembodied spirits looking for a way back to an earth-bound plane. No, I don't see dead people, and I don't think this is the sixth sense, but I can only assume this is a side-effect of internal alchemy.

 

A side effect of high cholesterol?

B-Man - In an alternate possibility-

You may have a teacher coming to find you.

I had the another sort of the same experiences.

So - I opened the door to let it come in to visit.

It helps to have someone on the other side to give advice.

If you have possibilities of growth - you may have one of the immortals.

Don't tell this to your shrink - they make a lot of $ from the pink tabs.

I love meditation that allows one to just relax and give up. Surrender. For purposes of the thread I will call this formless meditation. It is like giving up all your worries, you problems, your thoughts and concerns, everything. I heard somewhere that it is the highest kind of meditation that one can engage in. I believe in Taoism this is called "sitting in forgetfulness"? The feeling of surrender and an empty mind is very, very blissful. The form that I use was taken from the words of Father Bede Griffiths, O.S.B when he says "surrender to the mother." He describes an experience where he had a stroke and felt his mind empty.. where he was laid out for days and was expected to die. These words came into his mind. He himself expected that he would die, and finally instead of fighting it, surrendered to it. Accompanying this was an incredible feeling of bliss. And instead of dying, he recovered and lived to tell about it.

 

Basically, what it is is to empty the mind of all thoughts, conceptions, activities and perceptions. Letting go of all concerns the past, present and future and just experiencing the nothing which is something. For some people this is impossible to do but with enough training in meditation it comes fast enough. It is surrendering and letting false conceptions of self drop away. I am a man, my wife is angry, i have to go to class tomorrow etc. You let go and surrender it. all. and go into emptiness. There is nothing more stress-relieving.

 

 

However on the other hand, active meditation has it part too. I am sure in the traditions that involve the cultivation of certain abilities, an active form of meditation is utilized. Meaning, a form of meditation that has a certain purpose that uses a certain kind of imagery or focus. Like imagining colours in the chakras, focusing on or making an invocation to buddha or maitreya, that sort of thing. Instead of surrendering you make a conscious effort to hold onto one thing and that, only that. Like building the dantien. Or feeling your energetic body. Of course to get somewhere you have to make an effort in walking, and perhaps becoming an immortal or such will be hard work. Siddhi and "supernatural" phenomena do not come without a price. Taking energy and storing it is a real earnest effort, not something you pick up at 7-11. In our own practice if you want to make a lightbulb crush a tile you have to focus energy into it and believe that it is heavy and hard. I have heard people say its easy to be a master of the tao, you have to be as effortless as possible but then again they themselves don't seem to be what they preach so goodluck to them with that.

 

And there are an infinite number of mixes between to two that make different states of mind accessible.

 

Perhaps they both are the yin and yang of meditation, two wonderful sides of the same coin.

 

experiences? feel free to comment.

WoW there is intelligent life on this planet after all (\^..^/)

Experiences?

Somewhere between about/around 20 or 50 years of the same as you've posted.

(I'm shy of telling my untrue age ) But then again I'm not shure of which life I'm in right now either. All I know is that I've been here before and would like to do it again. (I had a really good birthmother)

For Active meditation I usually give it the name of Taoism as from my experiences/present understandings is that the Tao is a bit structured (right brain) with a core center foundation of universal timng. It's good for building things like roadmaps on how to get places.

Whereas with Passive or Creative (Left Brain) meditation, I usually attribute it to Buddhism and presently consider it as meditaton in it's pure form.

Of course I like to leave room for the universal constant of ((((Change))))

The problem with Buddhist meditation is that once I get into it, it's hard to get out of it.

By the way, I practice savasana yoga as a form of escape / astral projection and overall mental evolution - also for somewhere between 20 to 50 years.

Lately I've been experimenting with crystals and their energy and found them to be a fairly good meditation aid/focus - or maybe just a good reminder - but off subject - I am also finding a bit of a healing energy coming from them that is 'V'ery much akin to the risings I got from when I went through the steps of Kundalini Yoga.

Here's a megawebsite that claims the Chakra's are but a "motion in the alchemy of time." http://www.crystalinks.com/chakras.html

Try to Be a tad carefull of the website - I've seen it blossom, over the years, from a tiny webpage to one that she claims has around 50,000 files to get lost in.

Just last night I missed 5 TV shows while learning stuff from it.

Mo'Later

lol its easy for me to be a saint in this room, but ill show how much of a saint i am in my physical day job.

look at yours egos when ur suffering, that is the right time to meditate.

everybody can play a saint in a pleasurable environment, but go ahead live through something harsh and see what type of saint you really are.

hard times are perfect for meditation

am i wrong?

Dislexia?

Hard times are brought on by no meditation = The perfect time for meditation is always NoW.

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1d9qz_spi...-pt1_shortfilms

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1da00_spi...lity-pt2_people

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1da8v_spi...-pt3_shortfilms

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1dae5_spi...ty-pt4_creation

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1daj2_spi...eality-pt5_blog

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1danq_spi...eality-pt6_news

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1dapv_spi...lity-pt7_people

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1dijt_spi...lity-pt8_school

I would like some feedback on awakening the third eye.

ralis

From what I have read of the posts on this topic, it seems that most are confusing enlightenment with the 3rd eye.

Enlightenment contains the 3rd eye process - whereas the 3rd eye process does not necessarily contain enlightenment.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I borrow this from one of Steam's posted discoveries

at

http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?/topic/11802-awakening-psychic-abilities/page__st__100__p__153573__fromsearch__1entry153573

post #118 .

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1d9qz_spi...-pt1_shortfilms

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1da00_spi...lity-pt2_people

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1da8v_spi...-pt3_shortfilms

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1dae5_spi...ty-pt4_creation

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1daj2_spi...eality-pt5_blog

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1danq_spi...eality-pt6_news

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1dapv_spi...lity-pt7_people

http://www.dailymotion.pl/video/x1dijt_spi...lity-pt8_school

In order for one to achieve spiritual transformation should one have to isolate himself from society at large or is it possible to attain enlightenment through daily practice (referring to meditation, mindfulness, compassion amongst other noble qualities) as a unit of society?

Anyone can be a monk on the mountain.

Hey all,

Vegetarianism seems to be a common "requisite" for many spiritual traditions. Certain Buddhists, the Essenes, Hinduism, Certain Yogis, holders of the Light and Sound Meditation, etc. I was just reading this article...

 

http://www.hinduwebsite.com/divinelife/essays/veg.asp

 

...which makes a few interesting points about spiritual life in general. Thought it'd be fun to share. Love to hear sum opinions on this since it's still a rather controversial topic.

 

-Astral

Diet is one of the steps toward the return to our normal nature.

The more we return to nature, the more that we are able to perform naturaly.

There are reasons the ancients would live in the forrest, on mountains, as hermits.

I suggest to begin here: http://www.rawfoods.com/

Hello Mikaelz,

It is possible to wake up in a dream totally lucid ,and this does not refer to astral travel,but waking up in own reality where one exists as a sort of vacuum reality from where sounds and light is coming and making us up as we are,shaping us.

So i suppose im interested to learn to traverse mindscape more regulary,efficiantley.Its like mind tricking its self out of its self.

I feel lucid dreaming has potential to be a good mental excersise ,but maybe i could be wrong too.

I've posted it about 15 times - search for 'Savasana' or go buy a book on it.

.

.

.

.

.

 

Through the words of Zen master Bankei, I have learned how to 'enter' stillness at any time, and not just in times of formal meditation.

 

Nothing to do with rules.

Nothing and everything . . . Form follows finction.

If U don't know the steps , how to walk the path?

This is the difference between the 'Believers path' and those that know how to see the Way.

U should not have moved from the way you were imersed in... http://www.dailyzen.com/default.asp

o

Why and who was responsible for this to even have a chance to start in the beginning of all things when there was only light and mist? Find and name them for us so they can be given the full blame and be punished for what they did not stop way back when.

 

Then come see me...

Why come see you when you can't see yourself?

Besides, there was no "Why and who was responsible for this to even have a chance to start "

I've said it before and I'll say it one more time for those mentaly challanged: There is no god - and I'll add that the jesus thing was an invention for the weak minded and corrupt that commit what they cannot forgive themselves as the only person that can forgive you is you. Live with it as a person responsible for your own actions.

I think it is written that way so outsiders couldn't easily understand the practices and that oral transmissions were/are necessary. Sometimes I wonder how far Taoism would have gone if there were a "straight-forward" approach like the eight fold Buddhist path.

To me, it has been like a puzzle - once the pattern emerges, it kinda just all falls into place.

Beyond the shadow of a doubt -Meditation is the key to the door of understanding.

As it was happening, I saw it as a phaze of enlightenment - but it was only a step 1. Since, there has been steps 2,3,4,5,6,7,8, ... and by now I'm hoping they never end.

One thing about Hong Kong is I can go places and not need to drive - there are Busses, trains etc to take you everywhere you want to go. A few of the phases could have been bad news if I was driving... Also I meditate a lot where I am in one city when beginning and ZAPO - I just lost an hour... Or maybe I just gained an hour... ?

I am curious about the vision of Taoist immortality. First a small amount of background info on where I stand with Taoism: I prefer information that's been made available in translation of Lao Tzu (Laozi), Chuang Tzu (Zhuangzi) and Lieh Tzu (Liezi). Upon reading all 3 authors in translation (in English), and in some cases reading 2 or more competing translations, I come out in complete agreement with the 3 big dudes of Taoism. I agree with them. I think they raise interesting questions and tell interesting stories. And I think one can extract a lot of very valuable and practical advice for both day to day life and for esoteric practice.

 

However! And this is a big however, not only is there no mention of immortality in the 3 key Taoist texts, but what's even worse for the seekers of immortality, they appear to advocate embracing the change! All 3 talk about the seasons, and how there is a season for everything. How things take their turns. Chuang Tzu specifically talks about death and asks something to the effect of, "Is death really as bad as we think? Why not embrace it?" This seems completely opposite of the attitude of the immortality seekers (More Pie Guy, and other serious neigong practitioners, can you hear me? ). So I don't think real Taoism has anything to do with immortality. At the same time, I admit I find all the stories of immortals to be interesting and I don't dismiss them out of hand either, but this brings me to my questions.

 

So how does the whole thing work? First, do neigong practitioners really strive for immortality? It seems like many do, but I don't want to assume this. In particular, do any neigong practitioners on this forum want to become immortals?

 

When I look at this world, I think the worst part is not so much that the life is limited in duration or that we are vulnerable, but that things are bureaucratic and that fearful and insecure people take actions that are too extreme for the situation or are not strong enough for the situation (judgment errors), and all these judgment errors accumulate and create a lot of unnecessary suffering.

 

Does anyone consider that if you could live forever on this planet, life would be boring? Are you planning to be am immortal on this planet or will you fly away? Does anyone think that having a lot of personal history is as much a disadvantage as it is an advantage? On the plus side, you remember a lot of lessons, let's say, but on the minus side, as an immortal you carry a lot of historical baggage that prevents you from seeing in new ways. Try to imagine someone with a 1,000,000 year history. Is that helpful?

 

As a way of a small example, when I dream, on most occasions I do not remember who I am in the waking world (unless I am lucid, in which case I cam remember everything about the body being in bed, about who I am in the waking world, and so on). For the most part, not remembering who I am outside the context of a dream is not necessarily a hindrance or something bad. I've not really been inconvenienced by it. There are some things I do want to remember, but they tend to be more of a principle than remembering all the actual life events. So for example, I want to remember in all of my dreams that I am not controlled by my dreams. But I don't necessarily care to remember that in my waking life, 4 hours before I went to sleep, I drank a glass of water. That seems silly and useless. I think most life events are useless to remember. When I die, I don't necessarily want to remember all of this life, but I do want to remember some "takeaway points" if you will. Some useful transcendent principles. I actually would like to forget all the other fluff. But as an immortal, it seems like you'd have a very long (infinite?) personal history with lots of useless junk in it.

 

I also wonder about this: where do troubles come from? For example, why do people form insane bureaucracies? Is it because I am a mortal? So if I become an immortal, suppose I go to the Jade Palace, the land of the immortals. How can I be sure it won't be a yet another crappy bureaucracy? Why does everyone seem to be assuming that every other world out there, especially the ones immortals depart to, are really nice places to be, and so nice in fact, that one would wish to stay there forever in an eternal body? I think it's kind of funny, but imagine you arrive at the Jade Palace where everyone is an immortal, and so, first of all, you're no longer special. You're not an immortal among mortals. Now you are an average Joe in this new world. They tell you to take a number. You see a big line and start waiting. Eventually you reach a little window and they hand you out a little ID card and so on.

 

If these immortals live as a society, surely they'll have conflicting interests. And if that's the case, surely they'll have bureaucracies or worse to manage all the conflicts. On the other hand, maybe immortals are not really social. Maybe immortals are like lone cats that wonder through the universe(s) alone? But then I have to ask this: if you accept a departure from society in your psyche, surely you can be very resplendently happy right here and right now without going anywhere? Social conflicts only have meaning if you really care about society, are interested in it, want to be a social participant and so forth.

 

Then, let's say you are not bothered by any social concerns. Let's say the thing that bothers you is your bodily frailty. Now, suppose you practice neigong to refine your body, or give birth to a new body. This represent a change from one body to another, through effort. If you can accomplish a change in body through effort, doesn't it make sense that you'll need to continue to expend further effort to maintain this body in good shape, and that as soon as you stop expending effort, the body will collapse and die? In other words, if the body is not already and inherently immortal, and if it is your effort that made it immortal, what makes you think the body won't require further effort to stay immortal? This also means constantly worrying about the onset of mortality. So even if you're an immortal, you will still have constant worry and concern that if you're not vigilant, you can revert to mortal condition at any time. Isn't this kind of life as much hassle as being a mortal in the first place? What if you learn to accept bodily modifications, including any and all disease, pain, and so on, and learn to transcend it internally without requiring that your body itself be made immortal? How does that option sound?

 

Another thing is belief in substance. Do you, neigong practitioners, believe in substance? In other words, do you believe you are transmuting and dealing with subtle substances in the body when you practice neigong? In my opinion, if you believe that all phenomena are backed by some universal objectively existent substance, the best way to manipulate and study such substance is with the scientific method. On the other hand, let's say you reject the idea of an ultimate universal objective substance. This would mean you believe all phenomena are manifestations of the primordial objectless awareness, like a blind man seeing rainbows and like a deaf man hearing music, etc., just visions without any substance or objects behind them. This means you can learn to control and to orchestrate these visions, but then, why bother with such substance-tied ideas as energy and energy meridians? You have so much freedom if you believe everything is just mind. So why not use that freedom? Why make up a vision of energy channels that mimic the body's shape? What is the point of that? I can understand if you believe those channels are inherently there because that's how the universal objective substance is arranged, you have to follow what's been given to you at birth. But if you don't believe there's anything objective that's been "given" to you, and if you realize your own body is just a vision, why make another vision on top of it? Why create a vision of energy meridians on top of this already visionary body? Why not, for example, simply dissolve the body, or depart from it? Why tinker with it?

 

So it seems, if you set out to tinker with the body, you must really believe in substance, but if you really believe in substance, then science is the much better way to study and to manipulate substance. But if you don't believe in substance, practices like MCO make very little sense.

 

Is it because MCO is traditional and thus, safe? Is there safety in tradition? Safety in numbers? So if you made up your own practice, you'd feel you are crazy, right? But if you follow what thousands of others have followed, you feel much safer, more sane, right? But if you are that attached to society and social conventions, then how do you expect to live a happy life as an immortal? Please refer to immortal bureaucracy above.

 

Please understand that I am not a doubting Thomas. I believe almost anything is possible. I believe you can go through walls if you want, and leave your footprints in the rock. None of this requires one to be an immortal or to practice MCO. I just think that the idea immortality and the idea that energy practice leads to immortality is... how shall I say it... not consistent with itself. It hides a lot of contradictions and it betrays a lot of hidden weakness. So for example, immortal should be fearless, but how can you develop fearlessness by attaching yourself to an old tradition for safety sake? Big contradiction there.

 

I don't want to inhibit anyone. I am not trying to convince anyone to be like me. I like the different things that people do and like I said, I do believe a lot of strange things are possible. I hope someone can respond to some of the questions I raise for my own enjoyment and elucidation, and hopefully it will be fun for other people as well.