~jK~

 

 

If enlightenment is temporary then what's the point?

Not you - that is a certainity.

Try this: The Chinese perspective is that of a Bagua (Bagua means Language of 8) it is also called Yi Jing (also Chinese) or I Ching (English version).

The Chinese see all things having at least 2 different perspectives and more than likely 4 with the movement of time providing 4 more = 8.

As such -

enlightenment has more than one point of view -

Thus more than one stage of enlightenment.

Thus a movement in time resulting in higher and lower levels of understanding at various points = Some are Temporary.

Very Sad the level of education.

mikaelz, you've been around TTB long enough to where you shouldn't be needing to be spoon fed information.

A)Enlightenment is tricky...in essense enlightenment is just a spiritual elitism. Its born from the intellect. I personally feel u can go beyond enlightenment.

 

B )...Meh i think just the opposite. IMO its de-evolution. Ur going backwards persay..like u flunked a test and have to repeat it. Those who understand that nature is the manifestation of the godforce become infinite thus theirs no need to re-incarnate them.

After experiencing an Enlightenment the next is step 2 - Each step is more intense.

Although...

If you have been there you would know it is not intellect - it is genetic knowledge.

There is only one way to de-evolve - suicide AKA: early death.

Enlightenment is only a repeat of an event we have already been through - but don't remember.

However - You're on the right track - 'just need to ride your 10 speed & meditate to see the rest. The real secret is a well oiled chain and good pressure in the tires.

Think I'm joking? what is there to loose by trying it ? 4 things to remember, Helmet,

One other - Tunes ! http://magnatune.com/artists/albums/teng-enchanted/

My understanding is that in Daoism the cycle is not viewed as a problem. It is suggested to learn how to be one with the flow of things so that you don't do things out of turn or against the tide of time. So if you move with the times and behave summerly during summer and winterly during winter, you can be at peace with the changes, and the cycles won't hurt you. You will have enjoyable time and experience transcendent bliss and be largely or entirely free of fear of death and disease.

 

The Daoist believe that humans suffer because they are not observant, and because they are stubborn. So humans behave winterly during summer and summerly during winter, and thus they suffer. So if you wear lots of clothing in the summer, you suffer. Then you run around scantily clothed in the winter and again you suffer. So you always act out of turn, and you always push and pull with brute force to get your way in the world.

 

Daoist texts teach to use minimum pushing and pulling, to use minimum struggle. In Chuang Tzu there is an example of a guy who jumps into the waterfall and survives. When asked how can he do it, he replies, paraphrased, "I don't fight the water. I allow my body to adjust itself with the water, and thus I am alive."

 

So instead of escaping the cycle, the Daoist remedy is to be wise about the cycle, to be attentive, to use minimum force, to act at the correct time and during the correct season and so on.

 

That's how I understand it.

To see the reality of the Tao - you got to live it. In China where it has been for thousands of years. It isn't just the book. It is also the philosophy, the language both written and spoken, the neighbors, the government etc etc etc.

Great stuff!

Thanks!

It was a test to see how much you write and how much you plagurize - of course we all know the truth long before the test was passed out.

Not even a decent con ...

One look at your website is all it took to see that you ran dry a Loooong time ago.

My book coming out even as I write this ... it is being printed at Cambridge Press . . .

The copyright was from 09-August 09

They thought only propper to give a Little Copyright warning

I agree: If we become 1 with the universe we will be infinite.

To become 1 with the infinite universe is enlightenment.

Simply realize all is one is all that is.

The cycle is broken by understanding.

Suffering is the illusion.

 

We are here to evolve.

Reincarnation is Evolution.

We create our heaven or hell through our Children.

Our Children's Children are our next life...

Make your Children better than your life.

Then you will have Evolved.

This is the Chinese Way.

This is the TAO.

 

This is why I came to live in China - to live the Tao by becoming 1 with the TAO.

It is why wherever the Chinese go they seek out other Chinese that understand

the TAO.

Look at the picture to the Left of this post - it is the oldest form of art on earth.

http://www.google.com.au/#hl=en&source=hp&q=flower+of+life&rlz=1W1GGLL_en&aq=f&aqi=g10&aql=&oq=&gs_rfai=&fp=cbbd3991ae78bd94

It is found in every ancient developed civilization from the Temple of Isis in Egypt to the ball under the lion dog's foot in Beijing, China.

http://www.ka-gold-jewelry.com/p-articles/flower-of-life.php

It is the structure of family.

I personally think if u become 1 with the universe u will be infinite

I agree: If we become 1 with the universe we will be infinite.

To become 1 with the infinite universe is enlightenment.

Simply realize all is one is all that is.

The cycle is broken by understanding.

Suffering is the illusion.

We are here to evolve.

Reincarnation is Evolution.

We create our heaven or hell through our Children.

Our Children's Children are our next life...

Make your Children better than your life.

Then you will have Evolved.

This is the Chinese Way.

This is the TAO.

This is why I came to live in China - to live the Tao by becoming 1 with the TAO.

http://www.hiddenbible.com/enoch/online.html I wanted to add this web site it is the best! Notice it says the Hidden Book Of Enosh...

Well it's Mel again,

I find this very interesting... I know we are all people of different faiths and different thought. This is only one idea. I'm not trying to push anything off on anyone. I'm very open minded to different ideas myself. I think we can all be right, thats just me. "Live with love, in your heart"... "Treat others as you, want to be treated" This is what I do...

 

I love God, and Jesus. And no matter what your faith, I think it's good to look into all, or almost all. I don't like Church or the ways of Churches. I pray and meditate and show my love, right where I sit.

 

But I just want to throw something out there to talk about. Whats everyones idea on, The "Fallen Angels" Nephilim.? The giant elongated skulls they find to this day. what was there roll? And how many of you believe they still play a roll to this day, not in the physical but spiritual? You know it say's in Genesis... "The sons of God saw that the daughters of men were so beautiful, and they married any of them they chose" Thus came about the giant Nephilim, "They were the heros of old, men of renown" The book of Enoch has been left out of our Holy Bible for some reason. And it goes into all this in much more detail. Why leave it out? When it had such important information. It also says somewhere in the Bible" Do not add, or take away from this book" So please all. Penny for your thought. What do you think?

 

Has anyone had an Incubus attack, or anything else that could bind this together? Could be, Incubus is Fallen Angel... Now I don't want to get peoples blood boiling, lets just have a pleasant discussion. No one is wrong, and no one is right. But if you like to say so. So be it... This is the beauty of a forum...

 

Ok what do you think? Take care Melanie

In order to communicate in terms of reality - you need to speak in real terms - Are you speaking in terms of your desires ?

gg.

Death is always easy - particularly for those that think they know it all...

It is always living that is the challange.

The simple point that you are writing about it is in itself a pointer that you begin to welcome it, wish for it, look for an opportunity for make it true.

You should print this and give it t your friends etc before they ride with you driving a car.

You can also give it to a psycharitist and get a free -as in paid for by the taxpayer vacation- in a mental hospital.

Will attaining nondualistic awareness, or realizing truth(in a Buddhist sense) end rebirth in your opinion?

Hey JK,

Enjoying that Quicksilver Messenger Service - Fresh Air is sweet... Mel Thanks

Awwww I picked you for a White Bird person:

Well, It'll still be here when you pop out of your shell

White Bird - It's a Beautiful Day - Live - 1971 (stereo)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N0J77CRMeTA&feature=related

Excellent post Songs.

 

For those who don't understand what is meant by 'ego' and think that having OBEs will 'get rid of your ego' -- the ego is the sense of self, the clinging to an I, the sense that 'I' am separate from everything else, that there is an inner something which I identify with and then there's the external beings or world which are related but are somehow different than I.

 

Having such experiences may test the boundaries of the ego but ultimately there will just be identification with a more subtle body than the physical body. The illusion of the self has not been seen through and may actually create an even strong sense of self than before "Look at me, I'm so enlightened and spiritual because I can zip outta my head and talk to Zeus"

 

If you're looking for a thrill and want to see what's out there, what may be more important to do is to just give it all up, surrender here and now, and be totally present and mindful of your experience as it arises. See all sensations as impermanent vibrations that come and ago. Reality is just a flow of vibrations that we believe are "out there" or "in here" but really they are neither. There's no such thing as "physical" reality or "astral realms" or anything of the like. There is only one reality with different states or lenses, so once you figure out the truth here and now, it applies to everything. No need to go anywhere for the truth. Just here and now, this moment. That's it.

Before OBE is possible, other than as a fantasy, you must defeat the Guardian of The Gates... If you dare to meet me.

I have recently been doing a lot of soul searching and research into religion. I've been learning about Christianity and have read finished reading the gospels as well as multiple books by C.S. Lewis on Christianity such as Mere Christianity. I was wondering if anyone here knows of any good books that summarize what Taoism is all about like Mere Christianity does for Christianity? Also does Taoism have a holy book which is the equivalent to the bible? Would that be the Tao de Ching? I read part of it in college.

Eastern thought systems are not based on beliefs - but rather philosophies.

Begin here as it is most simple: http://www.amtbweb.org/

Next is here as it begins with details described from 8 differing perspectives:

http://www.amazon.com/Tao-Power-Leadership-Excellence-translation/dp/0385196377

If you don't want to include the things OBE brings into the equation, then it easy to leave it alone unless you have a problem with spontaneous projection. Otherwise, I feel if ignoring it or assuming it as something as useless as a toy is self detrimental, IMO only. It is easy to see when someone has made up their mind, and little reason exists to change it if these beliefs aren't causing any harm. It is like owning a plot of land, unless your nearest residents turn around and decide to burn you to death in your barn then its well enough to leave each other be. So, I'll let you be.

 

Though, what I do find to be at least a nuisance is the "hint dropping" since your beliefs are just that, and even if you feel that they have allowed you to climb to a plane much above our own, or perhaps you feel it helps us somehow to say these things - it equates to throwing useless facts at a person like saying the Effiel Tower is so many feet tall, or the soil is only so deep in Southern California due to sediments. Koans are meant to change the way a person is thinking and open the doors of perception. If that is really what is being attempted here perhaps you should change the approach that is being used. No harm done.

Mokona, When I drop a hint - it is intended to simply point to a way that I have experienced as a working possibility - not as education - which seems to be what you are trying to do.

Would you mind qualifying your statements so they seem less like barking ?

To the best of my knowledge you are no one's father or even a moderator on this website.

Nevermind - I've decided to simply place you on my Iggy list. ~ By Bye ~

 

Hi there,

Only a toy, well it's a good toy...lol I know just what your talking about. What a great way to put it. Those where some lucky lady's. I guess you just moved of to China, but can still visit anyways. Good way to cut down on air fair...lol And long distance phone calls... This toy is getting more useful the more I think about it.

 

As far as sexual energy being powerful, there is no doubt about that, and some more than others. Is it a hallucination? I wonder... Well I'm getting tired time for bed. I guess your just getting started in China. Thats so crazy how different the time is. I bet that took some getting used to...

 

Oh didn't know if you got that message earlier, it came back. But that sounds good... Melanie

P.S. have a good one

Hey - I got the web all to myself !

MeThinks you is just beginning to learn to play with toys

It is interesting to me that sex has been mentioned in the context of OBEs. At a previous point in my life I spent a lot of time roleplaying out fantasy sex scenes online. I had a few of my partners tell me that roleplaying with me was unlike playing with other people. One of them said that there was a sense of physical presence there, as if it were real. The online forum in a way became a conduit for shared hallucination, a medium through which two minds could become synchronized in fantasy.

 

It seems as if sexual energy is very powerful. My suspicion is that it has something to do with it being the basis of creation.

http://tankerenemy.blogspot.com/2010/08/age-of-treason-1958-book-exposes.html

 

Has anyone read this book or have a copy or know where to get one??? I've been trying to get a hold of this but the only copies available are on amazon and go for $160-$200.

 

On a side note, what do you guys think about this topic. Apparently this whole subject dates back to Nazi Germany and even before that. Any other resources you guys can suggest on this topic? ANy knowledge/insight you can share.

 

Much Appreciated

-Astral

IT may not fit within some people's beliefs placed on government but it is documented very well even in USA Gov't archives on the net: http://tarpley.net/online-books/george-bush-the-unauthorized-biography/

JK

Only a toy? Really... Mel

Yes - only a toy.

It exists but only to those that know how to create it.

You even use it to play imaginative sex games as a sex toy - without any ability in reality.

What other benefit is there?

Actually, I've noticed that projection is a powerful energy working method. I've seen people physically effected over distance with OBE/projection. I won't get into an argument though, it all comes down to perception, and if you can't find a use for it, it is better that you can keep out of the way for those who do, it is better that way.

If you get a chance go see the film 'Inception' it is about OBE.

The movie's Video trailer :

Yes I believe so also. Instead of dropping me "hints" just elaborate in simple English what the heck you are driving at.

Just wait here and I'll be right back.

A few more hints: Reincarnation and Evolution are the same word.

A few more hints: Reincarnation and Evolution are the same word.

Well just looking at what is available on the market, people in general don't seem to accomplishing much. A few systems get results in a few specific area's. A few teachers have a good reputation for producing results.

 

The mainstream practices that are commonly used don't really seem to be doing a whole lot to be honest. People sink their entire lives into these things like vipassana, zen, transcendental meditation, etc. all for naught.

 

I just want to see someone who claims to adhere to some practice clearly state it's purpose, and show how effective it has been in practice.

 

I think Jed McKenna says it better than I can:

A few more hints: Reincarnation and Evolution are the same word.

I want to start by saying that I respect where I think you are coming from. In your experience you have perceived many false teachers who seem to waste people's time with ineffective practice. Therefore you want to see the end result before you start any particular practice.

 

When I read what you wrote, I was put in mind of breaking boards. When I started training kung fu, I never considered that I could break a board. Yet when the time came, I was able to do so with ease. The ability came as a result of the training. It was not the purpose of the training.

 

When you mention various accomplishments by various teachers, have you considered that their accomplishments are simply milestones along a path to a much higher place? Have you purified your intent? Are you truly interested in the path, or are you simply following and trying to reproduce the byproducts of the path that you have seen performed by others?

 

One of my favorite Daoist sayings is, "If I only meet three people today, one of them can be my teacher." Have you perhaps considered that lessons are being offered to you each and every day; lessons are being offered to you by those you might consider yourself least inclined to learn from?