Marblehead

I'm in sunny Florida!

Me too!

Nice exchange Vajrahridaya.

Yes, that's fine as a Taoist view. Ok... I as a Buddhist don't agree though.

Hehehe. Oh, I'm sure we will disagree on a number of concepts. But I'll bet that we will agree much more often than we disagree.

I'm not sure all Taoists don't believe in re-birth.

I would even suggest that there are many who do believe in reincarnation, especially the religious ones. Even a couple places in Chuang Tzu one could infer that he was talking about reincarnation.

That' happens in the Jhana of infinite nothingness which is merely a state of focus that delves deep into what seems to be the unconscious, but consciousness is subtler than that as well. There are deeper dimensions of meditation as the texts say and as I have directly experienced.

I remain flexible regarding this subject. I do not have enough facts yet to form a fixed opinion. (And then, I have been known to change my mind at a moment's notice. Hehehe.)

Be well!

Hi Chris,

I use the term "life force" often in some of my discussions. I also hold firmly to the validity of the concept and have practiced it on a few occasions.

Thanks for sharing the info on the book.

Be well!

Hi Kitherapyworks,

Welcome!

May you enjoy your time here.

Be well!

Hi Resonance,

Nice comments. Just want to comment on one thing you mentioned:

... their most common advice was "stop struggling! Leave yourself alone!" The view was WuWei...

Wu wei, in my opinion, does not mean doing nothing. It is more at doing naturally. Responding when conditions require a response else do nothing.

Many of the Hippies during the sixties got this confused. Most did nothing - just sucked off the efforts of others. That is not Tao.

This concept applied to the individual person suggests that if there is something we should do, we do it. If we need make a change in our life we make the change then we leave it alone. Yes, we will even sometimes have to struggle - to change a bad habit or whatever. (Actually, we shouldn't even have habits, we should live spontaneously although this can be very difficult because of our need to earn a dollar.)

Be well!

Hi Awake,

Hey guys, recently I've been having some feelings

That's great!!! It means you are alive.

I can't help with any of the other stuff though.

Be well!

Hi Guys,

Just curious. Within the concept of Darwin's theory of evolution, how does an egg evolve?

Be well!

Hi Fire,

Though I am coming to the realization in the last few months that I am agnostic.

Hehehe. Well, at least being an Agnostic you can say "I don't know." I have gone so far as to admit that I am an Atheist. (I'm pretending I know. Shame on me.)

Be well!

Hi Stigweard,

Nice. However ... (Yeah, in my life there are lots of 'howevers')

I would still like to suggest that Tao is the egg and that Tzujan was the means of fertilization. (No chicken yet.) In fact, no Mystery, Yin, Yang or Chi yet until Tao begins its transmutation.

Consider this, if you will. In the beginning, (yes, there really was no beginning, just another change) only undifferentiated Tao existed - all was One. Because of Tzujan (Nature [what-is-ness]) Tao began its transmutation. From Tao emerged Mystery (wu) (potential everything) and Chi (pure energy) (Yin and Yang being the polarities of Chi). The interactions of Chi with Mystery produced the Manifest (yo).

I will stop for now.

Be well!

Hi Fire,

Nice post. Very nice response from Zhuo Ming-Dao as well.

The truth is, we all have our own journey and we each must walk our own path. Sometimes we walk alone, sometimes we walk with others for a while. A path that is good for me might be very bad for another.

And I agree that if we have not walked a particular path we really don't know if it would be good for us or not. And even if we have walked the path and found that it is not good for us this doesn't mean that it would not be good for another. We can speak only for ourself.

I personally hold to no religion but I recognize that for many people there is a need to have something greater to look to rather than their confused manifest life. Religion offers continuity to many.

This is also true regarding various practices for attaining whatever. Formal practices offer continuity. If we can find continuity withour religion or formal practices then this too is good.

It is my understanding that the foremost object in our life is to be content and at peace with our Self. How we attain this condition will always be an individual effort even though we might walk with others during our journey.

Be well!

Wolf..i may be wrong and/or misunderstanding you but your post reads a little like you feel 'tainted' by anything 'other' and are under the impression there is some kind of 'pure' 'you' . All 'things' are 'conditioned' my friend..relax..

Hi Resonance,

I'm glad you added that. I wanted to add something like that to my post but I really don't want people here to think that I think that I am a "know-it-all".

It is true, everything in the universe, all things, are conditioned by the processes of Tzujan including Tao (which is a non-thing). Human life, I think, is among the most conditioned things in the universe (afterall, we are among the most recent manifestations in the universe).

And I will agree with your suggestion that a "pure you" is something very, very rare, if one exists at all. I think that the best we can do is to remove those conditioned aspects of ourself that prevent us from finding inner peace and contentment.

Be well!

You should read some Pali Suttas. The Buddha talks about remembering lives beyond the big-bang. As science says... this big bang is based upon how the last big suction happened. You are the microcosm of the macrocosm. Your current thought is based upon the infinite assortments of previous thoughts and their causes within infinite regress just as Michealz said. You indeed can see beyond the beginning of this cosmic eon, only through deep meditation or meditative contemplation.

Hi Vajrahridaya,

Perhaps I should but I won't. Hehehe. But what you said, IMO, has merit. I would question though, that Buddha talked about the 'big bang' as the term was not defined back during his life-time.

I do hold to the concept that life is cyclical. All life! Including the universe. I hold to the understanding that at some point in time the universe will stop expanding and begin its reversion back toward nothingness (Unity, the One).

I do not hold to the concept of reincarnation. That is a Buudhist concept and not a Taoist concept. Taoism has a concept I call transmutation. That is, everything that is, is, always has been and always will be. It is just that things take different form over time.

I do not hold to the concept of a universal consciousness nor of a consciousness of Tao. Therefore, IMO, all consciousness would be lost in the state of Oneness. (Actually, that is what happens in deep meditation.)

So, getting back to the chicken and egg, Tao is the egg, the Manifest (things) is the chicken. The egg has always been, the chicken (things) manifested from the egg.

Be well!

Interesting article. Thanks for sharing.

Be well!

Hi Kris,

Welcome!

May you enjoy your time here.

Just a note: The spiritual aspect of my life is centered around North American Native spirituality.

Be well!

Hi Resonance,

Welcome!

May you enjoy your time here.

Be well!

Hi Monkeyman,

Welcome!

May you enjoy your time here. (And may you enjoy your journey into Taoism.)

Be well!

Nice comments Mikaelz.

Be well!

Hi Findley,

Just my personal opinion and it doesn't come from any book.

First, you said it yourself: Now, I am spending my attention on trying to realize tao-- and that is my folly.

It is my opinion that we do not 'realize' Tao - we experience Tao.

As far as experiencing, that is, being totally immersed in Tao, there are only two states: total chaos or total emptiness. Chaos being you think something happened but you have no idea what it was. Emptiness being no thought, not even a describable experience, kinda' like you weren't even there but you know you were gone.

I was told many years ago that it isn't even good to try to totally immerse yourself in Tao (the wu state) because you might not come back. It was also suggested that if I wanted the experience I should have someone very knowledgeable present to bring me back if I became totally immerse. (I never tried it.)

And like I said, I can't quote you any book because my opinion is based on what a number of people who are much wiser than I am told me a few years ago.

However, one can attain the wu state (emptiness) for a short period of time without any problems.

Be well!

I'm interested in how perceptive you are, take a guess at how old I am, you can use estimations not exact guesses, like 50-55, i'm looking forward to your reply~

I would guess you to be in your late teens or early twenties although I lean more toward the late teens.

Be well!

Hi Lucky,

Valid points, I think. Yes, we learn in phases. Where I have the problem is when someone says "This is "the" way and it is the "only" way."

There are, in my opinion, many different ways of learning the same thing. So I will give to the thought that for those who need more structure in their learning a structured method would likely be the best.

And I do agree that if you are learning a particular school then the 'master'? should be teaching the school's methods, as exact as possible.

Be well!

I believe you're quite far in your quest but there is much doubt in my mind that you have completed it

Funny! I didn't know I had anything to prove to you. (Just joking but I'm half-way serious as well.)

'Tis true that my journey will not end until the day I die. And there is always more to be learned, more experiences to be had, more hearts to break (Ooops, those day are finished), more time and words to share with others. I might even be able to help some folks along the way. Hey! I might even find someone who is going my way and I can walk with them for a while.

To explain my understanding of the words:

The "quest" is the awakening and realization that there is some place to go.

The "journey" is the means of getting there.

The "path" is actually plural because we will follow many paths along our journey.

"There" doesn't exist: there is no destination - it is the journey that matters.

Be well!

Yes, yes... everyone here is so wise, they don't need living teachers and living examples to reflect off of. That's fabulous! Only when we are all completely liberated will we not have need for hierarchy. We will just play with them as games of expression according to karmic traces left as empty, luminous collections that act as humans.

 

Samsara is beginningless and endless, as there are infinite beings, so hierarchy either corrupted or well placed with understanding of abstract needs will always be.

 

I like to walk the line between disorganized abstractions and organized linearity and manifest as a harmony of the seeming duality.

Hehehe. I don't believe I suggested that I was wise. I simply am. I can voice only my own opinion - I have done that. Those who wish to have teachers should stand out in the middle of the road and let a teacher find them. (Well, maybe not the road but you know what I mean.)

Pleace forgive me for my ignorance of Buddhist concepts but I am not Buddhist.

I love your last sentence! I love harmony! I gave up trying to find balance a long time ago. Darn! Things kept changing!

Be well!

I'm sure you jest about the quest, you seem to be through the quest a great deal but have not reached salvation, unless my senses are lying, I was given a percentage of how far I am through my journey/quest by very wise ex-friends, 22%, I started the quest in last december and i'm constantly seeking to change my ways and become my true self, I hope you aren't just joking and have reached salvation though~

Hi Wolf,

No joking - really. Salvation? What's that? I have never felt the need to be saved. I am exactly where I am supposed to be. (Don't ask me where that is, I have no idea.)

My quest started in 1970 when I was in Vietnam. My quest ended in 1985 when I proclaimed myself a philosophical Taoist. I have been on my journey since that time. Oh, sure, I have gotten lost a couple times but I found my way back to where I was supposed to be.

Now, don't understand that I am suggesting that I am a Sage and full of wisdom. Most folks suggest that I am full of something else. Hehehe. But I am at peace with my Self and I feel that's a pretty good state to be in.

Be well!

I have never liked the concept of hierarchy.

Sure, we should know something about the path we are travelling at the time but it is my belief that if there are more pit-stops available than you feel a need for then you ought to by-pass those you do not feel a need for. Yeah, sometimes we mess up and need to back-track but isn't that where some of the fun in life can be had? Making our own mistakes and learning from them.

Be well!

Indeed it is a quest, the quest only I can persue, but you also have the same quest waiting for you, when we start our quests may differ, but I know you'll start yours at some point in your life

Hehehe.

My quest is finished. I am simply walking the path I have selected. (Sure, I'm still learning but that is only natural.)

Be well!