Marblehead

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Posts posted by Marblehead

  1. Posted

    When Yiliao of Southmarket met the Marquis of Lu, the latter had a worried look.

    "Why do you have such a worried look?" asked Master Southmarket.

    "I have studied the Way of the former kings and have cultivated the inheritance of the former rulers of Lu," said the Marquis of Lu.  "I respect the ghosts of the departed and honor men of worth.  All this I attend to personally and without being idle for a moment, yet I cannot avoid calamity.  That is why I am worried."

    "Your techniques for ridding yourself of calamity are shallow," said Master Southmarket.  "The thick-furred fox and the elegantly spotted leopard inhabit the mountain forest and lurk in cliffside caves - such is their stillness.  At night they move around but during the day they stay at home - such is their caution.  Though hungry and thirsty, they keep aloof, preferring instead to range far afield along lakes and rivers in search of food - such is their determination.  Yet they cannot avoid the calamity of nets and snares.  Where lies the blame?  It's their pelts that bring them disaster.  Now, is not the state of Lu your lordship's pelt?  I would have you strip away your form and peel off your pelt, cleanse your mind and remove your desires, and go wandering in no-man's-land.  In Namviet {{South (nam) of the state of Yŭeh (viet).  This being unfamiliar territory to the Chinese during Chuang Tzu's time, its use here is to indicate a place that is remote.}} there is a fief called Country of Established Integrity.  Its people are ignorant and simple, with little selfishness and few desires.  They know how to make things but do not hoard them.  They give but do not expect recompense.  They know nothing about the application of righteousness and the operation of ceremony.  Though they move about randomly as if they were mad, their footsteps follow the great method.  Their births are celebrated with joy; their deaths are observed with funerals.  I would have you leave your state and renounce common custom, and proceed there under the guidance of the Way."

    "The way there must be distant and dangerous," said the lord.  "Furthermore, there are rivers and mountains.  Since I have no boat or carriage, what should I do?"

    Master Southmarket said,

    "Do not appear haughty,
    Do not be obstinate,
    That will be your carriage."

    "The way there must be remote and isolated," said the lord.  "Who will be my companion?  I have no grain or other food.  How can I obtain enough to reach there?"

    Master Southmarket said, "Diminish your expenditures; decrease your desires - although you have no grain, it will be sufficient.  Wade through the estuary and float on the sea, till no matter how hard you gaze you cannot see the shore and the farther your journey takes you the less you know where it will end.  Those who escort your lordship to the shore will return.  From that point on, you will be distant indeed!

    "Thus he who possesses others is tied down with troubles and he who is possessed by others is beset by worries.  Hence Yao neither possessed men nor was he possessed by them.  I would have your lordship throw off the ties that trouble you, get rid of the worries that beset you, and wander alone with the Way in the land of great Nothingness.

    "If someone is crossing a river in a double-hulled vessel and an empty boat comes and strikes against it, even though he may be a quick-tempered person, he will not be angry.  But if there is a person in the boat he will shout to him to steer clear.  If his first shout goes unheeded, he will shout again.  If the second shout goes unheeded, he will shout a third time, and that will certainly be followed by a stream of abuse.  In the previous instance he did not get angry but in the present instance he is angry, because the previous boat was empty but this one has a person in it.  If a person can empty himself and go wandering in the world, who can harm him?"
    • Like 1

  2. Posted

    4 hours ago, silent thunder said:

    I recall having that notion as a boy, but one day in my teens it struck me hard that we are not descended from the infirm and the easily duped.  We are the descendents of the agile, endurant, adaptive, clever, creative hominids who survived and eventually thrived to pass on their virtues and attributes.

    I was going to say something like that but you have said it much better than I would have.

     

    • Thanks 1

  7. Posted

    12 minutes ago, steve said:

     

    Death is necessary as resources and room in Earth are finite. Plus, things would get awfully dull and achy if we lived forever in these bodies...

    Yeah, if I ever become an immortal I would want a young, healthy body that doesn't grow old.

     

    • Like 1

  15. Posted

    11 minutes ago, dawei said:

    When viewed through the lens of duality, there is separation among us in every possible form and way; it is a feast for the senses for sure.

     

    But I can't help but be interested that the early daoist (if we can call then that) didn't look so strongly at separation, IMO.  The legalist, Hanfeizi, was named among three and the other two were known for their daoist positions.  Sima Qian said the Daoist [thought] incorporated the best of the rest.

     

    The comments about the impoverished asian cultures is an interesting point but focusing on their standard of living is like focusing on politics.    I would say asians are generally more open in energy, accepting and non-distinguishing than western cultures.   I'm not saying whether they are better, higher, more spiritual, etc... just say. 

    Yeah, Lao Tzu mentioned Duality vs Singularity a couple times but really didn't speak to the concept all that much.  I can't recall Chuang Tzu saying much about it.

     

    East/West - different?  Yes.  One better than the other?  I won't try to speak to that.  And I agree that it would be best to not include politics or even culture in a discussion of spirituality.

     

    • Like 2

  16. Posted

    2 minutes ago, wandelaar said:

    And that's why The Dao Bums is in danger of loosing its main Taoist or spiritual focus.

    I have no fear of that ever happening.  Too many of our members will keep those discussions going regardless of what else is being talked about within the various sub-forums.

     

    • Like 3

  23. Posted

    6 minutes ago, Michael Sternbach said:

     

    Note that there is a significant difference between religious instititions and genuine living spirituality. True seekers may or may not use the frameworks provided by the former, but at any rate, they are the exception, not the rule.

    Yes, I generally try to differentiate between an individual's religion and its spirituality aspects and the formal established institutions of various religions.

     

    • Like 1

  25. Posted

    24 minutes ago, thelerner said:

    You'd think so, yet historically, countries with many high level spiritual traditions, I'm thinking Tibet, Cambodia, India.. can wind up in some pretty bad places.. tyranny, extreme poverty..

     

    That is what I talk to when I talk about religious institutions.

     

    • Like 1