Marblehead

Hi ZAKI, Welcome! May you enjoy your time here. I am a philosophical Taoist. I hold to no religion. I feel that anyone, whether a religious person or not, can be a philosophical Taoist. Tao philosophy will not violate any aspect of any religion as far as I am aware of. There are many links at this site where you can find out more information. For someone just beginning their investigation of Taoist philosophy I most always recommend reading at least three different translations of the Tao Te Ching then read a translation of Chuang Tzu. These can be found here: http://terebess.hu/english/lexikon/l.html My understanding (which could be off) is that philosophical Taoism is more concerned with the tao te ching philosophy, spirituality, alchemy and enlightenment. I know the intentions were honest but the Tao Te Ching does not really speak to the subjects of spirituality, alchemy or enlightenment. Many people feel it does and that is okay. Enjoy your search. Be well!

Yea!!!!! I get to agree with Magitek!!!! Be well!

Hehehe. Belly laughs. Yeah! We is tigers too. (But we never advertise our strengths as that would allow our enemy to more easily find our weaknesses.) Be well! and thanks for the laughs.

There is nothing in Taoist philosophy that suggests that you do not have the right to protect yourself (and your loved ones). Yes, it is sad when we have to kill another living organism. But sometimes it is a necessity for survival. The only other alternative would have been to remove any trace of their nest and and scents they had laid down. Theis is dangerous business and there are very few people who know how to do this without causing damage/death to some of the bees. You did the right thing. Be well!

Hi Isk, Welcome! May you enjoy your time here. I'm not sure where I'm headed either but should our paths merge we can walk together for a while. Be well!

Hi Fruitzilla, Welcome! I laughed a little at your final comment. Hehehe. May you enjoy your time here. Be well!

Okay. Now you are speaking to the object and not in the abstract. Although I cannot retract what I said (and wouldn't want to because it was a truth at that moment in time) I will now agree with what you have just said. (Yes, I too sometimes say things for the sole purpose of riling your [and others'] thought processes.) (PS Chuang Tzu did this too so I don't feel I am being non-Tao when I do it.) Be well!

Hi Vajrahridaya, I think it is not necessary to repeat you entire Post #60 as there is basic agreement. However, I feel I should speak to a couple items in the list of qualifiers of 'inherent existence'. I speak from my own point of understanding only. I do not suggest that all Taoists hold this understanding. There is only one thing (which is a non-thing) that meets the criteria of items 2 thru 10 and that is Tao (which is indescribable). All else is subject to change, subject to birth and death, creation and destruction, etc., etc. The reason Tao qualifies in all criteria is that Tao is All - the beginning and the end, birth and death, creation and destruction, etc., etc. You and I are and everything we consist of are subject to change. No single component is impervious to change. Yes, everything that we are will remain etenal (no energy is ever lost) but no thing will remain unchanged. So, although we could discuss this subject as long as we are physically and mentally capable our discussions will change absolutely nothing because our true essence is no-thing (Tao), which, of course, cannot be discussed. Be well!

Ha! Ha! Ha! Be well! I do not disagree with this. However, I would like to suggest that we include the Taoist perspective in our discussion where possible as there are many members here who are trying to gain further understand of the Taoist belief systems. I realize that this is not always possible but where we can, Okay? Be well!

And I should add that I don't really know shit about this, just a gut feeling I suggest that our 'gut' feelings are most often the truest reflection of our Self. Hopefully these reflections are pure as well. Tao gives us life, Te nurtures that life. Yes, those with little virtue can achieve great accomplishments. They can become the wealthest people in the world - they can become champions of the world in there field. But I would ask what good are all the wealth and titles if one is not at peace with themself? The virtue of Tao is always available to us: Tao covers all. The virtue of man should follow the virtue of Tao. If we can merge the two (Te and virtue) we will find inner peace regardless of our accomplishments. In this state external success and failure hold no value. Be well!

Well, I'll be damned!!! Vajrahridaya actually speaks the Tao language. I am glad my faith in him held through!! Indeed. There is a time to do and there is a time to not-do. Happiness is like the Tao. You cannot seek it - it seeks you. When you are ready happiness will fill your body and mind. Be well!

Hi Marduk, Welcome! May you enjoy your time here. I would suggest reading Chuang Tzu completely through and then read a couple different translations of the Tao Te Ching after that. Many translations (in English) can be found here: http://terebess.hu/english/lexikon/c.html There are also some wonderful sources and links here at this site. Enjoy your journey. Be well!

Give yourself a hug Fox!! Yes, we Taoists are supposed to be tolerant. And there is a lot of compatability between Buddhism and Taoism. Maybe soon things will mellow out a bit concerning this subject and the various forums will flow much gentler. The question was valid therefore it was worth asking. The subject apparently was active in the thoughts of many of the members else there would not have been such a lrage response to it. This too shall pass! Be well!

It can be accomplished if there is only ond Buddhist. It cannot be done if there is more than one Buddhist because no Buddhist will ever agree with another Buddhist as to what a light bulb realy is. Be well!

Then please stop saying it. These words: Just, we don't inherently exist. So confusing and so, so unnecessary. No, I did not inherently want to exist. My mother and father had sex and stuff just happened after that and here I am. All so very simple and undeniable (for a normal person). So then, after telling someone that they exist we tell them that they matter. And we continue by saying that we can eliminate a lot of our suffering by dismantling, or at least reducing, our ego and clinging to the idea that we are supposed to be getting more out of life than life is giving us. And then we remind the person that they should rid themself of as many of the causes for suffering that they have. This is up to them only to define because only they can see the dark places of their mind. We should never tell them such and such because we could be only adding to the list of causes for their suffering. Actually, the process of ridding oneself of suffering is very simple. Figuring out how to do it without causing new and additional suffering is the trick. Be well!

Well, I must confess that I have little choice but to remain with my understanding that makes sense to me. We cannot look beyond the beginning because everything that existed prior to that became nothing just prior to the new beginning. So we can suppose all we want but we will never be able to prove any of it. And besides, what does it matter one way or the other? Does it effect my life in any way? I have two baskets that I throw all my new knowledge into. One is titled "This Matters" the other is titled "This Doesn't Matter". Whether or not there was a universe before the existence ot this one goes into the "This Doesn't Matter" basket. Like I said before, the more you take away from a thing in the process of understanding what it is made of the less you have of what it really was when it was whole and complete. Yes, it is true that if you take a logical statement and then take away words from the phrase that caused it to be logical you will no longer have a logical statement. If I point to the moon and say "Look at the moon" and you say "I can't see Mars" then the entire point has been lost. Be well! Why didn't you stop right there? You said everything that needed to be said to the point with those four simple words. But no, you had to continue on and totally confuse the issue and talk about galaxies and stars and all sorts of stuff that had absolutely nothing to do with the subject at hand, that is, how different people experience the identical thing differently. Well, I do get to understand some of the things you say so all is not lost. Be well!

Hi Steve, That is where I have my problem when talking with someone about a belief system or religion. The use of all the abstract words throws a veil over the subject making it even more difficult to understand. Yes. Earth has only one moon. But we each have our own personal experience of that moon. There is no 'absolute experience' that everyone is supposed to have else they are wrong. Life just doesn't work that way. I agree, the thought will never be the object. But I sure like the thought of the image of that beautiful woman I saw yesterday when I was out shopping. True, my thought and the image my mind created is not the woman - it is only the remembrence of the event now long past. Am I living in the past when I remember past events? I don't think so but then others would say I am in that lingering thoughts on the past will prevent us from living the moment to its fullest. Be well!

But sometimes they want your money too. Buyer beware! Be well!

And who do you blame if you are not understood? If you point the finger at me remember that there are three fingers pointing back at you. To The Tao though. Regarding what you said. I suggest that you look at how life bagan on this planet. It started with one single cell organism that had the ability of replicating itself. As it replicated an occasional mutation resulted. Thus began the evolution of life. If we consider the 'big bang' we see the same thing. So why is it hard for you to believe what was said concerning all things emerging from Tao? Sometimes your logic isn't very logical. Be well!

Hehehe. Now you are trying to psychoanalyze me? Step with caution. I have no fears. The last one that I held to for about fifty years is finally gone. The fear of spiders. No. It just irritates me when people suggest that things and people don't really exist. There are a lot of young people who are trying to find some meaning in life because what they have seems so empty and then they hear people saying that they really don't exist it blows them away and now they have even less reason to continue living. I was at one site where the (I'll use one of your words) karma was very negative. I tried to be optimistic and positive and got booed down. There are many who love to spread negativity. I'm not point to anyone here because it isn't that bad here. Actually, all things considered, I would say that the general attitude is quite good here even with the squabbles between followers of various belief systems. you should probably think twice about doubting quantum theory since its the closest science has ever come to embracing a view similar to Taoism. I didn't mean to suggest that I doubted it. It is just that I find no use for it in my life. You know, the useful/not-useful concept. Be well! Yeah. Even though we don't know how long our future is going to be I think it is always sound judgement to plan for a very long one that way you will be covered, just in case. And the actual knowledge one attains along the way ain't bad for us either. Lucky for us that there are archeologists who are able to find small bits and pieces of originals that weren't totally destroyed so that there is some for of accuracy when the whatever is being presented. Be well!

Good that you noted my tone. Hehehe. If no one benefits it is still good because I will have thrown the words to the winds and they are no longer something I am holdint to pretending that they are mine. So basically, even though it has not benefited anyone else it has benefited me as I have lost the baggage. Be well! (Good and not good are funny concepts.)

Hi Steve, Welcome! May you enjoy your time here. Jump right in and fire away. Be well!

Be aware! This one might grow on you No worry about that. Thanks for the warning though. Right now getting some Bluegrass music ready to put on CD. Be well!

Oh, picky, picky, picky. Hehehe. Yes, I am aware that there was a time when Arabic culture and science was king. But like you said ... I found out not too long ago the the Arabic numbering system is really not Arabic, it is Indian. The Europeans learned if from the Arabs and assumed the Arabs had devised it. But I really was referring to the Taoism part of my belief system. Be well! I agree completely. The exchange of ideas between peoples has been going on every since there have been people. Shampoo and bathing regularly are ideas the Europeans borrowed from the Indians. The European people were pretty dirty folks prior to learning those two ideas. And I will even agree that the Taoist religion was and still is heavily influenced by thoughts outside of China. Be well!