medic

Judge not, lest ye be judged. And yet, in almost the same breath he says, Give not that which is holy unto the dogs, neither cast ye your pearls before swine, lest they trample them under their feet, and turn again and rend you. Peace

I'm a history student, so it makes sense for me to trust the people who knew Jesus to write about him and for the people who knew the people who knew Jesus to read about him. And the people who knew the people who knew the people who knew Jesus to Canonize the books to avoid confusion with writings by people who don't know what they are talking about. At this point a faith is already established, so if the books that got in aren't always written by who they said they were they ARE at least Orthodox teaching. And that's what is important. What is illogical about this?<edit question mark> Either way we don't have to debate that, but where exactly do you get your authority to say Jesus was a realized Taoist who meant something else besides being the prophesied Jewish Messiah? Psalm 22 depicts the crucifixion (notice verse 16 especially) and was written 500-800 years before the practice was ever invented. If you don't examine Jesus as a Jew, you lose the concept of the True God, not my concept. Christ's concept. I think I understand the Tao as well. We're apart of the all, so you can forget believing that you are an individual, forget thinking you have free will, and forget thinking that moral as well as physical good and evil exist. Realization at last?

Carson, I love you, in order to follow Christ I attempt to obey his commands. Matthew 5-7 lays down the foundation of that. (But if you're reading the KJV disregard the point about "vain repetitions" in prayer because that is an aweful translation of the greek). And I'm open to Biblical scholarship, textual critisism, but the Holy Tradition of the church fathers patches that hole. I understand that only 6 or 7 of the epistles attributed to Paul are actually guarunteed to be his. But if the fathers of the church recognized them as canonical then they are. That's tradition you can't break. The Eastern Orthodox church actually uses the entire Septuagint for the old testament, which includes books the Catholics and the Protestants don't. I don't need to argue about it because there is no argument. We could even get into the scientific realm, but my reasons there for trusting scripture are well thought out. I love you, Carson, but YOU have decided to read historical texts without textual criticism, Christ never meant what you say he did. He was a Jew, believed in the Jewish God, and claimed to be the Messiah.

I don't believe you understand 'my concept' of God. The whole reason I'm here is because the Tao reminds me of Christ. Also, maybe I am enlightened, I hadn't considered that The writers of the Bible had a specific reason to write a specific phrase carrying a specific message to a specific person/group of people. Don't take it out of context to make it say what you wish. You're only fooling yourself. Jesus never says, anyway is fine and up and down, inside and out are the same things only different. He said, "follow me."

Well about the contradiction thing, I was responding to erdweir. He said I contradicted myself because I wanted to not be prejudicial yet be discerning. Using judge for both cases he said that produced a contradiction, being that they can not both be true at the same time. Like saying I want to be happy and not happy at the same time. However, the two do not produce a contradiction. One can be discerning while not being prejudiced. Anyways, according to Christ, we are all made/born in the perfect image of God. So we are all already there, you're already enlightened, you're already at the finish line. But if you don't accept him as God, you deny who God really is. If you don't know him, you'll miss out on the relationship with him. So tell me, how can you be trusted? How can I trust a single thing you say? I'm certainly not doing the best job following Christ as I could, but I come in the name of Christ, not in my own name. So if I fail, I fail, but if I succeed, it was because of Christ. All Good comes from God. And "All things work together for good for those who love the Lord." Romans 8:28 I guess, what's the point? If you don't believe in evil and you don't believe in God (at least a God that believes in good and evil). What's all the work for? Are all your spiritual practices in vain? I can all but guarantee that no one, not a soul that posts on this board is going to reach Moksha/Freedom/Sainthood before they die. So what's the point?

There is a difference between judgement as prejudice and judgement as discernment. These two are not in contradiction with each other. Also, the individual things I "definitely don't agree with" are things I understand. I was referring to some posts I've seen about masturbating to release chi, you may be accomplishing spiritual growth with that, but it is not in the right direction. Growth ≠ Maturity

Victory, Heaven, am I coming or going There's no place like home

erdweir, I appreciate your input, though I highly doubt I'll be taking up any taoist practices. I have practiced meditation and mantras for a few years now. I read the Tao Te Ching and thought it would be a good community of people to talk to, because the Way described in the Tao seems to echo the ideas of letting go of the ego. I personally work on this because when I don't want to let myself get in the way of what God can do through me. In essence, I want to step down from the throne of my life and offer it to God. I still want to talk about that, maybe it's more Buddhist than Taoist, I don't necassacerily want to destroy all my concepts of reality as much as I want to be free from my desire and my personal judgments. Because I am find a lot of stuff on here that I definitely don't agree with. And although I believe you don't have to be a Christian to follow Christ, I also believe that there are some practices people are doing that can not be helping to accomplish anything good.

ok, silence no talking, or silence of the mind?

Practice what? All I know how to do is follow Christ. Everything else is too complicated. Practice what? Breathing? Staring at the sun? emptying my mind? filling it with prayer? collecting chi? throwing chi? all these things, all these practices, empty your mind, get rid of the ego. All this stuff is complicated and confusing and when it comes down to it all I know I can really do is fall down trying and sit at the feet of Christ who tells me "Love God, Love others" and everything makes sense again, he's like a rock. oh, and I love you too, Carson

My experience with Christ is real, all I can put into words are things that other people have said because he is eternal and unchanging, so I can see how it would sound like I'm just repeating things I've heard before. My relationship with God is not something I can express to you or anyone else. But it is real. There are many paths, I believe that, I also believe that the Perfect King can only be perfect if you choose to follow Him, otherwise He could not make you happy. That doesn't make him any less the Perfect King. Savior of the poor in spirit, those who mourn, the gentle, those who hunger and thirst for righteousness, the merciful, the pure in heart, the peacemakers, those who are persecuted for righteousness, FROM those who are rich, full, and laughing. The wise student hears of the Tao and practices it diligently. The average student hears of the Tao and gives it thought now and again. The foolish student hears of the Tao and laughs aloud. If there were no laughter, the Tao would not be what it is. The Christ is the Tao, is bigger than heaven and earth and yet balances heaven and earth and brings peace to those who seek him.

If it works, be careful what you wish for.

You're seeing the material world as a complete illusion, but it's the attachment that is the illusion, the material world exists. If the material world doesn't exist, we can all be The Christ, but it does so we can be one in essence with Christ, but distinctly personal in our experience. Familiar with the Hare Krshna movement? I wonder.... Christ, comes from Christos, which comes from Messiah, which means 'anointed one'. I know these are all words and have limited definitions, but the anointed one can not be more than one. He was the only one who could have done what he did, it was more than a state of being, it was a mission. Christ Jesus, the savior. I understand that attaining Christ-consciencenous/detachment from ego/oneness with the Spirit is the goal, and that if one were to attain that, they may become one with Father/Son/Spirit, but being one with them doesn't mean you went on the mission and unlocked the prison gates for generations from now until the ages of ages. I accept the teachings of non-christians, I sift them for truth, I came here because the Tao Te Ching is full of truth, little did I know that "taoism" is just as diluted as christianity. This is me, and the way I understand it.

Personally, I believe that the most beneficial thing religion brings is community. The easiest way to advance spiritually is by the guidance of someone who has lived longer than you and been devoted to the Way. If I may put forward a wonderful option, worship Christ. Who's a better example? You want to be spiritually mature? Have the humility of a child, you want to advance spiritually? Love God, Love Others. If you lose your life, you gain it, sounds like the Tao to me. It's not about heaven either, I totally get the death cult thing, I've heard it before. Jesus preached the Kingdom of Heaven, and that it was here on earth already, and that he would come again and it would be revealed. So his basic message was live for the eternal, now. I love you, and good luck!!

Pardon the pun, but....go with the flow. This is the way, you're body is only one of ten thousand things, if she can't handle things your body does than she is going to leave, and I would let her. But don't chase her away. She probably won't care or will want to be helpful when the time comes that you are that comfortable with her. Real love is just that.