forestofemptiness
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Everything posted by forestofemptiness
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Relative truth is samvrti, which means obscuring or concealed. In other words, conventional truth is fictional, like you say. Lama Tony Duff calls it "fictional truth." It isn't really true, but it appears true to those who see it, like the rope that is mistaken for the snake.
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The whole division of mind is interesting. In Vedanta, you have the five koshas: physical, pranic, lower mental, higher mental, and bliss. The lower mental, or manomaya kosha, is usually glossed as either the bare sensory mind or memory. The higher mental, or vijnanamaya kosha involves division and mental categories. Citta or cit can refer to mind-stuff as in the Yoga Sutras (as in thoughts are whirlpools or vrittis in citta), or as the highest form of awareness as in the sat-cit-ananda formulation of Advaita. Intelligence would be buddhi, which is the root from which Buddha comes. The early suttas more or less lump citta, manas, and vijnana together into a mass and often use the terms as synonyms, but the divisions are still found at least in the Vissudhimagga literature. In the Vissudhimagga literature, there is a parable about a child, an adult, and a money changer seeing a pile of gold. The child just sees it as it is, akin to perception (samjna); the adult overlays concepts on it, akin to consciousness (vijnana), while the money changer, as an expert, sees its actual value, representing prajna.
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I like to see how everyone gets something different out of this quote. What strikes me first is that nirvana is not something to be built or created. It is not a matter of "adding to" but "subtracting from".
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There may be a dichotomy in some forms of Buddhism, but this is hardly universal among the non-dual Mahayana forms. As for the dream, I would forward that the dream is the Buddhist metaphor par excellence. In fact, Buddhism has developed dream yoga to further explore the dream like nature of reality.
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Dzogchen, superior to Tantra. Really...?
forestofemptiness replied to Wells's topic in Buddhist Discussion
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Dzogchen, superior to Tantra. Really...?
forestofemptiness replied to Wells's topic in Buddhist Discussion
According to who? -
I actually think that, to a large extent, the ancients made it too difficult. They make it seem like it is so hard. A lot of the old school yogis weren't professional monastics, they were ordinary lay people with families and jobs. Consider the traditional lines: trans Ken McLeod
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Dzogchen, superior to Tantra. Really...?
forestofemptiness replied to Wells's topic in Buddhist Discussion
Well, he does tell the cautionary tale of the man who got sick and died while doing Ngondro... : -
Dzogchen, superior to Tantra. Really...?
forestofemptiness replied to Wells's topic in Buddhist Discussion
Well, what do you mean by passes on? I thought you meant passes on like "passes by", but now I look it again, it can also mean "dies." So is the question what is the use of accumulating merit and developing capacity if one dies without recognizing one's true nature? Or ???? -
Dzogchen, superior to Tantra. Really...?
forestofemptiness replied to Wells's topic in Buddhist Discussion
Per the Crystal and the Way of Light: -
Dzogchen, superior to Tantra. Really...?
forestofemptiness replied to Wells's topic in Buddhist Discussion
I should also point out that I haven't heard NN or any Dzogchen teacher say that Ngondro is worthless or anything other than beneficial. For example, eating healthy and working out is not essential, but it can make you strong and able. Ngondro is used in certain ways in his teaching. It really depends on the student, the student's needs and many other things. Different teachers have different approaches, and I don't see anything wrong with that. -
Dzogchen, superior to Tantra. Really...?
forestofemptiness replied to Wells's topic in Buddhist Discussion
I would also point out that Tulku Urgyen Rinpoche and his sons gave/give Direct Introduction without first requiring Ngondro, as does Lama Surya Das. -
Dzogchen, superior to Tantra. Really...?
forestofemptiness replied to Wells's topic in Buddhist Discussion
Well, NN certainly didn't invent the 3 statements of Garab Dorje. -
Dzogchen, superior to Tantra. Really...?
forestofemptiness replied to Wells's topic in Buddhist Discussion
Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche is going with Garab Dorje. YMMV. -
Dzogchen, superior to Tantra. Really...?
forestofemptiness replied to Wells's topic in Buddhist Discussion
Namkhai Norbu Rinpoche doesn't follow the same pattern as other teachers with Ngondro. In the Crystal and the Way of Light, p.116-118, he discusses his view in depth. He writes: -
I think he's comparing them from the POV of concepts rather than non-conceptual experience. Once we get into concepts, we're already at least two steps down from the ultimate on the 5 kosha model. In addition, I find that Hindus and Buddhists are generally terrible at actually understanding what the other is saying.
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Gendun Chophel, the Gelug "Mad Monk" says that no one is really a nihilist: trans Tyler Dewar (emphasis added)
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Dzogchen, superior to Tantra. Really...?
forestofemptiness replied to Wells's topic in Buddhist Discussion
The Bonpos are the ones putting all this information in the public, but they are also the ones who put warnings on all their practice manuals along the lines of "don't try this yourself" and "you need to connect to an authentic lineage to practice this." Here on the Taobums, people like to obtain and even post restricted materials --- in effect saying listen to what this teacher says about Dzogchen, but don't respect what this teacher says about keeping the teaching materials secret. In other words, we turn to a teaching for guidance and rather than listen and apply the teaching, we pick and choose according to what we already think we know. The issue is that if we are ignorant, how do we have the wisdom to pick and choose? I will bet an obscene amount of money that if anyone bothered to ask Lopon Tenzin Namdak his opinion, he would say you shouldn't learn from books. In fact, most of his materials are restricted. The reason for this, according the Garland of Views, is because people are just going to get it wrong. Connecting with a lineage is no guarantee, but at least it means you're willing to receive feedback from others to make sure you're on the right track. -
Dzogchen, superior to Tantra. Really...?
forestofemptiness replied to Wells's topic in Buddhist Discussion
Keep in mind that Dzogchen as practiced live and Dzogchen as discussed on the Taobums are not necessarily the same thing. -
I don't know about that. I live in a pretty Buddhist town and I definitely get the feeling that dharma practice is in decline, having been more popular with the Boomers than the younger generations. Some of the larger Zen centers have already sold some of their holdings due to lack of support. I would expect the popularity to decline as secular meditation becomes more popular (like what happened with yoga). However, I don't think this is necessarily a bad thing--- there is also a strong tradition of dharma being practiced by the few, with occasional surges in popularity.
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Evidently, this is from Jean Klein's the book of listening. Jean Klein was an Advaita master.
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It is probably our definition of renunciation, purification, transformation, and self-liberation that are different, and that's ok. The point is, there's no one answer for all of Buddhism.
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I mean in the sense that there are the paths of renunciation, purification, transformation, and self-liberation.
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Not necessarily.
