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YM How about some more supporting info? Why would this talisman be useless? Does it say "Yankee Dog come to Huashan and go home with less $ not more wisdom!" If it IS useless what do you suppose the writer had in mind? Not trying to be argumentative but when you make statements like this without supporting information it doesn't seem like you are being helpful or have interest to clarify, but just to say " I know something and you are ignorant!" So...anything to add? I for one would really appreciate your helping to build up our knowledge rather than just sit on the sidelines and tell us when we are ignorant without attempting to shine any light. Craig

Lectinology? Well at least some links...perhaps Craig

Dear Mak Tin Si I suggest you read the following which you can find in it's entirety at the home page of Thetaobums. Welcome to The Tao Bums discussion forum. This is an informal community created to discuss Tao (Dao), particularly as is expressed in key philosophical texts such as the well known Tao Te Ching of Lao Tzu, health and cultivation practices such as Tai Chi and Qigong (Chi Kung), nonconceptual meditation approaches such as Zuowang (sitting and forgetting), and also the historical developments of Taoism as the bona fide Chinese religion of Taoist priests and shamans. Don't let this intro scare you though. Most of us are syncretic at heart. Discussion is encouraged to wander eclectically across a wide range of spiritual thought and practice, whether Buddhist, Yogic, Tantric, Judaic, Advaitic, Christian, Islamic, Shamanic, Occult, "New Age", Integral... As long as you are up for a good time, you're welcome to discuss your path. Though we can get rowdy at times, we all do our best to keep it civil. We are, almost as a rule, rather strange, but we have good hearts and even better senses of humor. I suggest that you seek to refine your understanding of the English language as it is expressed on a discussion forum. Five Element Tao's initial comment in this thread was in my view essentially friendly. As a friend he pointed out - I think correctly - that the attitude you are portraying in print may cause some to be offended or at least not feel a sense of openness and invitation from you. Just as you point out that anyone has the option to ignore your posts, so to do you have the option to ignore his posts. Your response to him seems to be that you take serious offense with what he said - again this is my interpretation from what you have written. You also have the option of ignoring such posts. You have NO OWNERSHIP of a thread just because you started it. Sorry but that is how discussion forae work. Five Element Tao did in my view go out of his way to complement you and try to temper his constructive criticism with his complementary language. Your response to him says a lot more about you than about anyone's "Fantasy Taoism". You come across as knowing a lot, but also as having a RIGID and FUNDAMENTALIST attitude. If your aim is to share what you know you should understand that part of this sharing is showing by example in your approach to others in the written word whether you have the virtues of patience and compassion among others. If someone tells you they think you may offend perhaps you would do better to try to understand why. Your approach seems to be utter rejection of this as a possibility. Again I urge you to strive for more familiarity with Written English and the style of discussion forae. It is easy to be misunderstood, especially when it comes to "Tone" or "attitude"of your text. Respectfully submitted with the intention of promoting peaceful dialog. Craig

I highly recommend L-Theanine. You can look up the patent holder "Suntheanine" online for their information. Very good for relaxing. Craig

It is my opinion that you can help someone feel his own Qi quite easily. I must say this is an opinion because I haven't done a lot of teaching, but my experience leads me to strongly believe this. I could be wrong. Some people are stubborn in this respect. Anybody remember "Buddy"? Cat I would not go so far as to say visualization is a foundation practice. IN the example of the question posed "is Qi something you can feel" I would hasten to add that it isn't at all necessary to visualize in order to feel Qi. For that I think structure and breath are much more important. My teacher emphasizes the three layer approach. Structure Breath Visualization This corresponds to Jing Qi Shen They are all important in Qigong, Taiji, Neigong or whatever you are calling the practice you are doing. My teacher says that without all three you don't have Qigong. It is possible to Overemphasize visualization. In my opinion Healing Tao system does Overemphasize this aspect. It is also my opinion that it is easy to fall into the trap of ONLY visualization, and not to explore/refine structure and breath. Craig

same as it ever was.....same as it ever was.

You would do well not to report as fact something you didn't check. Here IS a fact. In September of this year the Obama campaign raised $1,500,00.00 dollars. He raised this in large part from 650,000 FIRST TIME donors. Average donation $83 dollars per!! Yeah, that sounds like a corporate consipiracy to me alrighty So his funds came in a very major way, from individual donors. It is possible to counteract the power of corporate lobbyist by having an ACTIVE electorate who are willing and ready to participate, take action and contribute. There is no democracy WITHOUT PARTICIPATION. Refusing to vote in this election is mind boggling to me. Everyone has their own way, but come on! If I were in charge it would be MANDATORY to vote in every election. For a very long time it has been the goal of certain groups to encourage people NOT to vote, not to participate. They count on apathy and cynicism. Not to mention deliberate dumbing down of the populace and propaganda. There is still MASSIVE disenfranchisement going on in the US. The democrats won this time because they were able to massively overcome these efforts by sheer numbers. I was literally prepared to leave this country if the fascists won another one. We have a lot of work to do. It is not over. America has a lot to answer for. Not the least of which is the willingness to look the other way when atrocities are committed around the globe in our name. If you are an American you damn well had better stay active and encourage everyone you know to wake up. The corporatist (a mild euphemism for FASCIST) wing of the Democratic party is strong too. Do you think they wanted Obama to win this? I suspect not, but I could be wrong. Corporations have always funded BOTH parties. The funds ebb and flow from side to side, but predominantly flow to right wing republicans. To damn democrats or Obama for taking corporate funds is to not see the whole picture. At least we have hope now, where before there was nothing but black humor to turn to. END RANT. And I thought I would never get into politics here. OH well. I could promise never to do so again...but I can't. Craig

I am grateful you wrote this. Deep thanks. Craig

I once asked my Qigong master about this subject. "Master Wu, I have heard that there are various ways one can prepare oneself for dealing with sick energy. Isn't it true that we need to protect ourselves from sick qi somehow?" His simple answer was "As soon as you think like that your spirit is already lost." This was a profound statement and made very emphatically as if to say "get that garbage out of your head". In light of this discussion its seems extraordinarily simple, if not simple minded. In my experience and in my taoist education there are at least two schools of thought on this subject. I will try to explain to the best of my understanding what was explained to me. This was explained clearly by Master Wu. In the Alchemical schools there is a prohibition against healing until one has developed for many years (12 or more) This is in order to develop ones internal Qi force so as not to become depleted. In the Shamanic schools one can do energy healing very soon. One uses external Qi to do healing. It is a channelling of the life force which avoids use of your own internal Qi. I realize the above is a gross oversimplification, but it resonates with me. I have practiced Qi healing and had it practiced on me by fellow students. I have not wandered around in cancer wards to cite an extreme example, so I cannot attest to how such might affect me. It seems to me however that if you go around with the belief that as a Qigong practitioner that you will be more permeable to negative influence, then you definitely will be. I can relate to the idea of avoiding the vibes of big crowds and how draining that can be. I remember in my early twenties sometimes getting into a state where it was almost painful to be around a lot of people. Choosing your associations wisely is also very important (does online association count ) Can these be overcome? My teacher's response to this would probably be only "more cultivation". Craig

Well I have to say you seem to be getting nearer to saying what you want to say. May I invite you to say it in the clearest terms possible? What exactly is Max really doing with his transmissions according to your perceptions? What is he using it for? If you are going to say something this extreme you might as well be out with your full view. What is the sinister plan? If it is very serious and you are aware of the true nature of it then perhaps you should share your understanding with all of us. respectfully tendered inquiry. Craig

Spectrum Did you miss the seminar? Or did I miss you? Strangely enough there were only 4 people in attendance who live in the Portland area. Everyone else travelled from Northern California, other places in the NW or further afield. I won't be back in PDX til 27th. I have some local peoples contact info and maybe we will arrange a get together at some point, but nothing planned as yet. Craig

YM What is your knowledge of maoshan which does not derive from books? You said "If we speak of Maoshan Shangqing Pai then there are sub-sects but they all have the same structure." You write this as if it were irrefutable fact. Please support this statement. You claim to have a Daoist view point. Are you a Daoist, according to your own definitions? which sect? Please support this statement. What is your education. i.e. who are your teachers and what lineage do they derive from? Why do you interpret what you have read about Kunlun practice as deviant? How do you define this? Please support this statement. It is all well and good to offer your point of view, but you are quite short on providing answers to what informs your point of view. You seem to desire to get your opinion across on this subject and I and others wish you would provide more information to attempt to support your view point and credibility. Please be direct with your answers. thanks Craig

Hello my friend. Craig here. The guy wearing the colorful headband :-), in case your memory is already failing you. Thank you very much for sharing your experience. I have been busy travelling and so have only just seen your input here. Thanks very much for that. To everyone else, I was also at the same Portland seminar attended by 5ETao. I can support everthing he said about Max's reception. It was very nice to observe, and Max definitely did share some things with him which to me as an outside observer seemed exactly like a senior sharing with a junior some details of a form they had both studied. I was able to watch Max demonstrate on 5ETao some movements and applications which were very interesting. Just some basic stuff, but Max was showing some subtle refinements therein. As I've said before I have seen only one other "white guy" move like Max does, and it was really fun to watch him show some basic martial arts technique (not basic at all really if you include what is going on internally). It seemed very clear to me that they had studied the same material and were comparing notes. I think I saw 5ETao have at least one or two "aha" moments while observing some things Max showed. My input for now, not much time for forums today. 5ETao - have you signed up on Kunlun forum? check it out. at least you won't have to defend your positions there, but it isn't as active as here. Be well. watch out for the bubba's back home. Craig

I don't disagree with your analysis of the value of translation and intrepretation and distinguishing between the two. I guess you would favor an approach similar to that found in I-Ching books. Give original text in traditional characters. Give the most literal translation possible and then give commentary (e.g. the ten wings) to expand upon the literal translation. Perhaps SYD's interpretation can be viewed as commentary? Anyway, all I can say is that the way SYD wrote has resonance with me and is in accord with language and information I have received from my teacher. Craig

good luck. Hopefully they turn over stock quickly. The main problem with cut bulk herbs is one of freshness. If it has a nice herby/earthy smell then chances are good it will be good quality. I would still recommend getting some nice organic vodka and making your own tincture from the bulk. I don't thnk a hot water decoction will be nearly as effective. Just chewing on the roots might work, but seems a bit tedious. But hey, for this price you can afford to experiment. Craig Here is the brand I first used around 20 years ago. I always thought this was the most simple and effective form: http://www.sunchlorellausa.com/products/sg-1.htm

Thanks for stepping back in. You have come back with better feedback as I had hoped you would. YM, I know you have quality input to give, so I was dissappointed to see merely an unsupported criticism in your earlier post. Your further input solidifies my impression that you do have something valuable to add. Seeing the two interpretations side by side is valuable to all. It is interesting to note that SYD's rendering to me immediately elicits meaning. The very literal translation while it may translate the chinese characters literally does not have much meaning to the native english speaker. This is the quandary of translation. You put forward a translation which may elicit meaning to you in English, but your actual context is non english derived. SYD puts forward his interpretation with some knowledge of what the literal translation is, but attempts to convey meaning to the English speaker who has only english context from which to attach meaning. Neither translation or interpretation would be of much use to anyone without further context provided by education in the deeper meaning of practice/cultivation. In my view SYD's interpretation is a useful one. I have context from a teacher educated in Longmenpai from the same lineage as SYD's. My teacher's translations/interpretations from Chinese to English bear more resemblance to SYD's than to yours, and he is a native Chinese speaker. The difficulty remains to create a translation that conveys the meaning. Words like cultivation convey agriculture to most English speakers, yet to those of us whose teachers use such terms they convey a whole other set of concepts and say a lot more than -practice- for example. As SYD says - keep it coming. SYD - Keep up the good work and accept my apology for rushing unneeded to your defense. Craig

Do you have access to the whole dried root? I have never acquired it in this way. Take the root powder in it's simplest form if possible. My attitude is why complicate matters. The powder works well. Craig

Well...trying to look at the cup half full, at least Procurator suggested something. Maybe SYD can work with that. I don't get the impression that Procurator really wants to help in a direct way. Maybe indirectly he can still help with the translation process. Still, it IS annoying. Craig PS - Lets see if Pro really put me on his ignore list

So easy to criticize. Easier for you than most of us to help SYD improve on his translation. Perhaps you could offer your suggestions directly to SYD? To my mind these words point to some truth. Perhaps it needs polishing but this mirror does reflect...something. Care to use some window cleaner yourself. Or do you prefer to sit on high on snicker at our meager efforts? Craig PS - IMHO. The H stands for Humble.

I won't go into the whole subject about whether to follow east or west or whether to self medicate or only seek professional advice. What I do want to comment on is Siberian "Ginseng". This is one my favorite supplements. It is NOT a true Ginseng. It IS a true ADAPTOGEN. Properly called by it's botanical name Eleutherococcus senticosus, or Eleuthero for short. Old name in Chinese is Ciewujia (sorry, that's my closest approximation). This is a Tonic herb - not to be confused with the more specific term Tonifying from Chinese medicine. Bum Grasshopper said "I would like to take it for general health and longevity" IN my opinion Siberian Ginseng would be the most appropriate for regular use for general health. Adaptogen is a term first used in Russian research on Eleuthero. An Adaptogen helps the body deal with a variety of conditions. For example siberian ginseng has been shown to help reduce high blood pressure as well as to raise low blood pressure. It helps to deal with heat as well as cold, meaning in the environment, not internal conditions. In the past Eleuthero has been a major component of the training regimen for Olympic athletes as well as cosmonauts. there is a lot of information out there on it's benefits if you do a little research. One caveat. I recommend buying ONLY pure eleuthero powder in capsule or tablet form or simple liquid tincture extract. The effort to standardize the active constituents of herbs has been an utter failure with Eleuthero. The so called "standardized" extracts available in the market place are 99% garbage in my experience. Only the Germans and the Russians had successfully made a standardized extract which retained the quality and performance enhancing characteristics of the pure herb but those products aren't really available to the general public. 99.9% of what is available is of Chinese manufacture and it is hardly effective at all. I have eaten large quantities of the straight extract powder and felt almost nothing compared to taking just straight herb powder. I know about this herb because I have dealt with the manufacturers and had personal contact with someone connected to the original russian research on the herb. I have seen and tasted/tried the crap from many chinese manufacturers and have seen and tried the good stuff from Russia. IN summary, if you wanted to add an herb to your diet for general health I don't think you can go wrong with this one. In most cases I think even your TCM doctor would find no negative or unbalancing effect from the use of this one. Real Ginseng is great too, but used regularly it will definitely not be balancing. Craig

Mike I think your contrubution has great merit. I also think that Buddy who you may or may not know from earlier Taobums history was actually on to something when he discounted the importance of Chi/Qi. Although I disagree about the approach of dismissing Qi altogether, your post has enabled me to see more clearly that it is easy to get caught up in the concept of Qi, in the perception of Qi and allow it to be a distraction from accomplishing the more prosaic achievements of structure and function of the human organism through rigorous physical training. Such achievements can be viewed from the outside as mystical accomplishments, when in actuality they are merely advanced physical accomplishements. to paraphrase Heinlein or was it Asimov?...any sufficiently advanced science will appear as magic to the ignorant. Make no mistake, Qi is present here. It is present everywhere and in every endeavor. But before you even need to look to Qi to explain phenemenon there is first the physical layer. This layer can account for much more than is ordinarily given credit. I think this is one of the important points MJ makes in his essay. Too much internet. Not enough physical practice of late. Ciao for now. Craig

Talk about weaseling. Come on. RESPECT. We all know what it is. You clearly have enough background to know that it takes nothing away from you to give respect. Are you grown up enough to act respectfully towards all, regardless of your opinion of them? Grow up. Craig

YM Your suggested experiment is an interesting one. In response to your "no mastery" claim I must point out the vast majority here claim no mastery and yet we discuss our experiences quite frequently. Therefore your answer really seems like a dodge to me. Perhaps you have your own reasons for not sharing of yourself and carrying on with your clear hit pieces against what are in your view erroneous historical and cultural claims. In fact, although you have put forth an interesting article by a scholar who has a very pointed opinions about cultural imperialism and has painted the whole interest in the Tao and even in Zen in the west as another example of this type of thought, you have not demonstrated to me at least how this invalidates anything that you are objecting to. In particular you are objecting to Max Christensen wearing "Taoist" garb (I almost hesitate to use the term Taoist for fear you would castigate me) and using the term Kunlun, and/or Maoshan. You are using a scholarly approach to attack Max by picking bits and pieces which you have garnered from various available media. I believe TaoMeow has a great deal more credibility talking about Maoshan on the basis of her significant experience. If you did some research into her older posts you would find allusions and indications about that experience and knowledge garnered from real world experience which grant her the credibility to talk about Maoshan from experience. Your attempt to denigrate what she knows of Maoshan from being taught compared to what you know from literature and pop culture is in this light silly. Max uses the term Kunlun to refer to the mountain and to refer to the mountain top of the body. In my view he uses the term loosely. Obviously anyone using language imprecisely is objectionable to you. Apparently you have objected to the use of Maoshan in connection with his lineage. I believe this has been refuted by his actual stated lineage connections. You object to his wearing Taoist garb. I don't know what would grant him the right to wear such garb, but I don't know with any certainty that he hasn't been given that right. Do you? Yes, experience is a tricky thing. It is all of the mind. I think you and the article cited have proven clearly that scholarly works and less than scholarly works are also Of the Mind. The article points out the Tao te Jing is the result of a reworking of the original as an act of marketing in the 3rd century (from memory, date cited may be off) which was designed to have a broad appeal. Is there no more fine example of a construct of the mind than this? does that mean that all benefit garnered by the multitudes who have read it are worthless? but enough jousting. Just address my earlier request. Be straight. Make a clear point. If you think something is not correct you should say in what way. How is it harmful. I really want to know. You think Kunlun is dangerous? Who cares about cultural or historical claims really. If that is all you can attack I think you are done. If you have more pointed critiques to make I invite you to make them. I have a long history of experiences within the umbrella term of "taoist practices". I have taken a seminar with Max but I remain open minded in all ways. Again I invite you to be direct. Get it off your chest. You'll feel better respectfully Craig

YM isn't it time you really expressed yourself instead of beating around the bush? You are seeking to attack a certain group, and certain individual(s) who have been prevalent on this forum. In the words of Buddy - stop being passive aggressive. Just state your truth in your voice. You think someone is a fraud, step up and say so. This overly intellectuallized discussion which leaves out the idea of actual practice which leads to actual EXPERIENCE is unnecessary and in my view self indulgent. I would reiterate TM's question to you earlier. What is your experience? What practice do you do, and what can you say about that? This is the true nature and purpose of a forum in my view. Although your oblique critiques have lead to some really priceless responses in my opinion, especially from Taomeow and now more recently from MJBecker and SongYD. Thanks for that at least. Craig

Hey yeah, I was just messin with you about the Karate. Nothing wrong with it. I did TKD for decades, but my interest waned and now pursuing Qigong and Taiji and recently attended Kunlun seminar (that's what I meant by newbie). I'm a soccer dad myself and recently mentioned on Kunlun forum how difficult to do Kunlun practice with kids in the house. Things are a bit more, how shall I say, DRAMATIC, after receiving the transmission. At least that's how it is with me. The book didn't even inspire me to practice. Not until attending at the seminar did things get interesting. But worthwhile to get in order to learn more to find out if you want to go further. Craig