Thunder_Gooch

Why have you decided specifically on neigong? What kind of foundation have you cultivated up to this point?

 

I'm not asking to dissuade you, but there's a lot of confusion about neigong, and if what you're really interested in liberation, there may be other systems that are more accessible.

I haven't seen any other systems validated. Perhaps as time goes on, technology expands, and humans grow more interconnected and more ancient knowledge is made available other systems will be validated. At the moment I'm fine where I am. Thanks.

Even though India doesn't really have any advanced masters in the area's I am specifically looking for, you guys may be right about the culture.

Ha. I used to believe like you. I guess I won't be able to change your mind at this time. But I'll say this anyway, because not to say it is to lie to myself. You must have conflicting ideas about reality. On one hand, you seem to agree that all appearances are illusory, but on the other hand you vest the people within your field of experience with real essence/substance. In reality, the appearance of people is empty like a horn on a rabbit or like turtle fur. But don't take my word for it. In order to have an authentic realization of this fact, you must see it for yourself through contemplation and through performing magic deeds that involve other people, and then you'll be convinced in an authentic manner. So, it stands to reason, that the system that you rail against, is also illusory.

 

You think your brain has chemicals in it? And you think that those chemicals affect how you think? This might also imply that you fail to see the role of mind. I can't tell this for sure, but it does seem like you see the mind in the role of a victim rather than in the role of a Lord. Do you believe the brain makes the mind, or do you believe the mind makes the brain, and everything else? The way you talk about the brain indicates to me large gaps in your contemplative practice. It seems to me you are over-meditating and under-contemplating, and that's why rash desires grab hold of you so easily.

A gold chain is still a chain. A favored slave is still a slave.

 

You have no role to play here. You MAY play a role here if you like. But you are not obliged to play any particular role.

No you don't. You're taking this onerous task upon yourself of your own free will. Why? It's due to delusion as the primary cause. Delusion produces fear and you react to fear by 100% compliance.

 

It doesn't occur to you that this world is a flexible appearance. You can live with 70% or 80% compliance and you'll breathe much easier. You don't have to rebel against everything. You don't have to be brutally honest about everything all at once. Let the process be gradual. Do it gently, kindly, one step at a time. Be kind to yourself. Be kind to your innermost light. Be kind to others in a way that doesn't hurt your innermost light.

 

You produce an idea of removing yourself from mundanity because you don't see it as something you can mold. You see it as something that's inflexible and set in stone. The world is funny. The world tends to confirm what you believe. Believe the world is made of stone, and it's like wearing stone shoes. Killer on the feet and legs, heavy, cold. Believe the world is malleable, and it's like wearing leather shoes. They might rub you a little bit before you break them in, but once you wear them for a little while, you cannot feel them on your feet. They are light and feel natural. This makes a huge difference in real life.

 

People, conventions, systems, all this is your mind's ornamentation. It is your rightful possession. You CAN play with it. Not because I allow it. Not because it's written somewhere, but because you CAN. In other words, the ability is inherently yours to exercise. You choose not to exercise it due to strong obscuring delusions. More meditation is not the solution to your ignorant mind. Meditation is good when you have some insight. Your insight is in need of much work.

Yea, I used to believe that too. You are a victim in your own mind. You feel oppressed by the world. It's constraining, suffocating and heavy and you want out. And that's good! That's better than being asleep at the wheel thinking that shit has the taste of chocolate. At least you see shit as shit. That's progress. Don't give up.

 

Now, are you hung up on neikung? I think it's much easier to get into a Buddhist monastery than it is to find a place to practice neikung. An option that exists is to enter any monastery at all, Buddhist or otherwise, and practice neikung in secret. There are also some non-denominational retreat locations in USA. Look up Richard Rose and see where the path leads you. Those people might have non-denominational retreat locations available and if any of them keep Richard Rose's spirit, they're as hard core as you want to be. Look up Tom Brown's teacher. His only possession was a knife and he traveled all over both Americas. You can do that too you know? He was what we might now call a "survivalist". If I understand correctly, Tom Brown still teaches today. If you want to be really hard core on your own, you can take those classes.

 

Now, if you must have neikung and only neikung with a Chinese master, then have you learned Chinese yet? I have a friend who left into the desert with only a his clothes, a pair of sandals and some friends and nothing else. He survived. He found a teacher in the desert of Arizona (if I understand him correctly) who taught him Chinese neikung. How? Why? I have no idea. The world is a miraculous place. Why the fuck would there be some guy in the desert like that? I have no idea. Don't ask me. Anyway, my friend ended up learning Chinese and moving to China. He got odd jobs in China and studied with Chinese masters. And you can do this too. Are you serious? Then do it. Nothing is stopping you. You can go live on Wudang. But you will need to speak Chinese and it won't be easy, because you won't be the only one trying to go live on Wudang. That's why I was trying to save you some trouble and point you in the inner rather than outer direction.

 

Don't tell me you got no inspiration and no advice. You heard plenty now.

Gold,

I guess being myself means focusing on achieving liberation above all else, its like a battlefield and my objective is to win at all costs. It seems to be pretty true to my character to pretend to be something I am not, if I thought being honest would jeopardize my chance of success.

To be honest with you man I fail to see your point at all. Be yourself even if it means your own death, basically that's what I am taking away from your posts. Well lets assume being myself meant not being able to keep a job, home or out of a mental institution. My priority is liberation, and losing my home, my car, my job, and being locked away and drugged and having my brain fried with electricity doesn't really seem like a viable method for doing so.

I've got a little challenge for you, go up to a jerk ass cop that harasses the shit out of people and speak your mind. Tell him he is a fascist nazi pig, and deserves to have the shit beat out of him. See how far being openly yourself gets you. I don't think you could believe your way out of that one.

I am sorry man I honestly don't get your point. How is burning my bridges that lead to my goal, going to get me closer to my goal? Does Not Compute Will Robinson.

I view the brain and the mind relationship like a candle and a flame. To be honest I do not know if damage sustained by the physical body also effects the spirit after death. From what I have experienced its my conjecture the spirit is itself still a biological entity. If a caterpillar is seriously damaged before it pupates, I would assume that at least some of that damage would be reflected in its adult butterfly stage. I am not a biologist so if I am wrong don't hold that against me. In either case I don't want to risk it. If being myself means permanent incarceration in a mental institution and having my brain fried out via electroshock, I'll pass on being myself. I know its an illusion, but I'd rather not put myself through such hell if I could help it.

On my conflicting ideas about reality. I'll say this the map is not the territory, our brains are map making machines, we each make a map of reality based on our limited experience, but again that map isn't the territory.

You see right now I am in my character. I honestly don't know how to interact with others and not be in character. I don't even know where to begin to do that. It's kind of like wanting to talk to people on the internet but not having a keyboard, mouse, microphone, or any other form of input device. If I want to communicate with you I need to have a character to do the communicating.

I guess I am just frustrated. My ideal lifestyle is doing as I please with no commitments to employers, or society. That would not be possible without winning some huge lottery or finding someone else to both support me completely and leave me alone. All of which are highly unlikely.

My next ideal lifestyle would involve finding somewhere I could live alone, and afford working 2 days each week or less.

What I have right now involves working mon-friday spending most of my pay on stupid expenses beyond my control, and saving the rest in hopes maybe one day many many years from now I can afford to buy land, build a home, and become mostly self sufficient, at which point I will have about 1/3 of my life left (maybe if I am lucky) to pursue my real priorities. This may be my only realistic option, but God Dammit Man! I don't want to be and old man by the time I really have the means to get serious about my practice.

On the neikung front, I've only seen a few schools validated, and I already am training in them. I don't have the desire to travel to try to personally validate and study other schools and masters. I've got all I need for the time being, and I'm not interested on further discussion on this topic.

When I am more advanced that will become a consideration.

http://enlightenedwarriors.com/home.shtml

sorry the picture of the rainbow fruitbat with a staff immediately sent shivers down my spine.

To everyone with actual advice, Thank You.

To everyone with criticism for my views on humanity, your thoughts have been noted.

To goldisheavy,

I don't think brutal honestly would seriously allow me to accomplish my goals and only stand hinder them. Losing a job isn't going to help matters. I need a place to shower and wash my cloths and cook my food, in order to maintain a job. Also being brutally honest about my world and religious views e.g. the world we live in is an illusion, or the idea of self is an illusion all identities and therefor people are illusory etc would most likely wind me up in a mental institution for some sort of dissociative disorder even those are valid Buddhist concepts. Even though institutionalization might have some perks, having my neurons fried out with neurotoxic chemicals and violent electroshock therapy would most likely end any chances of liberation this life-cycle.

This whole existence is a giant game, those that don't play by the rules set forth by this society are violently punished, and swept under the rug to keep them out of the site of other people. People caught in this illusion have a vested interest in maintaining it.

So I have a role to play here if I want to maintain some degree of freedom. I have to pretend to be a normal person, I have to look and act respectable to maintain employment, I have to chum it up with my roomates and help them with their daily drama. I don't really see an alternative, unless I were to inherit some large sum of money or win the lottery.

Sure being myself, and being honest might feel good and be liberating in a psychological sense, it would (or so I believe) have the opposite effect in a spiritual and real world sense.

I see your point but I hope you are just not experiencing a deep state of depression. I say what I say from the heart to another human being. If that is your Tao that is your Tao.

 

Do you have enough $$$ to get yourself to China? If so, maybe some of your friends here at Tao Bums can arrange something for you.

 

Tao Bless,

 

Wudangspirit

wudang,

Maybe you could watch the original planet of the apes and that movie idiocracy each about ten times, then go to sleep. Maybe you would dream a dream of being trapped in a society of ignorant shit flinging apes, and being dependent upon their society for survival. Every day pretending to be one of them, but in your heart knowing your not.

I don't really know if china could offer me anything I don't already have. There society seems worse in terms of personal freedom than ours. I am sure they might have some great masters there, but I have no idea how to find and test them, if I did find one I deemed advanced enough, he would have no obligation to teach me.

 

Why didn't the living out of your car work out for you? Seems like it could be suitable arrangement.

 

 

My biggest complaint about car living, was when I experienced a breakdown for more than a day I was homeless. The cost of car repair and maintenance, and rental fees still is very expensive.

Also having to keep a gym membership to shower, and eating mostly canned foods, run ins with police asking why I am parked in some rural isolated dirt road, police harassment in general, all take their toll on a person.

I decided in the end it was less of a hassle to live with other people and have a place to shower, wash clothes, refrigerate and cook food, than it was to live in my car.

I want to live a minimalist existence. I don't like people and socializing. I do not think a 40 hour work week is conducive to my spiritual goals, so I am seeking to change my environment. I am willing to work a few days a week, and I don't want to be a parasite on anyone. I fail to see how this is running away from anything.

Pie Guy,

 

It seems you haven't found the balance. Getting aways from what it reality is not the answer. You have to apply the philosophy to your current situation and still you rmind. Running away from the outside world isn't going to let you run away from yourself.

 

More cultivation will show you that. If you goal is to get some land and become a hermit then the reality is just as you said already. You'll have to partake in real life and work for what you want. That is true reality.

 

Cultivating yourself to live in the real world is the ultimate in self cultivation and living the true Tao. If you do the work you'll see clearly through to your goal and learn to detach from emotion.

 

Don't play a game of Hero, Persecutor and Victim of your self. Breaking free of that is true liberation.

 

Tao Bless,

 

Wudangspirit

Dude. You seem super angry. That isn't going to go away just by going away into a cave and "meditating"!

 

How can you even begin to think about helping others to "liberation" when you have such obvious contempt for people?

Meditation is the only time I feel truly at ease. I don't like most people, but then again people who seek liberation aren't most people.

goldisheavy,

Have you become really comfortable with your own mortality? Have you looked your own death in the eye and honestly asked where your priorities lie? What is it you wish to accomplish with your time here before your inevitable death? memento mori! I have and I realize I don't really give a shit about anything in this world. It is an illusion, and death is inevitable. The only thing that matters is liberation, and helping others do the same.

I don't care if sally joe got pregnant by bobby lu. I don't care about this weeks American idol. I don't care about anything in this world. It's all one giant neon distraction, keeping us from doing the only meaningful thing we can do. Life is all fun and games, till you realize it really is an illusion. I am assuming you actually enjoy living, in which case good for you. If and when you realize what a colossal bunch of bullshit everyone and everything in this society are, you'll get burned out too.

Being myself doesn't really work out so well here in the "real" world. If I want to hold down a job and have a place being friendly and amiable is a requirement. I just hate being a lie. Pissing away your life for peanuts is bad enough, pretended you like it and the fucking retards you work with is torture. It's even worse to know your time is running out, and another round of this bullshit awaits you if you don't make it out this time.

check out Goenka's Vipassana Meditation Centers. I think you are required to have some time between classes, but they are generally pretty cool and will let you stick around for an unlimited time, if you're willing to work around the center. No ritual, just hours and hours of deep meditation every day.

 

Good luck.

Thanks that might work, however they mention something about not training in other systems which invariably I would be. Do you think that would be cause for expulsion.

Do you mean you want someone else to support you while you attain enlightenment? If you are serious, you could just get your weekend job at some sort of farm, live off the land, and meditate... like the old days. But im sure if you were serious, you would already be doing this. Sounds like you just want a free ride in more ways than one.

"Are you going towards something or going away from something?" -growant

I don't mind working on weekends, to pay some sort of rent. However I want to be able to meditate for 16 hours or more each day for at least 4 days out of the week. Right now sometimes I manage up to 4 if I sacrifice sleep to do it, but I don't feel I am making adequate progress.

Are you going towards something or going away from something?

I'm just tired of living a lie. Tired of pretending to be someone I am not, just to keep a job, just to have a place to live. I am tired of pissing away my youth. Nothing in this life matters except liberation. Yet, ironically that is the hardest goal to work towards in this society. Everyone has to stay busy, has to stay entertained, has to work, has to do chores, has to do this, that, it never ends. By the time you've paid your time taxes to society and entropy, very little precious time is left for actual meditation.

This world feels more like a Nazi concentration camp, every day. I have to force myself into a false mindset to interact with other people. Work 8 hours most days, drive home, clean up after other people, wash my cloths, cleanup, cook dinner, and by that time I am exhausted and ready to go to sleep. I wake up at dawn and mediate for a few hours and its off to work again, to repeat another cycle.

Two years have passed me by and it seems only like a few months, and its ever accelerating. I seriously wonder if I will be able to achieve liberation in this lifetime meditating only a few hours a day.

I guess I am just frustrated and disgusted, there seems no way out of this vicious cycle, and no way to pull yourself up by your bootstraps.

None of those options seems viable for me. I did extensive searches on the IC site, all the communities seem like they require at least a $200 a month or thereabouts monthly contribution, as well as 10-20 hours a week worth of chores. I don't believe that would be an improvement over my current situation. Not to mention having to be cordial around all hippie Jesus freaks.

Joining a monastery has crossed my mind, but then you have to buy into whatever ideology their selling. I am interested in philosophical taoism, but Mak Tin Si has really turned me off to religious taoism. I am not interested in dogma, superstition and ritual.

My current plan is to work until I can afford land, and then build solar powered home off grid. Work part time to pay taxes and feed and cloth myself. However this may take 20 years of full time work and saving to accomplish. In the mean time I am working away my youth, more like pissing it away. Saving for a future that isn't guaranteed. All this work just to own some property that I will be forced to leave behind upon my death.

Seems rather futile to own anything in this world.

There just don't seem to be any good options. It seems the only thing you cannot do in this life is stop, everything is go go go!

Today I was in class, and subtly practicing...when all of a sudden the girl next to me began to bounce up and down, then suddenly she started to disappear starting at the neck and expanding up and down and out!

 

It only lasted about 20 seconds. Everyone jumped back, and STILL no one knows what exactly that was all about. Needless to say everyone was weirded out the rest of the day...especially the girl.

 

I'm just kind of confused. Why is it that I practice constantly, yet don't achieve that level?

what method are you using?

Dear Taobums,

I am looking to spend the rest of my life with as little real world responsibility as is humanly possible. I want a nice place where I can meditate and not be bothered. I don't mind holding down a part time weekend job, or even working double shifts on weekends.

Are there any communities which would be supportive of this lifestyle. I only own some books, a car and a laptop, and my clothes and personal belongings. Everything I own fits nicely in my trunk. I've tried living out of my car, and thats not so bad. However it becomes problematic, when it breaks down.

I've tried renting rooms from people but that also doesn't seem to work out so well, with all the drama and such.

I welcome your ideas.

-mpg

Hello Everyone.

Not sure what to put here. I want to dedicate my life to achieving liberation.

Not to keen on these newagey whack job types I see everywhere now-a-days. I am interested in systems and teachers that get real world results. I am not interested in anything else.