Thunder_Gooch

So you cannot complete level 1 while ungrounded?

As you meditate while grounded automatically as you fill your LDT with yang chi, the perineum point will gather an equal amount of yin chi, like a mirror image. If you are ungrounded this is impossible.

 

He explained to me, “Your yin comes from the earth and you need to be connected to it.” He said I have to sit outside on the ground. This was somewhat troubling because where I live it snows about twice a year and rains a lot, so while he was telling me this I was trying to figure how I was going to be able to do it. He also told me yang comes from the air and enters the energy point on the top of your head. And it needs to be equally balanced with my yin which enters another energy point at the area of your perineum.

 

McMillan, Jim Seeking the Master of Mo Pai (p. 178).

 

“Where does yin ch’i come from?” Andreas asked.

 

“From the earth. The yin comes from the earth. It is some kind of field phenomenon that feeds our lifeforce. It can be blocked by insulators. For example, if you have a carpet made from synthetic materials in your house, the yin ch’i cannot pass through it. That’s not so good for your health. “The yin ch’i enters the body through an acupuncture point that we call hui yin, he added. “It’s located between the urinary tract and the anus.”

 

Danaos, Kosta The Magus of Java (p. 104).

Thanks TG, Noted. Is that the last of the mo pai for this thread?

If you have to ask, assume no.

Longmen Pai is taught in person isn't it?

There is an option for that if you wish, there is also an introductory text.

For example I read that level 1 instruction you linked, which makes absolutely no mention of the 'grounding issue.'

I can't help that. The idiot who leaked that forgot to include it. It is impossible to progress at all if you are ungrounded in meditation.

Some people care about the truth and what was actually taught, and everyone else just cares about satisfying intellectual curiosity.

 

This may be different from what you're asking, but from a hermetic perspective, Yang energy is called Electrical Fluid and is hot and expanding. Yin energy is called Magnetic fluid and is cool and contracting.

 

In hermeticism, you can meditate on the feelings of coolness/cold to find the underlying magnetic (yin) property.

 

Also, if you're good with your mind... William Mistele, a Bardon initiate, has an excersise where you imagine someone who you feel embodies great electrical energy and then add to that person another person with great electrical energy. For instance Arnold Shwarzenegger + General Patton.. keep on adding a few people in your mind and fuse them together and feel that power. Then take away all form and just observe and feel that energy. That's electric energy.

 

Do the same for women you find very feminine/magnetic and you're left with magnetic energy which you can observe and feel with your mind.

If you can feel it it isn't what mo pai is calling yin chi.

 

Obviously there's always a risk, I'm just pointing out that said risk is significantly heightened by the lack of a teacher. I guess it's up to the individual if they want to take that risk, but it's there either way.

I disagree on level one, same thing is taught in longmen pai. Those LMP folks don't seem to spontaneously combust.

Seems to me more like a sour grapes excuse.

 

Basic in technique, sure (at least, the first level, which is the only one I've read), but that doesn't mean there isn't the potential for something to go wrong, especially if there are pre-existing problems, or issues from previous improper practice, or if someone tries to practice alongside another system.

There is always potential for something to go wrong, especially with made up and make believe practices which don't lead anywhere.

The question here is are a serious seeker, or another newage dabbler wanting the new teacher of the week who has never accomplished anything noteworthy other than being a popular newage teacher.

Even with a legitimate system and the supervision of a teacher there is risk.

 

“If you are successful,” John continued, “by forcing the two together, you also force them to react. Remember, they are not like electrical poles; they do not attract each other, but repel. This is how the spark, the lightning bolt between the two is generated, and you begin to become as I am.”

 

"And if we are not successful?” I asked.

 

“Then you will probably die,” John said softly.

 

“There is no point in doing this type of training unless you are ready to die for it.”

 

The Magus Of Java p109

But wouldn't you be pretty insane to try to learn something like that without a teacher? You have no idea whether the guide is complete, no one to gauge your process, or help you if you mangle it horribly.

It's basic meditation, it doesn't get much simpler than that.

 

Do you speak to your friends the same as you speak to your boss? Your grandmother? Your 4 year old niece?

 

No. Is that "playing games" and "being someone you're not"?

For me it is yes. At work I have to be someone I am not, it's part of the job and I am paid to do it. I don't like it but is part of the unwritten job description.

Interacting with grandmothers, children, girlfriends, "friends", each of those roles is not who I am, but I am forced into them to fit social conventions.

Yes it is very much playing a game.

Why is speaking differently to a woman you are attracted to and who you want to start a relationship with suddenly "playing games" and "being someone you're not"? How is it any different than the way we modulate our behavior in any other social situation?

Because it isn't real. You are role playing to get something you want, no different than con artist, or a sales man. I don't want be dating someone I have to keep up such a ruse with. The whole game itself is absurd.

ROFL was still busy laughing at your new nick/avatar More_... er Thunder_Gooch...

I sing it in my head like a jingle...

THUNDER GOOOCH!!! heck yeah!

To this this beat...

The weirdest people in all of Cyberspace all kind of congregate on this website.

 

No. The weirdest people in all cyberspace congregate on the Various Jedi-ism websites, those people make this place look mild in comparison.

LOL

lolololol

I am still debating thundergooch

In considering Biochemical Signaling (jing hint), the concept also applies to Neural Circuits, the ongoing streamlining of potentials and signal to noise ratios modulate the 'awareness potential' and 'depth of stillness.'

 

 

 

 

Signal-to-noise ratio is defined as the power ratio between a signal (meaningful information) and the background noise (unwanted signal):

where P is average power

 

 

 

Consider the amplitude potential of the meditator/session/awareness/stillness also as P

 

We all know Ohm's Law,

where I is the current (amplitude potential)

V is the potential difference measured across the conductor

and R is the resistance of the conductor

 

 

Simple enough - relax.

 

 

Now where anapana comes in, let's consider an expanded idea of resistance, Electrical Impedance. The key difference here being both magnitude and phase.

 

Consider an example of some harmonic oscillators:

or perhaps better,

and it is easy to see that when things are in phase, the amplitudes constructively amplify. Relaxed and in phase? Even better! Slightly more complex case with the body and the lower dantien, breathing, etc...but it is the rote anapana where you really work this stuff out and feel where the culmination of energy potential is for a given component, then it is up to you to combine, time them all together so as to produce the greatest amplitude. Timing, timing. Refine it.

 

The amplitude potential one is able to muster is a function of the depth of stillness one is able to attain.

 

 

When you've put in enough gongfu, the habit-energy of the work you've done re-programs the medulla with this enhanced timing and carries forth. This calms the nerves (stills the heartmind) and reduces the amount of neural firing that takes place. Its like taking a load off the system: the function, when dropped beneath a threshold of neural stimulation, no longer derives that stream of energy from which to resonate.

 

All of those refinements affect the signal to noise ratio - just like dropping the flow of air beneath the threshold of turbulence in the air passageways eliminates the little vortices of air that form and rob energy from the flow of air - this also happens on the neural scale. Below the threshold, the active firing stops and the raw energy potential of the action remains unmanifest. The challenge is how to....ah, sit with unmanifest? Like the inertia of any habit-energy, the more diligent you are, the more coherent the probability potentials become, to manifest un-manifest.

 

Unmanifest is where its at, because then a nifty little quantum mechanical ruling applies, which came from trying to determine particle spin and various detectors:

 

(I'll say a=3 and b=4, only two amplitudes just to keep the example simple)

-if the events happen in sequence, multiply the amplitudes: a*b = 3x4=12

(When practicing, events not in coherence will have the lesser outcome;)

-if the events are in coherence but can be distinguished, square the multiples then add: a²+b²

=9+16=25

(In refining, one finds coherence yet events are at least partly still of the mind and thus distinguishable;)

-if the events cannot be distinguished, add before absolute squaring: |a+b|² = |3+4|², ^2=49

(Practice until the foreground fades away, background becomes the foreground - and certain events will start to become indistinguishable.)

 

From this indistinguishable, the light of ongoing focused awareness shines forth - and with that higher P first introduced above, this also correlates to the likelihood of such a state manifesting....manifesting the unmanifest, hahaha

 

Its nothing short of establishing the habit-energy of the ongoing enlightenment experience, if you want to extrapolate a bit.

 

 

 

 

 

Your experience and mine are not congruent in this case. One of the first times I ever achieved what I would call 'deep trance' was while I was performing standing qigong movements. I certainly think it is easier to get deep with seated stillness meditation, but practicing movement (particularly movements that are deeply ingrained in your muscle memory) for a prolonged period of time can facilitate deep trance as well.

 

Ditto.

 

Oftentimes experiencing spontaneous movements during standing meditation leads to a deeper trance for me, whereas sitting by contrast can make it hard for me to detach from my brain's endless analyzing.

I don't know of any way to be up around and moving and breathing once per minute with a heart rate so low it can't be felt.

That state isn't like anything else I know of, it will certainly change how you perceive reality.

I was referring specifically to authentic internal cutivation practices

I know what you were referring to, I just disagree that there are as many of these available to us as you believe there are.

Whether you find anything useful or not is totally your call.

I don't.

_________________________

*shrugs* cop-out

I like to think of it as learning from experience.

I've tried numerous times to talk about my own experiences and every time it's ended in massive debate and argument.

I'll save my personal experiences and such for private discussion.

it'd be nice to hear of your experience instead of quotes from JC being about the extent of what you can add here, mpg.

I try not to discuss my own experiences as much as possible at least in public.

The less ammo I give my critics the better

when you insist that you feel you need to get into a deep altered state of some sort to have any much chance of making real progress, and that people who don't worry about such things and practice regularly even though they may not experience a deeply relaxed or altered state, are pretty much wasting their time, I am pretty certain that any experienced teacher in internal practices would likely tell you immediately to get such foolish notions out of your head and just start regularly practicing.

Whereas you believe the earth is littered with thousands maybe hundreds of thousands of "experienced teachers" I do not.

Out of the billions alive on earth, only a small handful have accomplished something more.

The teachings of those people who actually have accomplished something of meaning, are infinitely more valuable than any number of teachings from those who have accomplished nothing.

In my opinion most people just fill their head with nonsense chasing after the new teacher of the week, who isn't qualified to be teaching in the first place.

accomplishments are directly proportional to the practice they put in.

I have to disagree here. You can put in all the practice you like, but if you aren't in the right state of consciousness and can't maintain mental focus maybe 2% of the effort you are putting in is being utilized.

Something which should take a few months at most can take 10 or more years as a result.

 

Now, a beginning student cannot hold his concentration for long. Perhaps in one hour of sitting, he is actually in meditation for 1.3 minutes. That means he is meditating only 2.2 percent of the time, which means that if he sits for one hour a day, he needs ten years of training to get his eighty-one hours of meditation.”

 

-The Magus of Java p82

If a person has never been exposed to real practices via studying with a real accomplished authorized teacher of a system, and puts those practices into a daily practice

Again I will have to disagree. Quality and not quantity. 15 minutes here and there isn't the same, if you are not in the correct state of consciousness and can't maintain mental focus.

Accurate teachings matter most, it doesn't matter if you have a real and authorized teacher of some system if no one in the history of said system has ever accomplished anything.

While some may believe in the requirement of transmission, I do not.

You can indeed learn this knowledge on your own as an autodidact, most just lack the will power and determination to do so.

"working with" can absolutely be done while not in that deep state.

Perhaps once you are very advanced, but in my experience it isn't anywhere near the same level of deep trance.

_________________________

A person does actually have to practice daily before any real conclusions can be made.

Many people I meet would rather practice 15 minutes a day than for a solid few hours once a week.

Quality and not quantity is important.

It takes me many hours just to even hit a deep state of trance for training, so there is no point even attempting meditation if I can't dedicate the whole day to it.

Now, a beginning student cannot hold his concentration for long. Perhaps in one hour of sitting, he is actually in meditation for 1.3 minutes. That means he is meditating only 2.2 percent of the time, which means that if he sits for one hour a day, he needs ten years of training to get his eighty-one hours of meditation.”

 

-The Magus of Java p82

As you say, Qi can be worked with while in normal states. I think anyone who actually practices internal cultivation can easily know this on their own.

Anyone who has ever achieved a deep state of trance, will understand the gulf between working with energy in that state vs normal waking consciousness.

Sensations you can convince yourself you are feeling while in normal waking consciousness, in my experience are not on the same level as being in deep trance. (not even in the same ballpark)

It also in my experience is not possible to be up and around and moving and maintain deep trance.

Yeah I've met a couple of those A friend of mine who's really into the psychadelic/trance scene here took me to a 'meditation session' once, it was basically 2 hours of that video... Not really my scene :| But I don't get that vibe from many people here tbh.

There are varying degrees of it. Lot's of this too:

Is there some vast population of new age people here that I'm not seeing? Do they post in their own private section or something?

1) I have no interest in keeping the peace, disrespect too many times, receive justice for your actions.

 

2) In real life no ones gonna scream new age fuck tard multiple times, so why do they think they can do it on a web forum.

 

3) He is already on ignore, sometimes I read his posts anyways.

 

4) About the rules, what do I look like a lawyer or a policeman, laws and rules are nonsense...its common sense, disrespectful actions should not be tolerated...its like the way that being homeless is illegal in many countries, why should I care what some dumb rule is.

I don't like newagers, I tell them so in person in real life. If me ranting about newagers offended you my apologies it wasn't aimed at you personally, just the newage community in general.

well the only scientific documentation that reincarnation exists is to say that its a rediculous notion. So why worry about it if science is how you determine the reality of any of this?

I see various cases for what happens after death.

1. Eternal afterlife.

2. Eternal nonexistence.

3. Reincarnation.

The only of these three I find totally unacceptable is reincarnation.