bakeneko

This happens a lot, long-term issue with a flame war (or mini flame war) against a couple of parties.... then suddenly some "new" member comes and joins in!!!

 

While sometimes said "new" members, really *are* new members, it is always wondered (at least by me) whether they are not just a sock puppet, or friends of the dissenters, or from the same school, or whatever. Why would a member new to the board even care?

 

Even worse is when it's their 2nd post...

 

I'm (obviously) talking about far more than just this instance, but it is possible that this sort of thing has a bearing on this situation as well.

Not sure about how much this applies actually to me, but my posts in the pasts should be traceable. I am not new, just do not post often and usually ignore the arguments here (except if they have some entertainment value such as Mo Pai threads which I read for the often funny posts).

Anyway, I hope my suspension will be intact soon, I wanted to do some contributions over the holidays.

Hopefully, all those concerned (particularly Vitalli, Mods and you) have learned something about this forum environment and will move on.

For myself I have. Thanks.

[edited again]

You wonder why? Because I do not have the intention for any further escalation.

I stand by and take the responsibility for my above posts though.

Questions and criticism are welcome.

In case the question arises why I posted this here and not in the General or Buddhist section: Both the factual history as well as the terms used indicate a Daoist connection rather than a Buddhist. Same as master Jin Yi Ming was counted under Wudang rather than Shaolin (this separation in two fractions as a movement is more than questionable though).

I hereby apologize for not having quoted the original post referred by me then and causing some confusion. And I will not comment further in this thread.

I been thinking about sharing some findings and techniques (sp?) on these two, that I found so far. Nothing new or "new age".

Here is some old post of me for a start:

I am not in a position to talk in any way scholarly about this. I can only recount the info I found and how it was practiced by a number of Chinese a good long time after Damo. And this would be using Yi Jin Jing and Lohan Gong as the foundation for Xi Sui Jing, which as said before, is known to me as a sitting meditation with similarities to Mopai "level 1" but also some allusions to the "golden flower method". How to use the meditative method for "correct" sitting, standing, walking and even sleeping I found also shortly alluded to. I am certain that using these methods will "open" the different energy channels and chakras over time.

"Yi Jin Jing practice can increase physical power and strenghten the body of a practicioner and nothing more. Only the method "Rinsing marrow" (Xi Sui) can make a man inspired. [...] For sucessful practice in "Rinsing marrow" one must, first of all, have very serious intention and firm resolution. One must cast aside seven Qing (feelings) and six Yu (desires), give up all vain desires and leave behind axiety about life and death. At first it is difficult for a practicioner even to imagine all that but with time he starts to understand how to get success. You will be able to disappear and appear, free yourself (from earthly passions) and reach the top of perfection. You will be flesh and blood; nevertheless, you will be able to fly freely like the wind. Practice methods do not look like methods of Yi Jin Jing, though achievements in Yi Jin Jing are used as a base (for Xi Sui Jing practice). Primordially "Canon on Rinsing Marrow" (Xi Sui Jing) was written in Sanskrit and later translated into Chinese. There is a xylographic edition; Buddhist monk Di Chen has a copy which I saw with my own eyes. It is a genuine Shaolin relic. However the book contains a lot of special terms, notions and allegories based on the Buddhist teaching, therefore it is very difficult for a layman to understand and realize them so the book causes confusion and bewilderment in people."

Account of master Jin Yi Ming, Lian Gong Mi Jue, Shanghai 1930.

The Yi Jin Jing exercises I know are 12 in number (Da Liu also mentions them it seems in his book about Daoist health teachings) and actually rather simple. I been starting all over and am still at the first form again recently. Not sure if it would make any sense to describe the forms here.

Indication of rules, but no direct reason:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32886-daily-timetable-of-the-quanzhen-retreat/page-8#entry506856

All referred to before by quote was the post by Jetsun.

[edited for not wanting to be OT]

More threats:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32886-daily-timetable-of-the-quanzhen-retreat/page-8#entry506851

No reason given so far..

And the reason is?

Initial post referred to:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32886-daily-timetable-of-the-quanzhen-retreat/?p=503883

My comment:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32886-daily-timetable-of-the-quanzhen-retreat/page-7#entry506587

Moderation threat:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32886-daily-timetable-of-the-quanzhen-retreat/?p=506593

My comment on moderation threat:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/32886-daily-timetable-of-the-quanzhen-retreat/page-8#entry506848

Forum rules:

http://thetaobums.com/topic/19575-forum-terms-rules/

So where in the rules does it say, I could not write any general comment or "general criticism"? If i did...

My so called "criticism" obviously referred directly to the sentence written before in the very same post. So as I take it, this moderator lacks reading comprehension and knowledge of the subject matter to be qualified to issue any such threats as above. Also I see such demands as harassment and a threat as it is aimed to get me into writing my posts in a specific way, which is not necessary as by the forum rules and not wanted by myself. This is a breach of the rules themself.

If any poster would have seen my comment as too general, a simple question would and will solve the "problem".

~~~~~~~~~~~~ moderator message ~~~~~~~~~~~~~

 

Please refrain from such general criticism or you will be suspended

My comment was not "general criticism" at all. Reading the whole comment is "generally helpful".

This time table makes absolutely no sense to me, especially with "peak times" such as 5-7 am being about eating. Waste of time if one is already so free to be able to follow any such schedule.

Yeah that 40 years of training and researching must have all been for naught..

Because *everyone* styling himself an "expert" has this experience...and this experience is genuine and based on training and research? Really *everyone*?

I go with the aforementioned statement: *Most* of these "experts" know absolutely nothing. Except writing stuff that sounds "impressive" to people with no or little experience.

Not at all.

 

I simply asked what is the outcome of this 100 days celibacy. How do you understand you reached that goal (whatever it is)

Then sorry, I misunderstood.

Elaborate this statement please.

He likely means that either the number is wrong or the actual requirements were not fullfilled. Like another person in this forum posted about his "100 days" and mentioned nightly emissions, but still kept counting the days.

He should have gotten even more. But well, money can't fix some things.

The idea about Neidan(內丹) was coming from the idea of external elixir(外丹, Waidan). The ancient Chinese Taoists(ACT) were considered that Neidan is a higher form of Chi Kung because it is requires heavily in breathing. At this point, we must consider that the definition of Chi Kung is the ultimate method of breathing(UMB). Otherwise, the concept of Neidan in this thread would be invalid.

Which "ancient Chinese" text before 1910 uses "qi gong" in any such context? AFAIK at this time "qi gong" was used as a broad term for a number of practices for the very first time at all. Later uses of "qi gong" are basically all post cultural revolution.

You are in a daoist forum or supposed to be a daoist forum. Go with the flow, do not resist.

Uhm...no. While this is the "general" subforum, all this trite BS now has nothing to do with either the thread topic or Daoism. What I will do is "get out" and practice. Worth more than reading on here.

This is one of the lamest thread derails in this forum ever. Even Mopai threads were more on topic.

Apparently he didn't bother with that whole retention thing .

So, how you know that he did not practice "retention" unless for planned procreation?

I still did not see any concrete evidence for this. Usually Damo stories are seen as "flavoring" or foundation myths for the wu shu communities nowadays.

The way i understand it {which may be BS} is that genuine Immortality, fuses the two immortal 'souls' together so that they don't separate after death, which is what usually happens.

 

You see who we are is made up of the various 'souls' not just one of them.

 

The hun, is like the 'spirit' in western alchemy. It is rational, and cognitive, but it does not have memory. This is the part that travels from life to life, without memory. Its more 'yang'...

 

The Po is like the 'soul' in western alchemy, and is more like our word 'psyche' than some ways we may use the word 'soul'. It can become a wandering ghost after death, as it has memories but not much Intelligence. This is why some ghosts just do whatever the human did, over and over, and dont seem to grow much, or really change much. It is more Yin in nature...

The way I learned it, the hun are the celestial souls and the po the earthly souls. The hun tend towards pre-heaven and the po towards post-heaven. This is why the po stay in the earthly realm after death and dissolve over time (as they are related to the elements). The hun can go towards the celestial realms, which the po can not. In different sects techniques (magic) exists to do the more consciously. This way a person can conctact "heaven" (in the Daoist sense) directly. This is only a property of the hun though.

Couldn't tell where the male version comes from though -- either his own modification or another classic, one I didn't come across (and didn't look for, for lack of applicability.)

I know that part of it is described in another classical manual (forgot the name now though). But there it is about "training the sword" (lol) and has some more stages like binding a silk band around the "sword" and yadda. Similar to the jade egg exercise for women then I guess.

I'm 24 and my blood pressure is fine. I do have eye problems though.

Same problem here and something I learned early on is that just because one "can" do something, it is not necessarily a good idea. Deer exercise works best in my experience when sitting in a otherwise relaxed state. Hope, this helps.

Here is the epic manual:

http://mantakchia.com/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/Cosmic-Orbit-ebook-mantakchia.pdf

While MC is IMO rather "new age guy" than a "archetypical Daoist" i actually liked reading this book. Seems he goes back to his early days before he had the "ingenous" idea to add this-n-that to his original core teachings. The basic MC teachings are actually fairly simple and to the point and can be effective if one did gather some "juice" first (and is hence not just circulating ones own fantasies).