rene

Wonderful post, Old Friend! May I reply more fully when next on PC? Phone typing sux

This reflects an "either/or" mindset. In this case - it's "either" empty, "or" full. Your words shows your preference for the "empty" half of the whole, and that is fine; we each have our own understanding of these things, and you have a lot of company in the Eastern Traditions that emphasize the preference for the empty/yin/negative - over the full/positive/yang <-- which is embraced by Western Traditions (generally speaking) and is also fine. Either/or thinking is difficult to overcome...and people usually land on one or the other - rather than discovering that all things are actually: both, same time. In the DDJ, LiEhr teaches "Both, same time" beginning in Chapter 1. The Feng/English translation says: Ever desireless, one can see the mystery. Ever desiring, one sees the manifestations. To me, this says that we need both for balance; and that both at the same time is the natural way. Most interpretations of Ch1, especially those done with Buddhist/etc slant/bias, translate these lines to means that one should have no desires at all, because that supports their perspective and tradition...and the remainder of those translations follow the same starting point. Your words above reflect this thinking as well; the preference for the empty, which again is fine, but it's still an 'either/or' mindset that seeks a methodology to suppress half of what is natural..rather than integrating both halves of the whole. There are lots of examples in the DDJ about both, same time. As above, so below. Know the white, keep to the black. Sometimes breathing is easy, sometimes breathing is hard. Would you have it any other way? And so on... Other (non-ddj) ideas also reflect the both same time idea: All yang contains yin, all yin contains yang. Every action, and non-action, is one of equal and simultaneous creation and destruction... etc. Both, same time. But people will pick & choose from the DDJ that which supports their particular side of 'either/or'... and have difficulty perceiving that, as individual manifestations, we are both separate and unboundaried-non-separate at the same time. Today, in another thread, you said you are not returning to TDB. As that is the case, I wish you well on your path. Warm greetings. (-:

Only after Taco Bell supper.

The Dao of a Tree - is to flourish, or not; to grow, or not; to slump towards the ground, or not; to raise up in response to the sun/heavens, or not; and in its own time, and by its own nature (dao) to eventually wither and die. Such is the way.

His first 81 pretty much parallels the Feng/English translation. His LZ-channeled ones reveal (as best I recall) a moralistic undertone. Which is all fine and good - but adds extraneous concepts imo, and muddles up the clarity of the ddj. <--That's just my take; we each have our own understandings. (-:

Yep. That's what happens when someone comes in to the middle of a forum's history... and thinking they know what's what, and what's "best".

Well...that's what flowing hands did. Some of FH's ddj verses can be found in the quoted parts of other member's posts in that linked thread above.... I think he was up to DDJ 97? when he pulled it all off.

Yeah...but we all need a hobby.

I also find no usefulness in thinking that I know what is 'better' for someone else.

I find no usefulness in disparaging others' realities.

Who is it they call? Kindred spirits, those who sing; those who always hear.

Vapor Emperors Revealing lives of times past - Howling in the mist.

now content, right here. even in times of hard breath, still okay with now.

and found home within without going outside, you may know the whole world (-:

fighting only self i make peace with who i am welcome home rene

beautiful, & best example of Both, same time.

Holy shit. Stay safe, friend.

Then I should probably put an attribution in my last post. Bruce Lee. Thought you'd spot it.

It's better to be a warrior in a garden, than a gardner in a war.

Ohhhh I'm so looking forward to the rains too - they'll help with melting all this. We got our first glimpse of Spring yesterday morning!! The seasons here are two months behind; heavy snows used to come in January...but all that's likely changed. Good thing no calendars on Peaceful Mountain. No clocks either lolol. We just go with what comes, when it does. (-:

Been watching your votes. Your swamp is as desperate as the one here. Chkn sht politicians. So just leave already!! We're next. Wanna see how it plays for you first.

Tired of it.

That's really nice. Vivid & engaging! Thanks for the journey! (-:

btw, the answer to that chicken/egg dilemma is: The rooster.