Buddy

My point with this post is to turn a corner, and I'll do it in my own way. You might say it's always been the same but even just yesterday Chanyu was slagged for putting out a disclaimer on one group. Recently this board has been a Max-fest. And nay-sayers were slapped for their disagreement. Even Brian Kennedy who came here with no agenda was falsely accused. "Many of us question the varacity and direction of the various groups, cults or organizations whos' members are populating this site from time to time. You are not a leader in this effort." Oh boy. I'm not looking to be a "leader." I'm just me. But there are many people (over 7000) members here and most just lurk. Some of you here try to put yourselves up as experts and authorities. I'm just a fly in the ointment. But when anyone makes some outlandish claim or puts up a spurious video, I'm going to raise a flag for those who a.won't, as to remain anonymous less they get jumped on by the faithful (of the month), or b. unknowingly swallow the bullshit because of the hive-mind. BTW, I am a nice guy.

Harry, I've lived with me for 50 years. I know my ego better than you and I'm fine with it. If you're not, too bad. But it's interesting that you feel a need to chastise me, to "put me in my place". Whose ego is that, do you suppose? Hmmmm. OR, You're right. And I mean it to be that way. You're welcome in my "yard", anytime.

Back to you and yours Brian. It's water under the bridge (a Daoist reference?) My apologies back. Cheers, Buddy

Wayf, You and I have been at odds, but what you say here resonates with my experience. If you want to call it "qi", I'm fine with that. Not magic, no tricks, no wizards nor sorcerers. But I respect what you've written. Buddy

"In that story there was one who knew the truth and helped a fellow. How can you help one if you do not know the truth?" No, Harry. You missed the point of the story. But, as you say, there might be a language barrier.

"Out of over a billion Chinese, there's not so many who "don't believe in qi." Could you site your source for this? I'm betting not. "quit being racist, quit being white-supremacy driven, quit being a cultural colonialist" You clearly don't know the definition of racism, nor was it ever brought up here. There was no mention of anyone being Chinese nor white. No mention of culture was ever made. It's this sort of bullshit strawman hyperbole that is rampant among The True Believers. When you can't make a cogent point, you resort this. But your Steve's "mentor", aren't you?

"sun," "I was politely asked to contact Sean and I did so not because I was pressured or whatever. There was no try of mine to censor Sean from my side but I asked him if you could reconsider his decisions." You were "politely asked" to get Sean to reconsider what decision? If he would allow free expression on his board? "Just having concerns for the sake of having concerns does not necessarily belong into that category." And you decide this how? "In Chanwus case I do not see that though... what I see though is the try to discredit something he has no true understanding of, as -once again-, his informations are limited and in several instances were not properly put into context. " So, how much does he have to pay before he can complain? "Symptomatic of the world is that people care about things outside of themselves too much thereby scattering their mind into many directions and leading away from themselve. First clear your own yard before judging anothers... this is what I try to stick to." You jumped into this yard, I guess yours is clean? "Uninformed people will have to find things out for themselve if they want to get close to any level of truth. I have read a lot of book or movie reviews that were far from what my own experience finally told me. If you really do trust in them you are missing out a lot." Your compassion for the great unwashed and "uninformed" must be a great comfort to you, Harry. I'm reminded of a story. A pandit was traveling with a companion in a boat. He heard the unmistakable yet incorrect cries of one of his order. This fellow was chanting, "OO-Wah-hoo." This mantra (correctly and faithfully applied) was supposed to give one great siddhis and the ability to transcend the laws of nature. Chagrined at his brothers error, he had the boatman steer toward the sound. He found the sadhu in the forest and told him, "Brother, the correct mantra is, "Whhhahey UU Wah Hoo." The sadhu was overjoyed and thanked him. On his way back in the boat he still heard the unmistakable cry of. "OO-Wah-hoo" and shook his head and chuckled. Just then then sadhu came up running across the surface of the water shouting, "Brother, I'm sorry, I forgot what you told me!"

"No one on the outside can know whether this or Kunlun or Falun Gong or anything else is "the real deal" or is a "bullshit cult" or anything in between." Or the People's Temple of Jonestown? Or the Branch Davidians? Or the Heaven's Gate folks? I don't mean to be sensationalistic, but people would be alive today if there were more discussion about those cult by folks from "the outside."

Very nicely put.

Here's a brief overview on what happened to Gopi Krishna (from Om-Guru.com): Gopi Krishna was an office worker and spiritual seeker from Kashmir who was born in 1903, and wrote autobiographical accounts of his spiritual experiences. One famous one is Kundalini: Path to Higher Consciousness. Two unlikely events led him to the practice of yoga. First, his father renounced the world to lead a religious life leaving his twenty-eight year old mother with the responsibility of raising him and his two sisters. His mother as a result pinned all her hopes for success on her only son. Second, he disappointed his mother by failing a college house examination which prevented him from attending the university. He attributed this failure to his lack of mental discipline, as he had spent his time at college pursuing enjoyable subjects and ignoring those that would be required for the examination. He felt great shame at this failure, and resolved from that point forward to live a life of simplicity and austerity. He would restrain his desires, reduce his needs, and gain mastery over himself. He rebelled against his father's choice of leaving the world, and instead chose to live as a householder and raise a family. He also adopted a routine of meditation as part of his mental discipline and practiced concentration exercises for a number of years. In spite of his religious orientation, he did not have a spiritual teacher and was not initiated into any spiritual lineage, which would have been a common practice for a religious Hindu. Over a period of years, he developed the ability to sit for a period of hours in concentration without any discomfort. The following account which took place in 1937 describes his first Kundalini experience which occurred while he was visualizing "an imaginary Lotus in full bloom, radiating light" at the crown of his head. Suddenly, with a roar like that of a waterfall, I felt a stream of liquid light entering my brain through the spinal cord. Entirely unprepared for such a development, I was completely taken by surprise; but regaining my self-control, keeping my mind on the point of concentration. The illumination grew brighter and brighter, the roaring louder, I experienced a rocking sensation and then felt myself slipping out of my body, entirely enveloped in a halo of light. It is impossible to describe the experience accurately. I felt the point of consciousness that was myself growing wider surrounded by waves of light. It grew wider and wider, spreading outward while the body, normally the immediate object of its perception, appeared to have receded into the distance until I became entirely unconscious of it. I was now all consciousness without any outline, without any idea of corporeal appendage, without any feeling or sensation coming from the senses, immersed in a sea of light simultaneously conscious and aware at every point, spread out, as it were, in all directions without any barrier or material obstruction. I was no longer myself, or to be more accurate, no longer as I knew myself to be, a small point of awareness confined to a body, but instead was a vast circle of consciousness in which the body was but a point, bathed in light and in a state of exultation and happiness impossible to describe. Krishna, Pandit Gopi, Kundalini: Path to Higher Consciousness (New Delhi: Orient Paperbacks, 1992), pps. 6-7 Shortly after the initial experience above, Gopi experienced a continuous "luminous glow" around his head and began having a variety of psychological and physiological problems. At times he thought he was going mad. He attempted to contact people reputed to know something about the Kundalini system of yoga, but could find no one who could help him through this difficult period. He adopted a very strict diet which helped him maintain his precarious mental balance, and for years refused to do any meditation (since he attributed all his troubles to the yogic concentration exercises he had been doing). He was aware that a fundamental change had taken place in him after his experience of Kundalini. He believed that this experience began a process in which his entire nervous system would be slowly reorganized and transformed by the Kundalini energy that he awakened within himself. He conceived of this energy as an intelligent force over which he had little control once it was activated. Gopi spends a great deal of time describing the fear and anxiety he had in dealing with day to day events after the above experience. The food he ate and the time he ate it became like a branch which a man grasps in rushing flood waters which saves him from drowning. He also acknowledges the importance of his wife's devotion and support in helping him maintain his sanity during the decade following his first encounter with the Kundalini. This portion of his account could be described as a heroic effort to deal with something bordering on a nervous breakdown. He was required to make a perilous journey into mysterious regions of the psyche, and he found it a very difficult and drawn out process. The following experience occurred spontaneously about twelve years after his first experience, and only after he had been strengthened by the spiritually directed biological transformation he had undergone: Without any effort on my part and while seated comfortably on a chair, I had gradually passed off, without becoming aware of it, into a condition of exaltation and self-expansion similar to that which I had experienced on the very first occasion, in December 1937, with the modification that in place of the roaring noise in my ears there was now a cadence like the humming of a swarm of bees, enchanting and melodious, and the encircling glow was replaced by a penetrating silvery radiance, already a feature of my being within and without. The marvelous aspect of the condition, lay in the sudden realization that although linked to the body and surroundings I had expanded in an indescribable manner into a titanic personality, conscious from within of an immediate and direct contact with an intensely conscious universe, a wonderful immanence all around me. My body, the chair I was sitting on, the table in front of me, the room enclosed by walls, the lawn outside and the space beyond including earth and sky appeared to be most amazingly mere phantoms in this real, inter-penetrating and all-pervasive ocean of existence which to explain the most incredible part of it as best I can, seemed to be simultaneously unbounded stretching out immeasurably in all directions, and yet no bigger than an infinitely small point. From this point, the entire existence of which my body and its surroundings were but a part, poured out like radiation, as if a reflection as vast as my conception of the cosmos were thrown out upon infinity by a projector no bigger than a pinpoint, the entire intensely active and gigantic world picture dependent on the beams issuing from it. The shoreless ocean of consciousness which I was now immersed in appeared infinitely large and infinitely small at the same time, large when considered in relation to the world picture floating in it and small when considered in itself, measureless, without form or size, nothing and yet everything. It was an amazing and staggering experience for which I can cite no parallel and no simile, an experience beyond all and everything belonging to this world, conceivable by the mind or perceptible to the senses. I was intensely aware internally of a marvelous being so concentratedly and massively conscious as to outluster and outstature infinitely the cosmic image present before me, not only in point of extent and brightness but in point of reality and substance as well. The phenomenal world, ceaselessly in motion characterized by creation, incessant change and dissolution, receded into the background and assumed the appearance of an extremely thin, rapidly melting layer of foam upon a substantial rolling ocean of life, a veil of exceeding fine vapor before an infinitely large conscious sun, constituting a complete reversal of the relationship between the world and the limited human consciousness. It showed the previous all-dominating cosmos reduced to a state of transitory appearance and the formerly care-ridden point of awareness, circumscribed by the body, grown to the spacious dimensions of a mighty universe and the exalted stature of a majestic immanence before which the material cosmos shrank to the subordinate position of an evacent and illusive appendage. Krishna, Pandit Gopi, Kundalini: Path to Higher Consciousness (New Delhi: Orient Paperbacks), 1992, pps. 165-166 Gopi Krishna's account contains a wealth of clear descriptions of the variety of mental states he passed through in his encounters with the Kundalini energy. However, one area that stands out as particularly interesting was the change in his experience of dreams. About a year after his first Kundalini experience, his dreams began to take on a "phosphorescent" quality and he experienced the transformation of his dream life: Every night during sleep I was transported to a glittering fairyland, where garbed in luster I glided from place to place, light as a feather. Scene after scene of inexpressible glory unfolded before my vision. The incidents were of the usual character common to dreams. They lacked coherence and continuity, but although strange, fanciful and fantastic, they possessed a visionary character, surrounded by landscapes of vastness and magnificence seldom seen in real life. In my dreams, I usually experienced a feeling of security and contentment with the absence of anything the least disturbing or disharmonious... Krishna, Pandit Gopi, Kundalini: Path to Higher Consciousness (New Delhi: Orient Paperbacks), 1992, p. 119 Gopi Krishna's graphic accounts of his experiences stand out as among the clearest journals documenting a spiritual transformation of any this author has encountered. He is honest in describing the difficulties and dangers of the spiritual path, and the intense pressure it can exert on the physical body. He is not a guru in the classical sense of one who has disciples. He is more of a seeker who later became a teacher documenting his experiences with the Kundalini energy in a number of books, in hopes of being helpful to others who encounter this extraordinary spiritual phenomena. Gopi Krishna attended conferences in the West on Kundalini Yoga and died in 1984.

BTW: http://www.realitysandwich.com/shamans_and...stanedas_legacy http://www.salon.com/books/feature/2007/04/12/castaneda/ http://www.geocities.com/ourredearth/plastic.html Guess it's not just me, kimosabe.

Check it out: http://kundalini-support.com/

"Oh look, the little turd who's been insulting me all along now makes threats when I return the insults. How brave you are, Buddy, whilst hiding behind your silver screen. Do you always underestimate your enemies?" You reveal your true nature with your silly insults, Steve. Enemy? Don't flatter yourself. I'm easy to find, I've posted my address on this forum, please feel free to stop by. Otherwise, stop the keyboard posturing. Post your stuff about wizards on a martial art board and see the fun ensue. You'd be filleted on Empty Flower.

Hmmm. Kunlun is a mountain range. Kunda is the root of kundalini. Kunda means curl or coil. I don't know if there is a etymological similarity.

I'm gonna have to chew on this one a while. Good stuff. I've been equating it with the Sanskrit "Sanatana Dharma." Any thoughts?

Hey Brian, Thanks for the explanation and it makes sense. Actually I like the idea that if your going to do deity worship, bring up to date. I have to admit it made me smile when I first saw it, though.

"so when I said 'it's sweet I guess' I was talking about the little 2/3 year old Buddy after having been chastized for crapping in the wrong place taking on this anal/territorial mask... sweet, but also sad in a way..." Please save your condescending pseudo psychology for chatting up chicks at the bar. All you needed ever do was address the question as asked. But you're a little too above that, it would seem. Typical, "but also sad in a way." Yoda, Since you seem to have experience in both traditions, thank you for your comments.

Like I've said, I have no problem with folks needing to pay the mortgage. But when you indoctrinate someone into a belief system and then use that belief system against them when they don't toe the line, that's a cult. Sounds like the Medieval Christian Church...don't follow the pope, burn for eternity. BTW this is not meant to be directed at Mr. Wang, although he allows the practice. I read Cleary's book and found it to be very fanciful, sort of like the Wandering Taoist. But I don't know the practices so won't comment on them.

"You may have noticed "Sifu" is no longer used, I realised that using this title was not appropriate for this forum. I humbly apologise any pretentiousness on my behalf. I am a sifu in regards to being a teacher and instructor of taijiquan, I make no claims beyond this." Hi Stig, Sorry I didn't notice. Clearly you are a class guy. My apologies. "Buddy is jealous is all, and anal retentive, and while he may have read some boring books he has no experience of the mysterious. As it says in the TTC, those who are desireless can see the mystery. Buddy has obviously never seen the mystery, and he readily demonstrates his pathetic desires." Of quit your whining Steve. Your just projecting your own inadequacies. "I must say that Buddy, who is a purported nei kung teacher, who has never met a real chi kung master and felt projected energy from said master is a really low level teacher. He's jealous is all, and he's a troll, and I would appreciate it if you would not respond to the little turd on my thread. " I knew you'd get to personal insults. It's your way. You don't know who I've met or what I can do. I'm willing to bet my martial prowess surpasses yours, however. Be careful what you say.

"Warren Buffet's advice might be in a few books, but how many people personally apprentice with him and get hands on assistance and mentoring, very few." No, Sean. They're not. Just go to a Borders. Please talk about what you know People stand in line to get to a WWF show, it doesn't make it real. What David is doing is a business. Did the Buddha charge for his teaching? If I go to Sri Lanka or Cambodia or Nepal now, and say to a monk..I can't afford to pay you. What do you think they'd say? I already know. Just be up front that it's a straight up marketing scheme. I'd at least respect that. Oh, and don't mention the Revenge of the Gods.

"Can I honestly, politely and humbly ask (and this is aimed at SJ as well due to the fact that he is waging the same campaign) why do you think you need to do this?" You may. But let me ask you this, why do you use the phrase Sifu? I need to do this because there are a lot of cheaters and hucksters out there. When I started here, I was the 259th person to join. You're the 7517th person to join. How many people post with any regularity? That might mean there are a lot of lurkers who may not know shit from shinola. I'd like, in some small way, help that they not get duped into some scam. Sorry, that may not be a "tale of power". Or maybe it is.

Sean, C'mon, it's a business. Don't try to bullshit anyone otherwise. How much money did Jesus charge anyone for his teaching? I don't have a problem with people charging for their services, not by a long shot. But Warren Buffets success is a proven commodity, you just offer promises. Mr. Buffet's method can be had readily, there's folks who worked for him who wrote books about it. He didn't threaten anyone with curses from the gods like you guys do. You're a bullshit cult.

Steve has given you good advice here. Maybe it's a bipolar issue. I did a lot of psychedelics in my youth. I've never had one come back. Maybe it was all the intense kung fu training.

Nah, sorry Stig. I've never claimed much, much less tyrant. I'll admit to being a well read, fairly smart guy who has had really good teachers. But I don't claim any special powers or being able to do anything that any of you might be able to readily do. I'm fairly strident in my opinions and in my expression of them, but that's just me. I'm not looking for disciples or for anyone to even like me. I don't need it. But if I can save one person from buying into the bullshit, I'm happy. I have a (as we say in Massachusetts) wicked good life, great kids, still in love with my wife, a satisfying job, some select students whom I consider my equals (I just know one page ahead of them). Steve knows wizards. What can I say?

"I agree David has knowledge and can also write very well and this helps bring in more students, i feel that 250 is too expansive especially living in Australia with the currency as well the money spent on visiting David and his teachers in euro's will cost the aussies alot more." Since it's so expensive I guess I'll never know BUT: He has knowledge or information? There is a vast gulf between those two and an even vaster one between knowledge and skill. Just sayin'