ZenStatic

What if they are broke because they are sick and cannot work?

What if they are cursed by a demon and can't have enough peace of mind to work?

There are times when it's good to just help one another in this world.

Perhaps the sickness or curse is the reason they are not ready and do not have the money? I'm sure all of us could list times, where by "chance", we obtained something we needed, at the exact time we needed it most. Whether that be money, or anything else, it has happened to us all. And I am sure we can all see the flip side, where we didn't get things, when we thought we needed them most. But how often, did we find that we didn't really need it at all then?

I think it's funny people find it annoying. He just happens to be an active member of the forum. Maybe he is just posting at the level that the forum "needs"? And we are all just lagging behind in our topics and posts.

 

I wonder if it is annoying to MTS that everyone else posts so little.

Great post. I find it interesting also that it is newer members of the forum that seem to be bothered the most by it.

Anyway, gossamer, no reason to go man. I'm constantly in that "I dont know jack" stage around here. Hell, for the first year or so, I barely posted, I would just come and read. Maybe you want to do something like that. Just read, and only post when you have a pressing question on something you have read. It does wonders for the blood pressure.

I see three threads of thought flowing through this topic.

 

1) I don't want to see someone soliciting their "school" of Taoism through this forum

 

2) I don't want to see anyone writing about Taoism that doesn't fit into my frame of reference or what I know as Taoism

 

3) I don't see anything wrong with anyone posting anything related to Taoism

 

I personally find option 3 the best one and least condescending and most open...demonstrative of Beginner's mind.

"Unless we empty our cup, it can't hold more tea"...

"Nan-in received a university professor who came to inquire about Zen. He served tea.

He poured his visitor's cup full, then kept on pouring.

The professor watched the overflow until he no longer could restrain himself. "It is overfull. No more will go in!"

"Like this cup," Nan-in said, "you are full of your own opinions and speculations. How can I show you Zen unless you first empty your cup?" "

It's actually my sig on another forum Fabulous tale.

I think it's funny, that a guy that is actually sharing knowledge with everyone, and the on his website has the option to pay for specific things, is getting a harder time than the guy that was selling $70 ebooks. Strange how attitudes can morph.

Is it just me, or has TTB gotten a lot stranger since like sept oct?

I, like many people here I am sure, very much come here to learn from others. But honestly, I am starting to dread opening a lot of threads here. There is so much ridiculous bullshit going on, it's really getting out of hand. So please, I ask nicely, if you don't agree with something someone says, say so. But stop the attacks on the person. If you know you disagree with most things someone says, why not just stay out of those threads instead of disrupting things for others? I love this forum, but I don't come here to see so many people bashing others.

Your experience is the only thing that matters, not what other people say...even if they're compassionate, real seekers, who sound like they know a lot.

So then, by your standard, the TTJ matters not as well, but you reference that.

Did all the New Yorkers move?

Lets try this whole get together in Chinatown for lunch thing again. Last time it just kinda fell off to nothing, I thought maybe if we have a decent bit of advance warning, it might be easier. So, I was thinking some time right after the turn of the year would be good, sorta ring in the new year in a good way.

So, if taosim is training to become immortal, what does your lineage teach about people who have died? Is it like in buddhism and we are reincarnated and have another chance, or are we dead and just rot away?

I think what you were thinking before is a Tea-Sales not a Tea Master. haha! He is trying to get more sales and more people to drink the tea so one person will come to him and say, wow that is a great tea, let me have 2 packs. But a Tea master is very different. He will only share his knowledge and tea to anyone who come along and want to try. Those that do not want to try, is not a problem from him.

 

In the theory of Wu Wei that we learn in Taoism basic, that is the first thing we shall learn to avoid greed. Most people are being greedy from their desire and wants. So they always want more and more. That is endless greed in your life which will lead to total tragedy for yourself. So as a taoist, we learn to get rid of that habbit of WANT and GOAL or even AIM. We set a guildline for ourselves and go do it. The result is not a matter for us. Who ever get benefit is their fate and their good karma credit brings them to the knowledge.

 

For people who are thinking this way- I want to learn taoism but how can I ensure I will not be ripped off or cheated if I pay money. This is already going anti-Wu Wei thought. They are greedy for the deman and desire of "truth" or "real", which is also a greed. In Taoism learning, one shall just go learn and learn, when you set your guildline in learning, you will get there anyway. If you get ripped off or cheated, it is part of learning, so no hard feelings, I mean no feelings. No any feelings. That is start of wu wei. Also what we shall learn in taoism learning too. If you WANT something, that means you have desire.

 

The OuLong tea I am sharing is on the table already, just that you cannot see it because you are talking to me face to face now. Look down and you may find it all over the place, just take a cup (it's also labeled - take for free)

I think that may be partially faulted to the western forms of religion. They are not about being there for people to take or leave, but about actively trying to recruit into their ranks at all times. So I think many of us may inherently carry the attitudes regarding that along with us when we are exposed to the religions of the east.

Have you seen "Amongst White Clouds"?

I would very much love to see this movie, but I find it hard to justify $30 for it if I don't even know how it will be. I tend to only buy DVD's that I know have a replay value for me.

So, I have some bad habits in my life that I just cannot seem to overcome. I know that there must be a way, because others can and have done it. Does anyone have real practical advice on overcoming obstacles like this? Please keep in mind I am a complete novice, with very little practice in cultivation.

Speaking on the picture, why not have the 3 rings actually contain the trigrams and create a giant bagua?

How do you know that? How many celibate immortals have you met?

Listen, if you don't believe in things, fine. But stop mocking those that do. Your petty bullshit sprinkled throughout so man threads really starts to get old.

Wise words, thanks. In fact I may just go about my day and not take that advice, but if no one laughed it would not be Tao.

Try again, it may not appear on the surface.

 

And all in all, smile

Wow, you can copy paste, good for you. I said original, not something you got from someone else. Either way, your attitude reeks and seeps into everything you say. Enjoy it.

A lesson in reading properly before launching in...

 

A post...

A reply...

I think the answer would be yes, he knows

 

It is fun to see the shuddering and shaking of someone awakening. Shouting at the one who turned on the light.

Gee, you're funny. If he knew, then why did he interpret the text to be THE definition of taoist practice, or non-practice, rather than the refutation of Confucianism that it was? Just because he mentioned Confucius and Mencius, who was a follower of Confucius so that's kind of redundant, doesn't mean he understood the context. perhaps you need to do the "reading properly" next time.

And you can take your little wannabe superiority and shove it right up your ass. I have yet to see you actually contribute anything even slightly original in your posts, perhaps you are just hear to troll away?

Thank god I had just swallowed my tea, or it would have shot out of my nose! That was such a great and hilarious video.

To me there is only one Taoism, and that's what's described in Dao De Jing (Tao Te Ching), Zhuangzi (Chuang Tzu) and Liezi (Lieh Tzu). Especially Zhuangzi, because Dao De Jing is essentially a reflection of Dao, but Zhuangzi is a path to Dao, and Liezi are some inspirational and wise stories about various sages, but not exactly a path, more like a boost or a kick in the ass along the way.

 

Fundamentally Zhuangzi rejects structured approach. Zhuangzi rejects formulaic approach. If you just read Dao De Jing you may have a nice feeling like "aahhhh" but no way to realize Dao in yourself, because it's just a "here's how Dao is" work, and not a "here's what to think about or do on your way to realizing Dao in yourself". Zhuangzi laughs at Confucious and Moists. Zhungzi makes a mockery of every established idea, of facts, of everything we take for granted, and perhaps he even laughs at himself too. Zhuangzi takes nothing seriously, but this not taking anything seriously is serious business.

 

Now if you look at the so-called "religious" Daoism, it does everything that Zhuangzi laughs at. It's like a spit in the face of Zhuangzi. Like a giant f u to Zhuangzi. That's what "religious" Daoism is. Zhuangzi was not a religious person. He didn't go to any temples. He writes nothing about going to temples. If anything he recommends to stay away from the civilization instead of embracing it. Zhuangzi takes a very skeptical and dim view of humanity. He laughs at it and doesn't find it all that appealing. Zhuangzi teaches you how to ask questions. Zuangzi teaches you how to keep your mind open and how to never be stuck. And as he teaches you all that, he does so with humor. He laughs and makes jokes. Is there any room for jokes in religion? NEVER. Religion is always serious business. If you believe wrong, religions are the ones that will behead you, torture you, excommunicate you and so on. But to Zhuangzi there is no right or wrong belief, just unexamined and examined belief. Unexamined belief is naive and stupid. Examined belief is no longer a real belief anymore. It's no longer a serious belief. That's because if you examine a belief and look for its foundations, you can't help but laugh at it at some point.

 

The problem comes with the word "philosophical". In the West we have lost the true Greek meaning of that word. Philosophy means "love of wisdom". It doesn't mean idle intellectualization, and it doesn't mean making a lot of conclusions and taking various opinions as your own. Pretty much all or most of the Western philosophy is garbage (save perhaps deconstructionists? and some phenomenological works? but mostly garbage -- too wordy, too jargony, and not eminently hard hitting). So this gives philosophy a bad rep.

 

So what you call "philosophical" Daoism is the real path and it has nothing to do with making more and more opinions. It has to do with examining your beliefs in a critical fashion and resting your mind in peace as you do so or in intervals. The result of this is attainment of GREAT peace, joy, contentment and limitless powers (magic). Zhuangzi advocated meditation along with contemplation. Zhuangzi strongly advocated the reader to rely on one's own mind. There is a lot of experimentation and real tangible work, but Zhuangzi knows if you are smart enough to understand him, you will know what that work is, and since there is no need to structure that work, he didn't even bother to present it (wise man!).

 

Religious Daoism is for someone who wants to ingratiate oneself, to accumulate merits, to seek protection, and so on. It is NOT for anyone who actually wants to reach immortality in one life. Immortality has nothing to do with making charms or divination. Zhuangzi laughs at divination.

 

The big 3 taught fundamental principles and left it up to you to come up with the details. But religious Daoism leaves NO detail up to you, because it has prescriptions for everything, while it teaches you no principles of Dao. Basically religious Daoism is the opposite of the true spirit of Daoism, although like all things, and like ignorance, it is still a part of the Dao.

Ah so at last we know you are a Zhungzi follower. You don't seem to care about the Tao, only in staying away from what is structured. Do you even know that Zhuangzi's writings we're in response to the Confucian thought of his day? Or does context just mean absolutely nothing to you?

Amusingly enough, what you proscribe as Zhuangzi's taoism, goes by another name, Zen. I mean, you want all parts of "religious Taoism" tossed out, so all of the shamanic practices they may use that predate the TTC must be tossed out. No qigong. No internal alchemy. No qi cultivation. So what do you have left?

What I think is especially telling, and actually shines light on what you do actually believe and your view of the world, is your complete disdain of structure. And you know, that is fine, for you. Your personal belief on how the world should be, and your personal belief of how spirituality should be, are shaped by who you are and your past experiences. It would just be nice if you started stating it as opinion, rather than trying to make believe it is solid fact in this world. Abusing the context of an ancient text, and having a few others that agree with you, doesn't make you the universal voice of truth.

not exactly taoist, rather Islamic Samarran from 5th millenia BC..

I'm sorry, but how can anything be Islamic, from before the advent of Islam?

wow, everything is magic in taoism isn't it. If I paint my fingernails with taoist nail polish will I be defended from black magic?

 

I apologize in advance for my cynicism. I could not help it...

That's not cynicism, that's just being an asshole. If you don't like the content, stop reading his threads.

Yep, I only want to deal with purity. You have fun playing the wizard.

Did you even read? The very things that you would do for internal alchemy, include elements of the same things you wish to throw out. So how exactly do you plan to cultivate?

alternatively you could try to cure your child and also use ear plugs.

Oh, you found a cure for autism? Well come on then, share it with the rest of the world!!! Oh, and don't forget to shove those ear plugs up your disrespectful ass too.

Well, I can say this. The "religion" which Mak_Tin_Si practices has no interest in me based on his writings and arrogance.

 

Taoist practices in my mind revolve around internal alchemy, that's it. No talismans, no rituals, no sorcery, blah blah.

 

An energetic, spirutal practice.

"No talismans, no rituals, no sorcery, blah blah." So how exactly do you plan to do internal alchemy? Qi gong and the like are very much a ritual action. The gathering in and moving of qi would also nicely fit into the realm of sorcery. But, the most telling thing you say is this "in my mind". I guess it is a good thing that your mind doesn't dictate actual reality. Have fun in your own dimension.

Lustbader is great!! Wish he would have kept writing down that line, but he got the Bourne books.