ZenStatic

Wow... a Buddhist being a tuff guy!

 

Not an apt challange but at least it was fiesty!

 

So rare (and happy) a glimps at a deep & loving nature so well evolved as to cast aspersions about Taoism on a Taoist site and blithely continue in ardent rudeness...

 

What a relief to find a deeply human and unrealized voice of hostility claiming to be on the Buddist path- we get them all here...

Yeah, there is also the kind that obviously can't read here too.

Welcome to The Tao Bums discussion forum. This is an informal community created to discuss Tao (Dao), particularly as is expressed in key philosophical texts such as the well known Tao Te Ching of Lao Tzu, health and cultivation practices such as Tai Chi and Qigong (Chi Kung), nonconceptual meditation approaches such as Zuowang (sitting and forgetting), and also the historical developments of Taoism as the bona fide Chinese religion of Taoist priests and shamans. Don't let this intro scare you though. Most of us are syncretic at heart. Discussion is encouraged to wander eclectically across a wide range of spiritual thought and practice, whether Buddhist, Yogic, Tantric, Judaic, Advaitic, Christian, Islamic, Shamanic, Occult, "New Age", Integral... As long as you are up for a good time, you're welcome to discuss your path. Though we can get rowdy at times, we all do our best to keep it civil. We are, almost as a rule, rather strange, but we have good hearts and even better senses of humor. If you are not already a member, registration is a three step process. First create a username for yourself. Make sure you use a valid email address because, next step, check your email and validate your email address. The final step to full membership; go to The Lobby forum and create a new post introducing yourself to the group, and telling us a little about yourself. It's just a little ritual we have here, your post can be as short or as long as you'd like. Again, welcome to The Tao Bums.

This is NOT a strictly taoist site, and in fact, most of the people on this site that like to sit and bitch so much about it, shouldn't really even be called taoists huh?

Why is it that the times every few weeks or so I decide to come look around here, I find more posts of people trying to puff their ego than trying to learn or teach? Seems as though sean's labor of love is being turned rotten by some bad apples.

What's BS about what I suggested? I don't know the OP - and even if I did, I would argue that suicide is not the option until ALL related ideas and alternatives have been gone over at length. If you can think this hard about death, you can think this hard about life.

 

Beliefs are fine enough until they do you or others harm via action.

 

Seriously, would you suggest that I come on here and advocate for people killing themselves? No can do.

 

Let's be clear about this. It may be online, but it's still people we're talking about.

 

I'm sorry about your own attempts and I have no idea why you did that. But now you're fine and I would suggest exercising extreme caution with this topic with the OP perhaps reading - who may not be as fine as you are.

 

Hopefully they are feeling much better and are well on way to making sense of how they felt.

No, what I think is BS is your automatic condemnation of something which you obviously don't really grasp. Your thinking has got to be along the lines that death is the end, which is fine for you, but don't push what you believe on others.

I am not saying we should come on here and encourage people towards suicide. What I AM saying, is that we all have our own karmic burdens, and our lives will play out as they are meant to. For you to come on here and try to say otherwise, is well, frankly, amusing. Once you realize that death isn't the end of the road, you'll feel a lot better.

P.S Just here sharing not here to sign up anyone or Bullshit to you all, this is one of my rare arts which Ive been told to share to the public.

See, you say that here, but then the description for your video:

High definition instructional DVD coming soon. High level internal iron palm, the secrets unveiled!

So either you expect us to believe you're going to give away the DVDs; or this is just some preliminary advertising.

Why does it seem that every time someone sets out to teach something they have to add the "Secrets revealed!" "Never before seen!" bullshit to it? Is it some kind of fear of not making money on it? Or just to lull the sheep masses into brainlessness so they go out and buy another system they will probably never use.

Interestingly, people are referring to how suicide is condemned in Buddhism, yet, no-one really knows. I actually just started reading an interesting treatise on this the other day, perhaps now I will finish it.

http://www.westernbuddhistreview.com/vol4/..._suffering.html

Apart from the yogis (or Xeno, who didn't do anything on purpose) who here has actually had so much as a whiff of (throwing oneself off a building, cutting some veins/arteries, taking a massive dose of whatever it takes, sticking their head in an oven -preferably gas, or it just takes longer...) or even just felt that way for enough time to say 'Yes, this would seriously be a better idea than anything else' and taken steps in that direction?

 

I agree with Seadog. If you feel so low that suicide seems the only thing to do then there are still other things you can do. Ideas like that aren't worth having. Ideas can be talked about at length after all this. You need to save yourself first.Call 911, get to an outpatient dept. They know what to do in emergencies. You can look at prevention after that.

 

You are worth living, otherwise you wouldn't be alive in the first place. Welcome all arguments that say otherwise. Come at me with a "Tao wants it that way" tip and I'll reply that Tao also wants you to be one with it, and I mean in a fully-intentional, without ego in the way, way. By all means kill your ego and come back after that and say you still want to top yourself and I still won't believe you so I will send you back to 911 and your therapist (or your family).

 

I can't stress enough how terrible internet can be for taking care of each other but if you are in any danger anytime now. Get assistance where you're at.

From one who has had 2 serious attempts in his lifetime, I will have to call you on your bullshit here. Why do people feel that one has to be not in their right mind to contemplate or attempt suicide? Just because to you it is not a viable option, does not mean that it is not for others. If they are not meant to die, then they won't. It's as simple as that. But wanting to push the reset button on life should never be viewed as some kind of deficiency. As I believe in a rebirth, then for me, its like deleting all this text and starting writing all over again. Death is not the end of the road, merely the start of a new one.

It never ceases to amaze me how people will look anywhere they can to try and justify their drug use. Even funnier, is the "medicinals" people have mentioned in this thread. I would love to hear how hallucinogenics are beneficial to someones health.

Tokugawa Ieyasu

No, not Theory. Investigation is mounting based on Impiricle

evidence. Support this with your intent if not your action, please..

 

These are one of Seven Issues before us now that must be addressed

You know, you people just don't know when to stfu do you? Some retarded studies by people that want there to be a conspiracy, OMG, show just that! Forget about the fact that any other researcher finds contrary evidence, you just love to take the bullshit and run with it. And every time, you just twist the knife in the side of people who lost loved ones that horrific day. But fuck them right, its all about your goddam conspiracy.

I play every now and then, but not enough to not be horrible. If I had a group to play with and learn from I may play more often.

Here is an interesting take on Weston Price:

 

http://stanford.wellsphere.com/general-med...elsewhere/32629

That's actually a nicer article than some I've seen on them.

My meditation teacher has been a monk in the Tibetan tradition and he told me they eat meat and at higher stages of practice often quite a lot to help with grounding. The Dalai Lama eats meat altough he tries to eat mostly big animals so that fewer animal lives are taken to provide him food:)

 

Dharma overground is a small and extreemly practice oriented and extreemly usefull forum run by daniel ingram. Highly recomended

"In the mid 1960s, the Dalai Lama was impressed by ethically vegetarian Indian monks and adopted a vegetarian diet for about a year and a half. Apparently he consumed primarily nuts and milk. Unfortunately, he contracted Hepatitis B and his liver was seriously damaged. For health reasons, he was advised by his personal physicians to consume meat. While he has eaten meat in moderation ever since, the Dalai Lama has repeatedly acknowledged that a vegetarian diet is a worthy expression of compassion and contributes to the cessation of the suffering of all living beings. However, he eats meat only on alternate days (six months a year). He is a semi-vegetarian, though he wishes to be a full one. By making an example of cutting his meat consumption in half, he is trying to gently influence his followers. "

Also, what exactly is "grounding" in the buddhist sense? I'll admit I don't know much about the Tibetan side of things, but I can't find it referred to anywhere.

Could you explain your comments further please

Enlightenment is not the goal of taoism. So its like asking for driving directions(using a car) to get to a space station. Driving a car == taosim, space station == enlightenment. Is that good enough? I'm kinda unsure how it was hard to understand.

Nightwatchdog, well said on your part. Milk and eggs are very nourishing. However I'm severely lactose intolerant and eggs (very high in sulphur) cause painful digestion. So I've had to make some very real decisions regarding my nutrition. Soy is not an option, the only thing left is powdered pea protein. That isn't an option either. Check the links (in full) that i'm going to post in "Honest Food Discussion". Feel free to chime in.............................On a side note, great pic for your avatar, Hsing-i (Xingyi) Drilling punch right? (looks like it.) Pretty cool,nontheless. Take care.

I'm curious why you say soy is not an option. But any legume has huge amounts of protein in it. Here is an interesting list on high protein foods from a great website Nutrition Data

On another note, the Weston Price people are known all over for having very unreliable facts in their studies. Even most people that argue against vegetarianism won't use them for reference.

Just wondering if anybody has this strong feeling. I feel like

I want to cultivate full-time. Im in TCM school now, but

thinking about dropping out to pursue enlightenment.

 

This would be such a shock to the parents. I'm the only

son out of six kids. In the asian tradition, son's are loved

so much. They tried so hard to get me, now I'm leaving

it all behind, family fortune, and all.

 

I'm thinking of Thailand.

 

I have been very successful in my chi cultivation. I want to take

it to the limit. So I wouldn't be a beginning monk

without knowledge and experience. I know pretty

much all of it, just want a place to cultivate.

 

Curious to know the pro's and con's.

I just find it strange that you are referring to enlightenment on 1 hand, but wanting to study Taosim. Thats kind like asking for driving directions to a space station.

They could still be organic and such, it all depends on what they are fed. If you want better tasting eggs, find some that aren't fed feed. That's a sure fire way to get better taste. I would just hit your local farmers market and talk to the people there.

The article touches on many kinds of expertise. It's true that the guy writing it is mostly interested in the financial and political experts, but the studies he mentions at the beginning investigate the phenomenon of expertise on a more general level. I think it's a worthy article.

 

The point is that people are fallible and even in a completely idealized discipline such as mathematics where you deal exclusively with the known (by definition) people make mistakes all the time. And what to say when you have to interact with reality that's unknown and complex?

 

Expertise makes more sense in hard sciences like chemistry and physics, but the closer you move to soft science such as biology and psychology, the more dangerous expertise becomes. Even in hard science experts make mistakes. So being careful around experts is a wise attitude no matter what.

The only reason you like the article is because you feel it validates your shit attitude towards people that actually know things that you only act as if you do. It must be sad and lonely up there on your pedestal.

dont know i aint very computer saavy, though i would guess it is when people shift their ip range, but i dont even know how to find out my ip let alone change it , but i am aware that sean has the ability to do this; i have been reading this forum since around november or so, but didnt decide to join in until feb

For someone that claims to not be computer savvy, you're having no problems with some of the jargon being tossed about and giving up how to check on yourself and GIH.

These are some of my favorite quotes...

Just out of curiosity, GIH,

Do you smoke marijuana regularly?

Crack was actually what had come to my mind.

Anyone know what a sock puppet is?

I came close to spitting tea out of my nose when I read this. I was thinking the exact same thing.

I'm of the simple mind of this. This forum is what it is. If you don't like it, or the way things work around here, get the fuck out. All you are doing with all your bullshit GIH, is making it where people don't want to post here anymore, because eventually people are going to get sick of every time they post you running into a topic and spreading your lies. So less and less new people will find what they came here looking for and leave. And then the older heads around here will start migrating to a different forum somewhere, that you and your bullshit aren't. Soon enough, you will come here and have little to bitch about because you and your cronies will be the only ones left to post.

-waste aside, nuclear concerns are overblown

On this, I will have to say you are incorrect. As someone who lived 32 miles downstream of 3 mile island in 1979, I would say they aren't overblown. I'll never forget my parents packing us up at 6am to drive to NYC to go to my grandmothers. While luckily things were kept to a "reasonable" level, it showed the potential of just how bad things could be. My dad even still has some of the radiation detection cards they had everyone post in their houses in Marietta. And I was never allowed to swim in the Susquehanna ever again after that. I'm not saying we shouldn't have nuclear power; just that we better keep a huge fear of it right up front because that is how we will make sure things are done safely.

Perhaps you should just take your opinions and fuck off? In the course of this thread you have managed to: completely misunderstand peoples intentions, say everyone that disagrees with you cant think, say that many peoples beliefs are bullshit, demand respect while giving none, and, worst to me, try and talk like you someones parent here. Almost every thread I ever see you posting in here is you bashing some kind of religion or beliefs with your own abused puppy style of bitching. You take your pain from whatever happened to you at some point, and have chosen to project it to anything that can be called a religion, and proceed to denigrate and disrespect any followers of any of them as much as you can. My opinion: you don't give a rats ass about helping someone grow spiritually. You probably joined this forum after reading 1 or 2 things you liked, and then after reading more began your crusade against your personal windmill. Well, have fun. Hopefully you and your wannabe atheist buddies get bored with trying to ruin this forum and move on shortly. We shall just have to see though.

Cow farts? Global warming was over in 1990. It stayed steady for 10 years and since then the earth has been cooling. Go to a real science site like NASA to do some research before you believe an article designed with a political agenda.

Hey, whatever lies you want to tell yourself to try and feel better. But if you don't think there is a shitload of methane from livestock, go visit a factory farm.

It was said in another thread that population expansion etc, is our biggest issue for global climate change. Lo and behold, that may not be the case. http://www.fao.org/newsroom/en/news/2006/1000448/index.html

Not really.

 

In the environmental community, human population growth has now been unavoidably identified as a root cause to environmental destruction.And Hispanics are the fastest-growing group of all Americans - due to the highest birth rates now:Now, 68% of Hispanics are Catholic, and 1/3 of US Catholics are Hispanic. So, you can say there's a link between Catholicism and higher birth rates - and thus environmental damage.

 

Therefore, I don't think it's a stretch to say that Catholicism ultimately has an environmental impact due to its traditional self-propagating stance against BC and for large families.

And what of the 100+ countries that have a higher growth rate than the US? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_count...ion_growth_rate

Get a grip man. The US is not the center of the universe. And even with the disdain I hold for catholicism, I can't lay this on their doorstep. If you wanna start getting down on the environmental debate, I'll start a new thread for it.

I found a post made by you last year. I guess you forgot what you wrote.

I, like many people here I am sure, very much come here to learn from others. But honestly, I am starting to dread opening a lot of threads here. There is so much ridiculous bullshit going on, it's really getting out of hand. So please, I ask nicely, if you don't agree with something someone says, say so. But stop the attacks on the person. If you know you disagree with most things someone says, why not just stay out of those threads instead of disrupting things for others? I love this forum, but I don't come here to see so many people bashing others.

 

You attacked me personally on 2 occasions.

 

ralis

Attacking your misinformation and downright lies isn't a personal attack. You keep talking about attacks and emotional responses and such, but you're the only one that seems to be getting hurt over this.

What you are saying does not follow in any logical sense at all. "If you said ALL governments don't work, and ALL governments are corrupt, then proceeded to spread misinformation to try and spread that same feeling; then yes, I would say you hate government." One who is pointing out the corruption in a system does not necessarily hate that system. Think outside the box instead of your own absolute point of view.

I see it has to be explained in simpler terms for you. I responded to his comment: "If I told you that I don't beleive that democracy works and that government is corrupt am I saying that I hate society? " In doing so, I gave example of the THREE things being done here that COMBINED show a hatred of religion. You haven't been merely pointing out corruption in religion, you also went so far as to call it all superstition, used only to opress by fear, etc etc. Try breaking out of your absolute point of view.

Let me state some concrete examples that you may relate to. Perhaps you will see that any belief system may have a neg. impact on large populations.

 

1. Religious doctrines against birth control: Larger populations put greater demand on limited resources, increase the use of fossil fuels and add to waste, pollution and therefor climate change.

 

2. There is a religious movement in the U.S. to give rights of person hood to blastocysts, frozen or otherwise. It is their way to overturn Roe V. Wade. This would violate the rights to privacy of millions of women. It would also stop any attempt in using the frozen blastocysts in stem cell research. The emotional, irrational fundamentalists state that they don't want unborn children used in research. These frozen blastocysts are thrown out of the labs at some point in time anyway. Another example of fear being used as a control mechanism. Once again we have religion meddling in the affairs of state.

 

Five states have already started the legal process to pass this new law.

 

3. Islamic ruled governments: A very real problem for millions of people.

 

4. Israeli Kenesit: If a party wants power, it must do the bidding of the religious party. I believe they hold 2 or 3 swing seats.

These are just a few examples.

 

If one accepts your worldview, then one needs to tolerate all religious doctrine, even though it may be religious extremism? Is that what you mean? Even when society is impacted in a neg. way? Such as the above examples?

 

ralis

1: Are you serious? You're trying to pin part of the blame for global warming on the Catholic birth control stance? I have no love for the Catholics, but that's just beyond far-fetched. If that was the case, we could just as easily blame the lack of morals that has permeated almost all of western society since the 60's, and the huge amounts of children born out of the now commonplace casual sex that people have since they no longer wait for marraige.

2: Now, I am no biologist, so I will not claim to know the technicalities of what you're speaking of. But, I will say you're full of crap on the next part. It will in no way violate the privacy of millions of women. The only thing violated when it comes to abortion, is the right to life of that unborn child. But please, try and explain how people not wanting those lives snuffed out is an example of fear as a control mechanism?

3: While I may not agree with the Islamic governments, I don't think you have the right to tell others how to govern. For all those millions that have a problem with it, there are millions that don't as well.

4: No clue. But, I do know that Israel was created as a JEWISH state. Thus it would be logical that religion would come to play in their politics.

Society is impacted in a positive and negative way by religion. Same with secularism as well. Neither one is perfect. The idea is to try and live the best life YOU can.