We are pretty much in agreement here. If one is identified with a particular mode of observation then there will always be trouble.
I think even a preference will get you into trouble sometimes.
Here's the thing. If you use the wrong tool, and each mode of observation is nothing more than a tool, you end up getting bad results.
For instance, Christian creationism is the result of trying to use theological tools to address scientific data. What you get just dosn't work in the real world. The reverse is also true. Scientific attempts to quantify "faith" or the experence of "oneness" are as absurd as creationism.
Immersing oneself into anything, to the point of identification, is perhaps not so good for you. Identification with science as truth will stunt your growth. So will identification with theology, philosophy, metaphysics, poetics, or anything else.
It should only get thrown out of a particular mode of observation when it does not fit. This is one of the areas that you have run into problems. If you try to fit poetic facts into a scientific framework you will fail, or the reverse as well. Sometime try to write a poem about a sunset using only scientific observation.
As I mentioned, entrenchment in any mode will produce the same sort of negitive effect. While you thought you were seeing a place where perhaps Scott was locked into a particular mode, what you failed to notice is that you were at least as locked into your mode in that conversation, therefore your communication was poor.
I am quite familiar with his work, though I must allow that I am less impressed with him than you seem to be.
I think that this is a laudable goal, in fact it is one that is very close to what I have devoted myself to for the last several decades. Here's the rub though, in order to find your "Rosetta stones" you must be very familiar with each modality and understand their strengths and their limitations. You must also not have an emotional attachment or repulsion to any of the modalities. In other words, you need to use the right tool for the job and not become attached to the tool.
Unless you approach the problem with that kind of clarity you will have difficulties with your understanding.
Are you really clear on it, or just miffed?
If you had applied yourself to your "Rosetta stones", you would have noticed that the RMAX model has both a linear (hierarchical) and a nonlinear (process) aspect.
When I view the list you mention, I orginize it thusly,
which allows me to understand both the linear and nonlinear relationships and to grasp why they are organized in the way they are.
The inability to think outside of a liner, sequential mode is one of the greatest weaknesses of "Western" perception. You seem to have fallen prey to that way of thinking as far as I can tell.
Since you are interested in "cross cultural" material, and since you have mentioned the enneagram in some of your other posts (though in its debased form) you might be able to use it as a tool for understanding the nonlinear aspects of process. There are links to two PDF documents on the subject contained in this article that may of use to you.
Breath Play
They may provide you with some ideas on how to adapt yourself to a more nonlinear, non-Aristotelian mode of perception.
The interesting thing is that Scott and I talk about spiritual things and their relationship to RMAX all the time, and we have never once had a cross word over the subject. I have even, from time to time, posted material of a spiritual nature to Scott's forum and had no negative feedback whatsoever.
I have to assume, because of my own experiences, that the reasons for conflict had to do with things other than your post addressing "spiritual" content.
So are you going to lock the thread since you have run out of patience?
Perhaps you are seeing me asking the same sort of question because you keep giving me answers that to not relate to the question.
From the rest of the response you have given to my question, I have to assume that you have created a false dichotomy around the idea of aging and are operating from it rather than from any direct experence. I suggest this because you seem stuck in an odd sort of "internal loop" around the idea of aging. Until you can break out of what seems to me to be a rather binary mode of thinking on the subject I don't think we can really exchange meaningful ideas.
See, at some level you understand the difference between scientific fact and theological or poetic fact, though you do seem to still be enamored with the "ghost in the machine" model.
Well, from things you have said here and elsewhere your definition of "voluminous body of meticulous scientific research" might be a bit different than my own.
As to the "cross cultural" aspect of the practice, I am dubious that you are correct for a couple of reasons.
There are no doubt any number of practices that have one or two points in common, but to assume that those points make the practice identical is rarely correct. Most often, in my experience, there is a great deal of difference between two practices from unrelated cultures. It is also a bit unlikely seeming to me that you have enough experience with enough cultures to make any meaningful comments on practices cross culturally.
Your statement, "..fact that it's a form of practice found in almost every single culture and held by nearly every wisdom tradition to be one of the most crucial forms of practice..." reads more like a "game rule" than anything else.
Also, you do not seem to have the sensitivity to cultural shifts that would be necessary to find the subtle nuances that differentiate between cultural experience. Understanding different cultural views is at the best of times a difficult process, but is impossible when you overlay your cultural bias on your experience. (you might benefit from the study of Garfinkel's work here) I don't mean this as a put down, just an observation that may be useful.
So there you have it. This is either a start to a useful dialog, or something you can get pissed about. If it is the former then perhaps something good will come of it, if the later then you and your friends here can fond some humor and enjoyment from it.
