Eric Yudelove

This does not belong here. Another post like this could well lead to your suspension from TaoBums, especially posting it here when you've already been warned, apology or not. You might have noticed that this site is not named RamakrishnaBums. You're not preaching to the choir here. Control your ego. I never read him but I'm sure Ramakrishna said something similar. Stop the my guru's better than your guru and I'm willing to fight and call you names about it bull shit. Grow up! Overcome your need to take offense on your path to spiritual growth. It's not easy, but who said it should be easy? MESY P.S. I just went back and read the posting that so upset you. There was no comparison made of Ramakrishna to pimples and hemorroids, Ramakrishna was listed as one subject that he would like to see less of on Tao Bums. I agree, no offense to Ramakrishna. When I 1st came here I thought there wasn't enough Taoism on TaoBums. Maybe I'm wrong but I would think that is what people on this site want to see for the main part. If there are postings comparing Taoist with other practices or ways of line, great. But I don't think TaoBums should be the depository for every eastern religion or philosophy out there. Perhaps there should be another category to post to on TaoBums, for other Spiritual pursuits. I don't mean to offend anyone, maybe it's all just my inclination toward clarity.

Not all the sources are so ancient. Charles Luk's book is a translation of a Taoist text less than 200 years old. The Tien Tao school I quote is from 1995, I don't know right now when "Golden Flower" was written, but it was 1st published in English in 1931. There are other sources as well. There are no Taoist texts that I know of which specify the root of the nose as the starting point of the practice. If you know of any, please inform, I would like to read them. Based on my experience as a criminal lawyer for more than 25 years, when you have 3 witnesses all saying the same thing and nothing to rebut them, the likelihood of them all seeing something different than what they were seeing, as you propose(they all were seeing the written Chinese words for "root" but thought they were seeing "tip"), is certainly slim to none. BTY, who are these teachers and instructors who knew of the mistranslation? Are they Taoists? If so what did they base their conclusions on? I'm not trying to be a smart ass(even though I am), but what you put forth is illogical if you are just assuming your argument is so, with nothing behind it but the wind. To me it's comparable to mistaking the urogenital sphincter with the tip of your dick. I don't want to go any further with this line of thinking. Give me something concrete Yuanqi. If it is Taoist related than I think we would all be interested. Walk your talk. MESY

There are a bunch of good exercises I posted above try them as well as Smiling into the Eyes.

Apparently the Yoga Sutras say that the Kutashta is not the tip of the nose, but at the root of the nose. I certainly don't know myself. If that is what they say, then that's fine with me. Go for it. However, it is not this way in the Taoist Canon and this is what we are concerned with on this site. If the Yoga Sutra practices are of interest to you, please start another string of messages and you can post here where it is located. We are all free to believe what we want, if we live in a reasonably free society. This string is particularly dedicated to beginning Taoist Yoga. Please respect this. Respect is something that helps us live in peace with each other. We can be different, yet the same, without having to fight over it. When it comes to the Spirit, there is no place for fighting. If you mean to inform us, then this is appreciated. If you mean to correct us, then you should not participate. The system I put forth here is based on authentic and ancient Taoist books and they are just as valid in their way as the Yoga Sutras are in their way. They are 2 different systems. Thank You, MESY MESY

Dear Joakim: It's OK to do the message, but hold off visulizing in the Tan Tien until you get "100 Days". You get to the Tan Tien within the first few weeks of practice. The Microcosmic Orbit comes some time later and it is a very organized approach, based on the system used by Charles Luk in "Taoist Yoga". It will all be covered. With me helping you, it should progress smoothly and easily. MESY

Visualizing, or just using your imagination, takes place at the tip of the nose. If you have trouble with it, don't do it for now. MESY

Hello Tumoessence: For those of you following this; add this to your practice- Visualize the Sun at the tip of your nose. Then set your controls for the heart of the sun. I am really glad that I stuck around to teach a little Taoism to you. I was surprised to realize that there was no awareness of the Tip of the Nose Technique in what I would have to call Western Taoism. It's so easy to overlook, but it is the technique that really separates Taoist meditation from other meditation. If you've never done it I can tell you that it's like adding an afterburner to your engine. Move your point of concentration up to the bridge of the nose-little bump about 2/3 the way up the nose. Maintain an awareness of the tip of the nose. Feel the connection between the 2 points. Your eyes are barely open now as your eyes look at the bridge of your nose. I found that once I got past the discomfort, it really turned the Taoist practices into something with some fun in it. It boosted everything I knew into a higher gear or dimension. Well anyway, you know I didn't make it up and you learned something important. Pass it on. Blessings, Health and Long Life MESY

It is at the tip of the nose, not the top or root of the nose. I didn't discover anything, what I write about was there for anyone to read. Don't mix the systems up. You've posted some other messages, but I really can't figure out their meaning, they're sort of ambiguous-no offense. Please clarify. Thank You. Mesy

We all have to find our own Way. MESY

Dear Wrenter: I've heard of all sorts of results and reactions. It sounds to me that you are activating the 3rd eye point. Just as our internal organs vibrate using the 6 Healing Sounds, so too the mid-eye point can vibrate. I've never gotten any negative feedback from people who followed my approach.(If there are I just don't know about them). What has your practice consisted of up till now? How long have you been doing Taoist internal work? How far have you advanced in the system you use? I am very pleased that some of you are getting some significant results. One technique that might help your practice is to visualize or imagine the tip of a finger touching the tip of your nose, this could help you "locate" the tip. You can actually touch the point first if you like. On a more general note: This practice if done correctly should radically change the quality of your meditaion sessions. I really can't imagine starting any other way. I put my concentration on the tip of my nose and I'm right there in a meditative state with the energy ready to flow. The tip of the nose just sort of holds you in place for further exercises, so it is not the final destination, it is the starting point. But it works just as well for quiet meditation as well as "active" meditation. If you continue having discomfort in the eyes, I suggest massaging the muscles around the eyes with finger tips or knuckle, pulling in on the eye muscles(simultataneously pulling up on part of-anus, perineum, testicles- lips of the vagina and 2 front gates - or all of the PC muscles simultaneously around the perineum). Also and very important, Getting The Tear Out- raise pointer finger tip about 8 inches in front of your eyes. Open eyes wide, stare at top of fingertip, breath slowly pausing between each breath, and keeping eyes wide(glaring) open until the eyes begin to tear. This one can really burn when getting started but is a great technique for clearing impurities from the muscles around the eyes and calming the eye muscles. These are not the same kind of tears you produce when you cry. Do after eye message. Keep Up the Good Work, MESY

Remember what happened to Humpty Dumpty. It's not a good idea until you are well grounded. Right now we're still working at the tip of the nose. Just pretend that it's more important than your crown for 1 week. Hey, what's a week? MESY

Just to make things a little easier for you, here is my explanation of the tip of the nose practice, which I had previously posted. If you still have questions after reading it, contact me. First of all as a reference point of how to start the practice, it makes it easy to begin. It is an excellent method for reestablishing the balance in your eye and facial muscles, which in time leads to a better left brain-right brain balance. Overlooking the necessity of reestablishing this balance could continue to be a constant source of distraction to your meditation, although you would probably be unaware of the source of this distraction. With a little practice, the technique should feel quite comfortable. Once staring at the tip of the nose becomes the starting point of your meditation, you will virtually instantly go into a meditative state when you do it. It has a real quality of closing out the external world and bring you inside. It also is a great tool for quieting internal dialog. Even when I am dealing with the external world, simply putting my awareness on the tip of my nose results in an instant shift of consciousness that can literally be felt throughout my body, as well as having a general calming and focusing effect. There is not that much in the available literature that directly tells you why to do it, it mostly just tells you to start there. It is the starting off point for learning what is variously referred to as The Backward Flowing Method in "The Secret of the Golden Flower", Silent Sitting in "Tien Tao Chi Kung Internal Work", I call it Sitting and Stilling the Mind in "100 Days". In "Tien Tao Chi Kung-Introduction to Chi Kung" from the Chinese National Chi Kung Institute it states that staring at the tip of the nose is a start off spot "to awaken the heat sensation of chi energy" and will lead to an increased ability to concentrate "on the lower abdomen area, cultivating the positive fire." Charles Luk in "Taoist Yoga" states, "Before sitting in meditation, it is important to put an end to all rising thoughts and to loosen garments and belt to relax the body and avoid interferring with the free circulation of blood. After sitting the body should be (senseless) like a log and the heart (mind) unstirred like cold ashes. The eyes should look down and fix on the tip of the nose; they should not be shut completely to avoid dullness and confusion; neither should they be wide open to prevent spirit from wandering outside. They should be fixed on the tip of the nose with one's attention concentrated on the spot between them; and in time the light of vitality (chi) will manifest. This is the best way to get rid of all thoughts at the start when preparing the elixer of immortality." "The Secret of the Golden Flower" states: "The two founders of Buddhism and Taoism have taught that one should look at the tip of one's nose. But they did not mean that one should fasten one's thoughts to the tip of the nose. Neither did they mean that, while the eyes were looking at the tip of the nose, the thoughts should be concentrated on the yellow middle. Wherever the eye looks, the heart is directed also. How can it be directed at the same time upward (yellow middle) and downward (tip of the nose), or alternatively, so that it is now up, now down? All that means confusing the finger which points to the moon with the moon itself. What then is really meant by this? The expression 'tip of the nose' is very cleverly chosen. The nose must serve the eyes as a guide-line. If one is not guided by the nose, either one opens wide the eyes and looks into the distance, so that the nose is not seen, or the lids shut too much, so that the eyes close, and again the nose is not seen. But when the eyes are open too wide, one makes the mistake of directing them outward, thereby one is easily distracted. If they are closed too much, one makes the mistake of letting them turn inward, whereby one easily sinks into a dreamy reverie. Only when the eyelids are lowered properly halfway is the tip of the nose seen in just the right way. Therefore it is taken as a guide-line. The main thing is to lower the eyelids in the right way, and then allow the light to stream in of itself; without effort, wanting the light to stream in concentratedly. Looking at the tip of the nose serves only as the beginning of the inner concentration, so that the eyes are brought into the right direction for looking , and then are held to the guide-line: after that, one can let it be. That is the way that a mason hangs up a plumb-line. As soon as he has hung it up, he guides his work by it without continually bothering himself to look at the plumb-line." "One looks with both eyes at the tip of the nose, sits upright and in a comfortable position, and holds the heart to the center in the midst of conditions. In Taoism it is called the yellow middle, in Buddhism the center of the midst of conditions. The two are the same. It does not necessarily mean the middle of the head. It is only a matter of fixing one's thinking on the point which lies exactly between the two eyes. Then all is well. The light streams in of it's own accord. It is not necessary to direct the attention to the central castle. In these few words the most important thing is contained." I describe these methods in detail in the first few weeks of "100 Days". I add as a starting point staring at a spot before the eyes before drawing the concentration to the tip of the nose, this is for the purpose of helping beginners, I don't think it is essential, but it really does work well. However, a much more elaborate procedure is found in Tien Tao Chi Kung Internal Work. Here one 1st) Stares at a point 6 feet directly in front of you, 2) Shifts and stops the eyes at a point on a 45 degree angle down and in front of you at a distance of 3 feet, 3) Shifting and fixing the eyes at a point directly between your feet and 4) Concentrating the eyes on the tip of the nose. Aside from it's initial discomfort, the main drawback to staring at the tip of one's nose, is that it is probably something you would not want to be seen doing in public. As Charles Luk puts it, "you will look like a stupid man." Well you might look stupid, but you will be performing one of the most intelligent tasks on the planet. During my years studying with Master Chia, I often wondered why he never taught this method. Finally about 3 years after he named me a master(he gave me a Certificate by the way), he finally taught this method as part of his ultimate level of teaching internal alchemy, the Sealing of the 5 Senses. I really got to wondering why he had taken more than 22 years of teaching in the USA to get to the point that he considered "the end" while the great Taoist literature considered it to be the beginning? It was the way it was taught to him I guess, but it was the point at which I took to the road and the mountains and he went home to Thailand. I hope I have sufficiently clarified this issue for you. MESY

Dear Markern: Judging from what Red Dragon has told me, I don't think he would benefit from deeply resting meditations at this time. Learning to tame the mind is the key to freedom. Stick with one system and work on it. Don't take a little from here and a little from there, you will ultimately wind up nowhere, confused or delusional. Start on the tip of your nose and read the instructions in the Shen portion of weeks 1-3 in "100 Days". I just gave you the key to the mystery of Taoist Yoga and you want to do Yoga Nidra. I'm not knocking him, don't know anything about him except just like the time Dian bought me a beatiful statue of a mythical Gryphon. I put it in my Taoist Rock Garden near the old Taoist Fu Shih. The next day it wasn't on top of the large rock I had firmly placed it on. I looked around and saw the body of the Gryphon lying in front of the stone. I looked behind the stone and saw his wings. Whoa, I thought how can the two parts of the Gryphon be on opposite sides of the rock? I did a little more investigating the scene and found that the Gryphon's two arms were missing. One had a red ball cemented to the hand. The next day I found the marble sized red ball on the other side of the bridge. Far. I never found the arms. This got me really suspicious so I finally asked Fu Shih what the hell he was doing? He gave me an inscrutible smile and all he would say was "No b'long here." MESY

'Eric Yudelove' Here's a picture of the entrance to the Taoist rock garden(still working on the Spring cleanup) and a view of Mt. Washington from our driveway in New Hampshire. And Dear Fire Dragon, It's a sad commentary on our times when a Fire Dragon cannot recognize a Water Dragon. That's Lola our baby Long Island Water Dragon in the waterfall picture, not a frog. Her father Yoshio is now heartbroken for his daughter and is considering sending her to Costa Rica for plastic surgery when she's old enough to fly. MESY

[quote name='rain' date='20 March 2010 - 04:32 PM'

[quote name='Fire Dragon' date='20 March 2010 - 12:31 .

First of all as a reference point of how to start the practice, it makes it easy to begin. It is an excellent method for reestablishing the balance in your eye and facial muscles, which in time leads to a better left brain-right brain balance. Overlooking the necessity of reestablishing this balance could continue to be a constant source of distraction to your meditation, although you would probably be unaware of the source of this distraction. With a little practice, the technique should feel quite comfortable. Once staring at the tip of the nose becomes the starting point of your meditation, you will virtually instantly go into a meditative state when you do it. It has a real quality of closing out the external world and bring you inside. It also is a great tool for quieting internal dialog. Even when I am dealing with the external world, simply putting my awareness on the tip of my nose results in an instant shift of consciousness that can literally be felt throughout my body, as well as having a general calming and focusing effect. There is not that much in the available literature that directly tells you why to do it, it mostly just tells you to start there. It is the starting off point for learning what is variously referred to as The Backward Flowing Method in "The Secret of the Golden Flower", Silent Sitting in "Tien Tao Chi Kung Internal Work", I call it Sitting and Stilling the Mind in "100 Days". In "Tien Tao Chi Kung-Introduction to Chi Kung" from the Chinese National Chi Kung Institute it states that staring at the tip of the nose is a start off spot "to awaken the heat sensation of chi energy" and will lead to an increased ability to concentrate "on the lower abdomen area, cultivating the positive fire." Charles Luk in "Taoist Yoga" states, "Before sitting in meditation, it is important to put an end to all rising thoughts and to loosen garments and belt to relax the body and avoid interferring with the free circulation of blood. After sitting the body should be (senseless) like a log and the heart (mind) unstirred like cold ashes. The eyes should look down and fix on the tip of the nose; they should not be shut completely to avoid dullness and confusion; neither should they be wide open to prevent spirit from wandering outside. They should be fixed on the tip of the nose with one's attention concentrated on the spot between them; and in time the light of vitality (chi) will manifest. This is the best way to get rid of all thoughts at the start when preparing the elixer of immortality." "The Secret of the Golden Flower" states: "The two founders of Buddhism and Taoism have taught that one should look at the tip of one's nose. But they did not mean that one should fasten one's thoughts to the tip of the nose. Neither did they mean that, while the eyes were looking at the tip of the nose, the thoughts should be concentrated on the yellow middle. Wherever the eye looks, the heart is directed also. How can it be directed at the same time upward (yellow middle) and downward (tip of the nose), or alternatively, so that it is now up, now down? All that means confusing the finger which points to the moon with the moon itself. What then is really meant by this? The expression 'tip of the nose' is very cleverly chosen. The nose must serve the eyes as a guide-line. If one is not guided by the nose, either one opens wide the eyes and looks into the distance, so that the nose is not seen, or the lids shut too much, so that the eyes close, and again the nose is not seen. But when the eyes are open too wide, one makes the mistake of directing them outward, thereby one is easily distracted. If they are closed too much, one makes the mistake of letting them turn inward, whereby one easily sinks into a dreamy reverie. Only when the eyelids are lowered properly halfway is the tip of the nose seen in just the right way. Therefore it is taken as a guide-line. The main thing is to lower the eyelids in the right way, and then allow the light to stream in of itself; without effort, wanting the light to stream in concentratedly. Looking at the tip of the nose serves only as the beginning of the inner concentration, so that the eyes are brought into the right direction for looking , and then are held to the guide-line: after that, one can let it be. That is the way that a mason hangs up a plumb-line. As soon as he has hung it up, he guides his work by it without continually bothering himself to look at the plumb-line." "One looks with both eyes at the tip of the nose, sits upright and in a comfortable position, and holds the heart to the center in the midst of conditions. In Taoism it is called the yellow middle, in Buddhism the center of the midst of conditions. The two are the same. It does not necessarily mean the middle of the head. It is only a matter of fixing one's thinking on the point which lies exactly between the two eyes. Then all is well. The light streams in of it's own accord. It is not necessary to direct the attention to the central castle. In these few words the most important thing is contained." I describe these methods in detail in the first few weeks of "100 Days". I add as a starting point staring at a spot before the eyes before drawing the concentration to the tip of the nose, this is for the purpose of helping beginners, I don't think it is esential, but it really does work well. However a much more elaborate procedure is found in Tien Tao Chi Kung Internal Work. Here one 1st) Stares at a point 6 feet directly in front of you, 2) Shifts and stops the eyes at a point on a 45 degree angle down and in front of you at a distance of 3 feet, 3) Shifting and fixing the eyes at a point directly between your feet and 4) Concentrating the eyes on the tip of the nose. Aside from it's initial discomfort, the main drawback to staring at the tip of one's nose, is that it is probably something you would not want to be seen doing in public. As Charles Luk puts it, "you will look like a stupid man." Well you might look stupid, but you will be performing one of the most intelligent tasks on the planet. During my years studying with Master Chia, I often wondered why he never taught this method. Finally about 3 years after he named me a master(he gave me a Certificate by the way lol), he finally taught this method as part of his ultimate level of teaching internal alchemy, the Sealing of the 5 Senses. I really got to wondering why he had taken more than 22 years of teaching in the USA to get to the point that he considered "the end" while the great Taoist literature considered it to be the beginning? It was the way it was taught to him, but it was the point at which I took to the road and the mountains and he went home to Thailand. I hope I have sufficiently clarified this issue for you. MESY

I will soon. Meanwhile, Today I was getting the Taoist Rock Garden in shape for Spring, which starts tomorrow.It winds around for about 2/3 the length of a football field. Once you cross the bridge, the laws of nature and physics, as are commonly understood, no longer apply. MESY

Dear Fire Dragon: As I previously wrote, it is NOT a misinterpretation or mistranslation. It is a very, very important part of the practice. The discomfort you experience has to do with the imbalance of muscles in the left and right side of your face and eyes. One purpose of the exercise is to work out this imbalance. I cannot begin to tell you how important I believe this step to be. It is the launching point for all of Taoist internal alchemy. Ignoring it because it makes you feel dicey will probably add wasted years to your practice. There is no more important stuff later. It's sort of like trying to read a textbook when you never learned how to read in the 1st place. ESY

Dear Michael & Others of Interest: The teachings are quite clear. Staring at the tip of the nose is a starting point for many schools of both Taoist and Buddhist Meditation. See for instance Page 1 of Charles Luk's "Taoist Yoga" and page 35 of Wilhelm's "The Secret of the Golden Flower". These are 2 of the classic and earliest translations of authentic Taoist texts into English. Mantak Chia eventually gets to this technique in the very advanced alchemical formula "Sealing of the Five Senses". Personally I never understood why he waited that long. It is the major difference between the way he & I introduce Taoist meditation. ESY

This is part of an e-mail I sent to Mal a few days ago: "Dian was really shocked and appalled at the behavior on TTB. I wasn't. But what's the point? There are some good people there but overall I was getting nothing from it but flack. Why make myself a target to the lowest common denominator? I have other things to occupy my time. Forget myself, I really couldn't believe the attacks on Mantak Chia. I 1st knew him when he barely had a pot to piss in. I can't say that he's the greatest thing since white bread, but hey, a little respect. The Internet has seemed to have thrown civility & good manners down the toilet. It is a sad commentary on our times when people who call themselves Taoists behave like self-righteous spoiled nasty brats." This is new: I found nothing to learn here, nothing to share here. I invite anyone who would like to share or seek some advice to e-mail me at [email protected]. But this place has become a cesspool for too many who think "My Tao is better than your Tao" or "Your Tao doesn't live up to My expectations of the Real Tao" or "My Tao Master is a real Tao Master but your Tao Master is an Asshole" or "My Tao Master has sublime lineage reaching back to the Mongol Invasion but your Tao Master has no lineage and must have must have decended from the Mother Ship" or" My Tao is more Spiritual than Your Tao, so you're an asshole." Tao is something to live in harmony with, not something you think you can possess or hold over someone's head like a sword." I'm sure this post will again open me up to further attacks, from the Peanut Gallery, that's what I've come to expect here. But hey, I've been attacked by the best of them, people who really wanted to hurt me or worse and I'm still standing. I live the life I choose to live, I don't have to live by your rules. That's enough Tao for me. What's enough Tao for each of you is something you'll have to discover for yourself. Eric Yudelove