Trunk

I agree Sonnon does not really talk about the heaven/earth/man trinity, although he instead calls this ... terms like freedom from fear reacticvity

"Freedom from fear reactivity" is cool, and working the fascia like he does is bound to do some very significant and effective emotional clearing, and improvement in health and chi flow. But that is not heaven~earth integration. Its not that he's calling heaven~earth integration something else; its that heaven~earth integration isn't in his system. And its not even about talking about it or not: Its about whether the structure of the exercises promote heaven~man~earth integration, and they don't. He doesn't have the knowlegde about practices (movements, postures, attention) that integrate those forces through the human tissues. And I'm not knocking Sonnon's work, he is really onto some great stuff. He's just not a tai chi master nor a xing yi master.

I don't really talk about Clubell training much here, I guess because for some reason I've unconsciously felt it's not as related to Taoist cultivation as some of Sonnon's other work.

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Seems to me that Sonnon's work, including clubells, works on the joints and fascia. Clubells (though I haven't tried them, I suppose) through the swinging do work the joints and fascia, opening as well as strengthening.

Taoist work also works the joints and fascia. Jing, or nourishment, or whatever stuff, goes through the layers of fascia~tendon~ligment~bone. The thing with Taoist work, that Sonnon doesn't do, is do it through exercises that integrate heaven~man~earth, so that those layers mentioned get heaven~earth integration. This is a large part of what makes the Taoist internal martial arts so powerful.

I've been thinking about getting clubells, as I've started swimming a lot and want to keep my shoulders loose. If any of you find links to clubell video clips, please post them!

Trunk

--- edit later in the day ---

I went and bought a simple 10 lb dumbell at the sporting goods store. Since my interest is really simple right now (very gently stretch my shoulder joints), I think dumbells can do it. I found that 10 lbs is even on the hefty side for me, beginning, with this small goal. Turns out my housemate had a 5 and an 8 lb, and they worked great. Nice. (Spending $20 instead of $200.)

When I try it seriously, not celebately,  having sex w/ out ejaculation, it makes me even more randy, more sexually charged.  Its seems easier to just go straight out celebate.  Not that I can or care to do that now.

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1. Exchange of sexual energy with your partner helps to balance and take the edge off.

2. At least sometimes have intercourse culminate in the yab yum position, that lends to more bliss-to-stillness resolution of intercourse.

3. Take time off between sexually active times to return to solitary stillness (through whatever phases of physical work-out, etc, qi gong, meditation that you have to). Unless - in the long term - you get fluent at returning to stillness, cultivation doesn't lead to anything.

Trunk

Continuing to work with the yoga ball, and exploring breathing more into the belly while in that posture. Getting a lot out of it.

Thanks, again, for the tip towards this approach to bridging (that i used to think was the "sissy way" ).

, and you get new bones every 10 years, you get new gut organs every 13-15 years.

..

That makes it fun to think in terms of decades of practice.

I need more advise on how to relax my abdominal muscles.

All this stuff.

Got a yoga ball yesterday, for supported bridges.

Works good for me.

Thanks to you guys for the tip.

I say we make this a seperate secion of TaoBums, where people list their favorite practices and can update it and stuff.

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Good idea!

Maybe this could be in the Articles section, as an article. That'd work!

I gotta add Yi Swallows Chi to my list, between core channel and the 10,000 other things.

I notice that much of my breathing restriction has to do with my spine being quite "stiff".

..

any cures you know of?

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This helped me process jing through the spine better.

9 bottle Wind

Do you breath into the abdomen area or more concentrate on raising the chest area?

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The 9 bottle wind is similar to "vase breathing" in the 6 Yogas of Naropa system. The point of alternate nostril work is to open the thrusting channels, left and right. (Later, through meditation, the energies of those opened & filled channels are brought together into the central channel.) If that's the case, then you'd breathe down the left side when inhaling through the left nostril, straight down through the left middle, through the major organs on that side as deep as you can go. Similarly, right side for right nostril.

Glad to hear a correction if I'm wrong on this.

I've been doing standing ab.wheel, up to a wall, lately. I saw the trick of doing it up to a wall in an article at dragondoor.com; a useful idea, i think, as i'm less likely to hurt my face this way.

What has really surprised me, though, is how much the standing ab.wheel exercise processes sexual energy that's in the stomach region, and even into the lower tan tien as well. Hadn't expected that, and its really effective. Kneeling ab.wheel, I didn't find to have that effect at all.

So, it gets entry in the "Dealing with the Force" methods, along with squats and kettlebell swings. (As always, comments, constructive criticism, & ?'s welcome.) I'd be surprised if there are many other exercises that ever get in that essay; those 3 cover it from pretty much all the angles.

If any of yous guys was to try it, I'd be listenin & curious.

Trunk

p.s. If someone wants to take a picture of your self doing one of these up to a wall, that I could paste into the essay - that'd be cool. (I'd ask that you choose a distance from the wall that might be reasonably accessable to an average joe. My website isn't geared to the extreme athlete.)

Was it Noni Juice he's drinking???

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It was definately the same unique noni-juice bottle,

so - yup!

so. You consider it beneficial or something to worry about?

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Generally beneficial, imo.

If it gets to be too much, cut back on your practices for a little while.

During formal practice (at least over the course of your week or so), its important to work out your whole body, at various levels, pretty thoroughly - which will gradually diminish the expressions being of kinks. Its all of it, though: Grace, kinks, and just good fun.

Also, eat healthy.

Part of the joy of it was the madly diverse group of slightly warped people who came to learn together, play together, and enjoy each other.

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Welcome aboard!

I hated Vipassana. I hated how...

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lol!

The beauty, and great advantage, of these online discussions is that it really takes half a dozen or so very different views to get a rounded look at any topic. Dig it.

Wow. Excellent, excellent post.

Thanks for sharing.

What do you guys feel are the over all best practices you have learned? Like the top 5 or top 3 list of the best of the best?

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Top 10,001:

1. I'd have to say that core channel practice (deep-centers, bindus) and how that connects with emptiness & light is #1.

2. In my current view, the 10,000 practices are in support of, leading to, that. And are all good.

Peter,

Nice post!

sun and moon a helluva lot already in the core channels

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Interesting line of investigation.

I look forward to reading your future posts (if you are so inclined) as things progress.

Trunk

Check out how close he is to the water. He has a lot of spacial control of his body with his tumbling. It's pretty amazing.

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Its impressive how effortless much of it is, at that level. The coordination, leverage, take over. His handsprings, etc, do themselves to a large degree. He's not muscling-through a bunch of heavy clunking around. Wow.

(And i saw that noni-juice bottle at the end! )

...during standing meditation.

Also, rather than having my breath centered in my lower belly, I find that my breath appears kind of shallow and centered in my chest (or perhaps both the belly and my chest).  ...

I should note that in everyday life I'm normally a belly breather.  I also don't think this has to do with tension, since I seem to breath this way during standing regardless of whether I'm tense or not.  Indeed, the MORE relaxed I am, the less I seem to breath and the "shallower" my breath becomes.

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There are the meditative states where breath stops, or sometimes nearly stops as one approaches those states. It goes to a very rich deep place. Could be that you are going that direction during standing meditation. (?)

In any case, what you are doing seems to be working for your body, and that's the main thing. When your body is ready for something else, things'll shift, and then something else will be right.

There is some physical integration that comes from doing the lower belly breathing. It does tap into the more physical layers, and so integrates.. whatever you're working with, with that. For me, the lower tan tien is more and more the pivot point from working with earth energy through the legs and the higher energies that are drawn from the upper.

It could be that some moving work, especially in which your legs are moving (and so the ltt engaged) could be complementary work in which its more natural for you to do lower belly breathing.

Trunk

The new local phone book arrived on my doorstep today, with Ronald Reagan on the cover! I couldn't believe it, I burst out laughing.

Found a picture of my American hero on the web, printed it up, glued it over RR's mug. Nifty color printers.

Trunk

I am interested in which way people do standing meditation.

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Lately I've been standing in very natural stance, arms at side - a little out to the sides (what Yoda has referred to as "gun-slinger" posture).

I keep my breathing centered in the lower tan tien, but I allow my meditation to migrate amongst the three centers (power, love, wisdom).. Allowing the energy to move there as seems natural, doing some refinement at the center, and resolution into the deep-center of each. I find that this approach is providing much easier, more fluent, and more coherent, integration.

I've been thinking for some years, now, suspiciously - that all the time just on one center (lower tan tien) is a somewhat silly approach. Experience is confirming, for me, that a three-center approach is more fruitful. Allowing for the fact that the lower energies are denser, so there is generally more time spent refining the lower center. And that the lower center is a good basis for breathing. But to include the love and wisdom center energies in the curriculum, in the blend, is just balanced and healthy.

Trunk

could a person meet with relative success if they stood in Wu Chi and then practiced their own forms, creating a style of Tai Chi developed to their own personal style?

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Experimentation is a very important part of learning, whether entirely on your own or as part of studying within a system. And, if you're on your own, its likely that you could enjoy some learning, some integration. And its worth while, rewarding even; there are lots and lots of people cultivating on their own (well, at least qi gong and cultivation in general).

But what gets produced, compared to learning within an authentic lineage of Tai Chi (or Xing Yi, or Ba Gua), there's no comparison. There just isn't. And I'm not just saying the orthodox line, here; this is based on observation.

not to mention the childish mine is bigger than yours in the first paragraph of his home page...

 

"... Don't waste your time with any other Chi Kung. Mine is the best! GJC"

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Yeah, and that's just the tip of the iceburg with this guy. He goes beyond beyond, and just keeps on going.

He had a hilarious promo video on his site some years ago (maybe still there?). He was promoting his qi gong services with 10 times the vigor and a fraction of the class of a used car salesman. I showed it to my teacher at the time (who is a very funny guy), and we laughed our asses off. It was like an SNL take-off on a qi gong ad. Astonishing that it was really an ad in earnest.

Wow. This is the first guy I think I've just railed away at re: character online.

I don't like this guy. Dat's a fact, Jack.