Trunk

Basically, Chia is: selling sensation and marketing it as "Taoism". This is done by abandoning the deeper principles of Taoism (which must be taught first in order for this stuff to work), and promoting some of the more sensational (very advanced, much later) results. Unfortunately, the practices (and advanced 'fun' stuff) without the deeper stuff first is a sure recipe for injury. Results: Good for business, bad for students, bad for Taoism, bad for the world.

Yoda, I don't know of any book or video that is a good reference on this stuff. To really get this, really, really - you can't get it from a book or video. You have to find a teacher of an internal martial art, in a lineage where actually effective heaven~man~earth techniques were passed on, where the teacher is skilled at teaching, and you must study for a long time under personal instruction. Beyond that, it is likely that you will have to study diligently like this, through several different systems under several different teachers (or sometimes the same, or closely related, material through several different teachers)... each time being careful to seek out a good teacher who is teaching something worth while. (This implies some discrimination, patience, wisdom, on the part of the student.) Same goes for enlightenment path. (And they all do go together: internal martial arts, Chinese medicine, philosophy, enlightenment path - all are intertwined.) You can see the aggressive people on this board are doing just that: they diligently learn what they can from one source, then keep progressing. ******** There are simple things that you can do on your own, that can produce beneficial results - but not of the measure from the above. Much of this you are already doing: standing practices, and letting whatever goes through you go through you. Some of the really simple things at my site to activate tendons, joints, etc. Just don't mistake that you're getting the measure of things possible as with a really good teacher. I'd stay away from any really exotic extreme practice. Chia's works, in general, are so messed up - its really amazing. btw, I think that Plato made another real score with Sonnon's material. I don't have time to really get into it (so i can't say much for sure), but i've checked it out a little. The pathway of integration for the internals is fascia-tendon-joint-bone. The joints are the nexus where those things come together, and Sonnon, by emphasizing joint health... I think that probably he's presenting things accessible through video that could be very beneficial to over-all health, emotional reconfiguration, developing some really interesting strength in the body that will help a person age well. He doesn't have the heaven-earth part in there, but, like i said.. you'd just have to find a really good teacher of internal martial arts for an in-person relationship. Sonnon is exploring a potentially very interesting and beneficial path. There's a lot more to say, but i've already put a lot into this reply. One note, that self-refinement is definately part of this process, part of heaven~man~earth integration. Only shallow development available without self-refinement. You have to yield to the greater forces as they re-shape your body on many levels - to do that you have to let go your your self, your own pettiness. (Not always easy.) Trunk

Hagar is correct. Correct marrow washing practices invigorate the liquid part of the bones: the marrow, where blood is produced. The bones become healthier, stronger, yet they feel softer. I suspect that this is what is meant by "jade bones". This can be done without any genital weight-lifting at all. Internal martial artists do it by integrating their body with the forces of heaven and earth, which naturally drive the nourishing essences through the layers of the body (including the bones). The bone practices are essentially a heaven~man~earth practice. Any other auxilliary technique is just supposed to assist with what naturally occurs through that dynamic. Its just that Chia's presentation is so cut off from any authentic understanding of the process, that we're left with a very distorted view. Damn shame.

For those times that you choose to sleep in, try ankle rotations while lying in bed. Either hang your feet off of the end of the bed, or lie on your stomach and raise your ankles from your knees. The rotations assist in breaking up stagnation, not just ankles but also lower tan tien. Could help you bounce outta the sleeping-in-stage much quicker.

I find "threaded" view to be excellent when looking at individual threads, but generally gets in the way (worthless) when looking at a whole section. imo, sections should default to be opened "flat view", while individual threads should default to open "thread view". I'd hate to see "thread view" go away altogether.

dao-Dao-DAO

Serious fellow, going through very real deep transformation. Getting through such work is genuinely harrowing, there is no getting around that fact. Its not just a matter of a better attitude, or taking a no-self approach, (while obviously those are important). Excellent post!

I think a "Training Blogs" section is a really good idea. I think that, too easily, our view of our practices degenerates into structured theory about what "should" be happening in our practice, molding our experience to fit into ideals (as if any of us really knows what's going on), and then - based on all of that non-sense - what we think we should do about it. Manipulations of what is, into what we want, what we hope for, what we think ought to be happening. What is tends to get lost in that process. (I mean, obviously, i like theorizing, too... and am not ready to give it up altogether.) I think a simple "here's what's going on with me" orientation could often be a lot more honest. I'm for a "Training Blogs" section.

Yup. Your whole situation and descriptions, well said, describes very well what i've been working with with my configuration.

I've had (maybe still do) the same problems. I've found that I like cross-training. Its healthier for me, on all levels. Also, I change. I mean, that's the purpose of this stuff, right? Different practices become appropriate as we change. Its just that most of us have no clue as to 'where this is going', so it can be quite frustratingly, repetitively, disorienting... doesn't fit our plans of how we thought we were going to change. A lot of things lead to other things. I was doing my "Fabulous Four" routine for a while (really enjoyed it), got a lot out of it, and then found that i couldn't get the integration to happen really smoothly through my lower tan tien - so i'm re-exploring a whole variety of lower tan tien breathing methods, from a much richer perspective than last time. I figure that if I'm doing something to blend layers and up & down, and I'm headed in the general direction of heaven-body-earth integration and of emptiness, then I don't sweat it. (Though, there are admittedly some things I'd like to have happen faster than they are.) :? Trunk

The deep-center definately has importance as effective-means, imv. For two reasons. 1) The subtle structure of the deep-center has an especially direct... wiring that connects to light and emptiness. Once you start moving away from the center into the slight periphery, the subtle mechanics naturally try and "work" the world, manipulate it, shape it as experienced is received: all of which is basically distortion. The deep-center is a no-spin-zone in our subtle form. 2) If you have profound exposure to emptiness, without a sufficiently coherent center, your energetics disperse. Both in terms of nourishment (which is, over the long term, depleting) and - in later more advanced work - the subtle form can literally come apart, all unraveled, as a result of exposure to states of a level of purity that the body is not ready for. So, by cultivating a profound deep-center, nourishment is naturally drawn in all the way through the layers of the bodies (longevity, both physically and subtly), and you are able to do advanced work without seriously losing your marbles. Direct openness meditations are, of course, of value. Its just that the deep-center methods of accessing openness are also quite important. Trunk

Nice post! (The print-out didn't work out so good straight from this forum, so i saved the jpgs and printed them out directly.) Nostril-breathing especially connects to the thrusting vessels, ime (and as noted in your posts). The thrustings + core vessel stuff is the key work in the northern-Indian / Tibetan traditions.

Can anyone fix the below html references, and tell me how its done? I tried it two different ways... with the <>'s and modified with []'s, neither worked. ******************************** Yoda, Way to go. The tendon-changing material really helps get the H~E flow through certain layers of tissues. Glad you hooked onto it. Thanks. I think it'd be a fun thing for me to work on, and i appreciate your tips - as i'm a real newbie to pistols. I did put a reference to them at the bottom of <A href=http://www.precisiondocs.com/~altaoism/IS2TendonChanging.htm#Squats>squats</A> section, btw, as i think they've gotta be good for people who are ready for them. (But too intense for me to include directly on my site.) Trunk

Yoda, Way to go. The tendon-changing material really helps get the H~E flow through certain layers of tissues. Glad you hooked onto it. Thanks. I think it'd be a fun thing for me to work on, and i appreciate your tips - as i'm a real newbie to pistols. I did put a reference to them at the bottom of squats section, btw, as i think they've gotta be good for people who are ready for them. (But too intense for me to include directly on my site.) Trunk p.s. Updated the download version of my site. Thanks, RJ, for the html correction.

:shock: Works for me. :idea: ! Thanks, dirt bag. :twisted: You tip plus the URL button above the typing space... sorted out. Gonna go re-post to The Little Green One.

Yoda, Way to go. The tendon-changing material really helps get the H~E flow through certain layers of tissues. Glad you hooked onto it. Thanks. I think it'd be a fun thing for me to work on, and i appreciate your tips - as i'm a real newbie to pistols. I did put a reference to them at the bottom of <A href=http://www.precisiondocs.com/~altaoism/IS2TendonChanging.htm#Squats>squats</A> section, btw, as i think they've gotta be good for people who are ready for them. (But too intense for me to include directly on my site.) Trunk p.s. Updated the <A href=http://www.precisiondocs.com/~altaoism/download.htm>download version</A> of my site. (First time trying html & quotes messin' around - hope it turns out. :bounce: )

imo, some people have some basic wiring, alchemy, etc., already in place - and so its most appropriate and effective to just do something. And, for that person, working on preliminaries is, like, "what for?". Usually, that person doesn't even know all the parts that've 'always just been there' for them. (This is often a real problem with advanced teachers, btw: they often just don't understand all the pieces that their students are missing.) Some other person might have this or that piece missing, which precludes "just doing it" - and so has to work through finding that piece, finding an effective technique for that piece, and doing the work to put that piece in place.

Yo, RJ! Luckily i saved that thread b4 HT went belly up! http://www.precisiondocs.com/~altaoism/She...Theory26252.htm Trunk