Trunk

I've been working on my distal acupressure massage essay a fair part of today. There's still significant verifications / possible corrections / additions I need to do, but the research has been pretty exciting. I've sort of been doing it bass-ackwards, in that I've been working the points for some weeks (a month +?) based on recommendations (some recent, some over the years), and have been amazed-happy with the results. Now that I've been doing the research for the essay, I'm getting an extra thrill - cause some of it is so cool. 1. The basic intro 2. The "Four Gates" (LI-4 and Liv-3 on both hands, feet). See info and links near bottom of essay. Anyway, like I said, there's still significant work (maybe corrections) to do - but the work today has been fascinating. And in practice has paid off hugely for me.

Dunno. I've eaten plenty of both raw, cooked, and in extract form. (Not that that means anything.)

I've cooked with all those herbs before, and like them. The rehmannia & codonopsis I cut into small pieces with cooking scissors. The astragalus I tie into some cheese-cloth (i think that's the name of that cloth), so that I can easily fish them out after cooking; astragalus is so woody, you don't want to eat it. The rest are good to eat.

I know zip about homeopathy, but I have used other supplements for detoxing very stubborn gunk (in my case, from a past illness). So far, two most effective have been cod liver oil and noni juice. Not sure if they'd address drug residues, but worth a mention. (Karen might know.) --- later edit --- After reading some of Lozen's log, I started taking nutritional yeast. Really increases circulation, which (I wonder) could be beneficial for detox - though I know little about it, except that its loaded with B vitamins. Interested in any comments.

Check out this article and video.

He da man! Much love to Don to light and delight his way! Don, you listening?, the whole world sends you love!

So, which guru/s have you studied with?

It looks like they're not shipping due to "manufacturing difficulties". I'll leave the page with no specific reference to product-source; let people find it where ever. I got mine at the local bodywork shop. I put an acknowledgement to you on the page; thanks for turning us on to this back roller thing. Really great tool.

Started bare-bones web pages on massage, here. Almost nothing written, but many of the pictures are self-explanatory. I've been getting a ton out of the "distal massage" work (see the page), if anyone wants to try & see/feedback how it feels, have-at-it. --- later edit --- Added some external article links about the acupoints that I graphic'd on the Distal Acupressure page. Whew!, I knew it was way beyond me to describe that stuff. Thanks to the web.

Bingo! Did you buy the CD and get the lyrics there? (I had only rented the DVD.. I noticed that there's a CD, also.)Thanks for posting that lyric quote. Right now I'm just going for the undertones. My understanding is that the overtones resonate certain places in the brain .. to get both the low lows and the glands in the brain at once, wow! that would be something. One step at a time: first the undertone. For me, if I have attention in my throat, it doesn't work. Like "trying to get my throat to make low tones" isn't even close. What works is to really rest my attention in the lowest parts of my torso, and move the attention slowly - in tempo with the breath - from one place to another and back, and let that place make the sound. My throat vibrates incidentally, and - yeah - one might say that my throat is making the sound, but for me, on the inside my awareness and the source of sound is way down in my lower tan tien. And I don't "intend" the sound to be a low note, whatever comes out is what comes out; I'm just allowing those lower spaces to make sound - whatever that is. When I'm relaxed, and can successfully rest my awareness that low (and not "try" in my throat), then the sound is similar to the undertone. But I can't always get there, and it doesn't last for very long, and there are also various stress-sounds that come out from low. Which is all fine and part of the process. My point is: if you are trying to do this in your throat, you're in the wrong place. Me, too. I'm curious what tones a woman would get. ---- later edit ----- The process of getting to the places where the possibility of the undertones is, that process reminds me of Yi Swallows Qi because both of them, at their best, go to the depths of the torso without stress. In fact neither allows full success if there is stress, and yet both of the allow - as part of their process - a release of stress while going toward the full depth. Both are very meditative practices towards resting awareness low.

I rented that a year or so ago and loved it. Now that I'm actually trying the practice - and viewing it as a method for male healing & cultivation, I recall that Paul got into this after his wife died. It doesn't mention it in the film, but I bet the low-down rumbling was therapeutic. Cyber-sangha strikes again! I might check out one or more of those discs you linked to. Gotta see how it goes with my stuff when I get it.. but I'd like to do at least one simple traditional deity chant, and that one has the Avelokiteshvara chant on it.

Interesting. I'm printing the article and reading it while I'm getting breakfast ready. I was moved to browse through John's stuff. Check out his Qi Gong Re-Charge. Scroll down to the bottom where he lists the 'Methods'. He goes through all the major joints (reminds me of Sonnon), squats, several methods that address the Core, and a set of "Recharge" exercises that I have no idea what they are - except that one of them is for the spine. Really, really interesting list. Mentions like everything we've been really excited about over the last 2 years or so, really concisely. *thinking of ordering it*... I tried his several (not all) of his animal-based videos some years ago. Honestly, the only exercise I connected with was the Bear (in the Power video). Liked it enough that I re-bought it on DVD. And look at all those people that wrote reviews of the book by Master Zhongxian Wu!! (Reads like an ad, I know. ... Not paid for by the Commission to re-elect John DuCane.)

These yang tonics are basically stimulants; they excite, bring to the fore, the energy that you have stored in you (yin). The usual, more basic, problem with men is that we already stimulate too much; we can't stop. So, we burn out our yin (reserves of energy), and then have difficulty being yang enough (cause our yin is depleted) and go looking for stimulants so we can feel all yang again. .. which will just deplete us more. If we could learn to stabilize a bit better, we'd never get in such a wretched situation. Not an easy task for most men, and so the discussion goes on here and at HT. Still, if you're going to take yang tonics, couple of things: 1. Do so sparingly, not too often. 2. Take yin tonics, nourishing herbs. Plato keeps pushing Ho Shou Wu, and he's right. It really is one of the best nourishing herbs (technically a blood tonic, but also known for nourishing kidney energy). In fact, I'd suggest starting a program of Ho Shou Wu first, for several weeks, and see if that doesn't solve your situation. Likely that you'll be nourished enough so that when you want to start your engines, the tank 'll be full and it'll all be good. But it takes some time to store yin. Yang tonics are more instant. Like, its easier (and faster) to spend than save.

Jeremiah, Fun conversation. All good points. I'm just going to play the other side, for balance and fun. Yes, but the ordinary meridians also go through the arms and legs. I'm very suspicious of the HT sequence, and I don't think that the arms and legs are exotic such that they should be a later, advanced step. Yes, but.. I don't see things as a 1-2-3 sort of sequence, in the natural dynamics of the body, nor in steps of cultivation. All the parts of the body support each other dynamically, all the time; there is no "beginning". There's no way a cultivator is going to get the orbit "open" (as if there were only open/closed) without everything else being healthy and open; the body is an integral whole. How this works out practically, in cultivation, is closer to circular: You work on one piece of the puzzle, get it going to some extent, then move on to another piece that needs work. Later, you'll find that you can go back to the original piece and get deeper work on it - due to all the work you've put in since then. So, more like a circle, or spiral, that goes progressively deeper and deeper. Agreed, definately. There's a balance between working locally and distally. I've come around to that view as a result of working with sexual energy (massage, lower tan tien breathing, etc) and the fact that stagnation tends to occur with retention. While the local massage, exercise, etc is important to start circulation locally, it also has the negative effect of increasing stagnation - if done alone. - Because it brings blood, qi, and yi into the area which is already suffering from excess (stagnation is an excess condition, too much jammed up in one place). So there needs to be a two-pronged complementary approach of local work (to exercise and loosen locally) and distal work (to promote flow-through). Case in point. I was working with my acupuncturist some years ago, and we both knew I had stagnation in my lower jiao. I'd bought some needles (though I'm not a dr) and needled a bunch of points in my belly & lower ab, with the intent of loosening things up. I went to see my acupuncturist and he said I was an insane maniac , and basically told me the theory that I mentioned in my previous paragraph, that I was bringing blood and qi to an area that already had too much. Live & learn. Trunk

Yeah. The way I'm looking at it now is not about one point, nor one physical part of the body, but to get flow through. I've been doing this by working more than one pt, on the orbit, and also on the arms & legs. My feeling is that when I do the arms & legs that it prompts flow between them, through the torso. This provides a complement to massage, qi gong, etc, in the lower tan tien.

GETTING THE GOVERNER VESSEL I know someone posted something about this device earlier (thanks!, who was that?), and I'm just now trying it out and am impressed. The Back Roller Scroll down on this page for explaination of what its for and how to use. (Also, they sell 'em etc.). --- later edit --- (btw, I bought mine at a local massage-supply shop, for ~$27, that place sells 'em for ~$50)

Me, neither. Using needles, you really have to find the acupoint exactly. With acupressure (aka shiatsu, acu-massage), all you have to do is knead around for a tender/sore place, then massage that general area/point. --- later edit --- It'd be so helpful to have a doctor of oriental medicine on board.

Allan, Nice to have an additional simple-path-walker on board. Wow!, I've been out-polited. lol.Relax, its all good here. Trunk

The inner part is the important part, imo. Its the mind transmission, and some profound re-configurations of consciousness where a student needs to, inwardly, trust and align with the Teacher .. while the student is being deconstructed and reconstructed in some very deep ways. So, there's got to be this trust and devotion to the Teacher, inwardly - in the context of meditation. Its like, the Teacher says "stay still and calm while I re-build your engine" and the student freaks and hits the gas (cause he didn't even know the thing came apart!). What the Guru-disciple relationship looks like on the outside is only important such that it supports the inner work. The outter G-d relationship rules vary amongst cultures, and specific relationships, I expect.

I thing so, too, Queeksdraw. Really, that's all that I'm talking about. In my mind, if that's not there (to the level of Realization), then its not a Guru-disciple relationship, and the word "disciple" doesn't apply. That's the way I think of the word.

My attention is still stuck on this some .. there's more blabbin' to do I think .. could be we're on the same page, maybe a different one, or diff chapt, or book, I dunno. So, commence to blabbin': When I think of 'dicipleship', I think of - basically - a guru-disciple relationship, which can go on in any tradition. Basically, the teacher is able to initiate the student to True Nature. The Guru reveals God to the student. I know there are meditation systems that are passed down within internal martial arts systems, and sometimes the teacher has real development in a number of ways. .. and, yup, - partly through transmission - that gets passed down to students. I'm making the distinction of talking about Realized Teachers, which is what makes it a guru-disciple relationship, and makes a big difference in the nature of the interaction. A couple of examples are Rumi & Shams, Krsna & Arjuna, a number of the Northern Indian / Tibetan relationships, Tilopa-Naropa-Marpa-Milaprepa. So, I'm not just talking about a really good solid very accomplished teacher, I'm talking about studying with a Realized teacher. To me, that's a big difference. And that's the sort of relationship that I connect the term "discipleship" with. I mean no disrespect .. I mean, some teachers of meditation & internals can be seriously righteous, and its totally appropriate - and important for humanity - that some people devote their lives to learning those specific knowledge-art-streams. But when the teacher is Realized, its a different gig, a different relationship.

The thing about that article that struck me is that it set out sort of three layers (I'm paraphrasing & misquoting, haven't read it in a while..): 1. The physical body, which will always want what it wants. 2. Energetic body, in which there is some potential for male-female aspect development and balance within one person. 3. Formless. Kind of basic stuff, but he said it in a way that illuminated some things more for me. Especially the part about there being all sorts of compromises along the way amongst those three parts. Part of my deal is that I got access to some higher states early on my path, and they are so strong and compelling, its like, "I want this all the time". Its so stable strong clear when you're in it. So, a lot of my path has been about supporting that. If I could've been celibate and stabilized in that, would'a done it. But there is a process, and compromises of working amongst the layers to keep it healthy, yaddah-yaddah. Really, having some experiences set me out on a path to get the details worked out between here and there, for integration and stability. All really obvious when I put it out like that (feeling a little stupid), but there's been plenty o' stress challenge teeth nashing. So, for me, the article was really pertinent.

Oh, I thought you guys might've been talking mainly about martial arts.

.. I was referring to the role of a meditation teacher.

This topic is primarily about transmission of enery and transmission of states of mind. Integral to this is deep reconfiguration of the consciousness of the disciple. Externally, its about being around the Teacher frequently. Internally, its about blending your mind-stream with that of the Teacher, and about your body learning - through a sort of spiritual osmisis - from the body of the Teacher. Classically this is done with an enlightened, or at least very high level, Teacher who is backed up by a Celestial Lineage (a group of beings that reside in a heavenly plane). The Lineage lends power, purity, stability, and structure to the Teacher, and the disciples receive those through the Teacher. All of which serves as a vehicle for transmission of Universal Principle. These sorts of relationships save students countless lifetimes of work.