Trunk

@DreamBliss, a few thoughts I find that what is available and deeply satisfying is gradual integration. You use your own sensitivities and trying modalities of method/s to engage basic transformative dialectics: conscious ~ unconscious, body ~ awareness, drop ~ Ocean, lofty ~ heavy. The people that dig it and stay with it … *basically* enjoy (yikes, not that simple) have some kind of bond that that’s just part of their life and there is incremental progress over the long term. That’s where the gratification is, the real game. Hidden Journey. The internal path. All that. *That’s* accessible, and it adds up over time. Worth while. And, yup, all kinds of exaggerations that spirituality will give you all the things that you want in your external life, fix all your character flaws, and give you super powers. Bullshit, all bullshit. The progress that you can make is frustratingly slow, and partial, and usually not in the proportions, areas that you might prefer. Still, deeply worth while. cheers, Trunk

~~~ admin note ~~~ I've suspended Salvijus from posting through the end of the month. He posted twice here in-thread after being warned not to, both posts I've hid. (I've also hidden a post by @silent thunder re: Salvijus). Drop this conflicted bullsh#t and please ... continue on with the thread's topic at your leisure. ~~~ admin out ~~~

~~~ admin statement ~~~ Agreed with both of the quoted points below. And in *usual* (objective philosophical) threads on this site I'd stay on middle ground, resolutely. Bedrock. This thread is different. Someone is stepping up incredibly bravely to share more intimate things about themself, to the community than ... in this moment, I can't think of any thread where any member has been so brave and vulnerable. Ever on this site, since it's inception. @Salvijus, my view is that you are expressing sincerely, just as you are, without hidden animosity. And you're coming from a philosophical view (that is very worth exploring, but also extreme ... and to persist in the context of this thread is rude). Out of courtesy for the unusual dynamic of this thread: enough. Stop posting within this thread. Period. If you have a major problem with a post, report it and let myself and the moderation team handle. Everyone else, please leave Salvijus alone. I get that there are people with conscious, deliberate covert hostilities, and those with subconscious hostilities. Don't paint Salvijus as either. Ok. That's over now. Onward, Trunk ~~~ admin out ~~~

~~~ admin comment ~~~ This is a bit of a tricky thread to moderate as it's so unusual. As a matter of courtesy, the main point of this thread is not to explore every permutation of how things might be seen (and I get that that's *part* of the dynamic), but the main point is to allow someone who has direct personal experience to share their point of view. - Trunk p.s. I haven't had time to keep up with this thread well, so things might've sorted well already ... but I still had lingering that something like this needed to be said. ~~~ admin out ~~~

Inspired by the video below, I’ve made some effective strides on ren and the whole abdominal region. She instructs along the line of belly dancing … I modify the breathing towards a more Daoist orientation. The tip: 1. Put your finger on any acupoint (indendation) along the abdominal section of ren (below the sternum and above the pubic bone). Whether you place your finger firmly, lightly, or not quite touching at all - will emphasize physical ~ subtle engagement (all good). 2. Do a slow smooth inhale ~ exhale from the center at finger-level. Basically, doing dan tien breathing at the level of the finger. Slowly, so that the layers of tissues gently separate during the (inhale oops!) exhale, often including a gentle tug-pull from the inside at the acupoint. Just 1 to several breaths, then… 3. Next acupoint, repeat 1&2. All up n’ down. I find that this extremely simple tip: - Helps to locate areas of the abdomen that are … unfamiliar, inarticulate, physically, and getting the sensitivity and muscular articulation online. - extraordinarily effective in activating acupoints along ren - overlaps + complements other kinds of deep abdominal work - Trunk

also, we've made sure that the entire "gender gardens" area is not viewable to the www at large; TDBs Members only. I've edited the description to make that clear.

“… just when I thought I’d stop talking, … pulls me back in” adding Kwan Yin Mag.Qigong back …

regarding practices that would be considered microcosmic orbit, especially re: jing refinement .. Well, the above method~s, - for me - within the last few months … Have brought me more healing, more towards balance than … some other mco approaches, lol, that emphasize ‘up’ first (and include the *ideas* of balance and mco, but often works out w/ opposite results). And it’s easy. And I’m def still progressing w/ it. Essential tool belt item, imho. Other results?: 1. My singing voice has improved. I’ve been listening to Al Green a lot, and I’m surprised at my improvement. Really good articulation and sustain. 2. My belly is flatter; such that people ‘ve been commenting. My diet? I’ve been ravenous and I eat anything I want, as much as I want. I’ve been pigging out for … weeks, if not months. Exercise? No changes. Almost none, recently, honestly. It’s just this method, very little practice time, actually -> strong ongoing results. - and people ‘ve been commenting on my flatter stomach. 3. Internal arts. Assisting in various ways, won’t belabor by detailing. Ok, that’s my blab on the subject. ciao, Trunk

I've been doing some review of du & ren in Deadman's Manual of Acupuncture. If you're really into this stuff, consider buying that - or some other hard core - book on acupuncture. Of the caliber that they use in schools. I find it to be a valuable reference. Anyway, the trajectories of ren (and du) are significantly different than is presented in pop-Taoism. A couple of other references.

@Euhen, Welcome! - Trunk

@PathOfbeansGod, Welcome! You might find the links in my signature to be helpful. - Trunk

It occurs to me that these two practices (below) contain an especially effective duo (in the context of well rounded etc) for addressing the typical (male) jing cultivation difficulties.

@yang107, Welcome! - Trunk

@lionkin72, Welcome! - Trunk

@SteamingTea, Welcome! - Trunk

@MaximusIA, Welcome! - Trunk

@Kdd, Welcome! - Trunk

@surrogate corpse Welcome! Trunk

Thank you. You've prompted my interest back into self-acupressure. I go with "groovy freestyle" self-acupressure, where I massaged gently along a channel (which are in the grooves between muscles) and spend extra time where ever I find pain to resolve, or good stuff. The liver channel especially made a big hit this way, as it's so helpful in resolving stagnation in the lower jiao and very convenient to massage, especially along the lower leg. Pulling out some old pictures.

btw, talking about the navel (that’s not a lead-in that I often use, lol) anyway, My orientation is that “embryonic breathing” is a key concept. (various practices might go in that direction). The beginning, the physically foundational nourishment all came in through that pumping. There are times when lung-breathing minimizes and the belly activates in a deeply integral way. If we want to access and cultivate our most physical foundations, imho, “embryonic breathing” is an idea to have around.

There's a variations of the microcosmic orbit thread in the Daoism section, which comments on, inspired me towards ... this broader topic of "Beginnings". I think that there is a wide variety of aspirants here, with a wide variety of background ... hopefully mostly anectotal (we might touch on classical complete perfection, but I'm not obsessing on it)... and this might vary widely depending on tradition and specific internal path, goal. When you "started", was there some broad orientation/one piece maybe/method/teaching that you received that was especially helpful? (or, on the other hand, led to trouble?) ... and if you were to give some very short piece of advice, (doesn't have to cover all the bases or anything) for beginning?

@liminal_luke, I’ve been going straight down ren, and so‘ve included the navel itself as an (exceptionally special) acupoint. I’ve seen a variety of people do things with their bellies, and I’m always impressed. Those sorts of methods (often) just look *healthy*. Historically, this has not been an easy area for me … many of us have had our smash-up-derbies of one kind or another, and I’ve had mine … I didn’t expect this practice to work so well. It’s not like I’ve never‘ve tried methods, modalities. - When I started this method, I had more than one spot that was painful, dumb, inarticulate etc. This has moved through stages *really* readily. - Currently: This practice continues to progress rapidly, has become stronger, more fluent, enjoyable. The feeling of strength has a quality of soothing flexibility. blabbing, Trunk

Very cool.

This method is highlighting a difference for me … You know when a method just works. vs doing something for years that kinda works and almost but and if I just worked harder and had better character and I just have to practice this for the rest of my life and it’ll never be perfect??? … but I really should do it and it’s the right thing? and oh poor me, lol and then there’s things like the above method. I wake up in the morning, or I’m lounging on the couch and I just notice that I’m breathing with a depth and ease that is remarkable. or I go to do morning standing and the flows that this would supposedly promote are just flowing, like *wow*, not endless struggle for partial frustrating results and abraded self esteem … just, results, right away - and in the days following practice. This is one of those. and super simple p.s. And how soon did I start to feel results with this method? The first time I tried it, in session, the first point, within a few breaths. So far, it’s been like that. … and there’s been a recognizable arc of progressive changes. curious to see how this plays out .. and - Has it produced a sense of tension?, struggle? No. On the contrary, I find it emotionally nourishing (something about the acupoints and local alchemy), and soothing.

Welcome @alexis karpouzos, - Trunk