gendao

I think this kind of jing is not augmentable by exercises or diet. It's sort of like that adage that we only use 10% of our brain capacity. Qigong masters, imo, just know how to use what they've got. This jing is impossible to really describe, but we know it when we see it.

T

If it is not based upon the amount of qi or jing your parents have - then what?

Or if it is based upon their jing - but they can't really augment it - then that same amount of prenatal qi stays constant down through every generation?

And this question has probably been answered here many times - but what exactly is the difference between jing & qi, then? I have also heard that jing transmutes to qi transmutes to shen - which would imply that jing can't be augmented since it's a base energy?

They say a person's lifeforce and longevity is determined by the amount of their prenatal qi...

Well, is your prenatal qi basically the amount of your dad's qi/jing that was shot into your mom's egg at your conception (in addition to your mom's jing in her egg, I suppose)?

If so, then someone who has cultivated more qi/jing...or perhaps had kids when younger with more of both...should create more prenatal qi in their child, correct? Not to mention, I've also heard that meridian blockages can be passed down as well, so someone with clearer meridians should create kids with clearer meridians, too.

End result being that the offspring of qigong masters should have greater health and longer longevity, right?

Has anyone noticed if this is true or not? I've only known of a few kids like this...but they were indeed very healthy and/or seemed very large (taller than average) and virile at least.

Who do you think is the highest-level master in the world today?

Wang Liping?

An unknown hermit in the mountains of China?

Some Indian guru?

Just a silly question for a Monday morning...

Like I said I took one couse with David in Denmark in 2004 (Sheng Zheng Gong level 1). That was my first and only encounter with David and it cost around 3000DKK which is about 400 euros or about $550. There were no further tuition fees!

Well, could you give us a brief review of what you learned (don't have to go into details) and what level you feel you are at now? Basically, how do you think the practices you were taught have actually helped you thus far?

Turbo,

From my experience as a meditation teacher in the past, students who complain about the money and get admited to the class for free are the worst kind of students as they constantly interrapt the class with unrelated questions and complaints, and later simply don't practice. It is simly a waist and hinders the learning progress of others in the class. I observed it and other teachers say the same thing.

 

The question of money always comes up. My answer is if the teacher doesn't charge you for the class, he would have to find another job to support his living needs. And that would make him less available to teach, or maybe not at all. There is also an issue of "entitlement"- I deserve to be invited for free, etc. The questing you should be asking is what makes you special and not the others who dedicated their resources and effort to attend the class. Would you go to your job and work for free? How about every second customer get a free service?

 

I hope you don't take it personally as I really appreciate your contributions on this forum.

Max

And what about Wang Liping and his disciples? Does he charge them tuition?

I think traditionally in the East, the student "paid" more with strong loyalty and personal friendship, respect and even subservience. These were very much hand-picked, "familial" friendships like father & son that a pricetag simply couldn't be placed on. Which weeded out insincere or unworthy students and kept the "classes" very small...but also helped keep the transmissions undiluted and in good hands. This is why "respect" is so much more important with Eastern disciplehood. Because they often have literally nothing else to gain from you and are doing YOU a huge favor. So, if you learn the "Western" "rebellious teenager" way as if you were paying a tuition, but aren't - then you are sort of "ripping them off." Which is why I think some of these masters get annoyed with Western students over time - because they are trying to have their cake and eat it too.

This is due to their background in the commercialized West, where money is substituted for a direct personal relationship and teachings get doled out on a cost schedule. Without the personal relationship, I think some humanistic connection is lost here that often leads to quality-control problems and dilution - but it also does allow access to a wider audience who otherwise might be too far removed to form any relationship at all. It's also a bit more practical in our heavily-industrialized "workshop/gym" culture where most people don't have time for regular devoted practice.

So, both methods have their trade-off's. And also the real distinction may be more Old World vs New World, rather than East vs West. But, the point here is that in this cultural translation, this disciplehood is spanning a culture clash and different contexts.

Personally, I don't know how David arrived at $7500 but I do think it is only realistic to charge at least some base amount, at least. In our Western context, I hardly think he needs to spring for some student's fee just to "prove" it to us. If he were to go that route, he might as well invite James Randi instead and make a million dollars in return. The question here is more how much, than if any at all. Now, if he wants to knock off $500 for someone here, great. But if not, that's fine too. I think as market forces take effect and this knowledge spreads and gets diluted, the price will also come down in the future anyways (although you may be paying less for less too).

Chackra are opened. Tan Tien are built. Chackra are along the central channel (at least the standard 7) Tan Tien although they are also in the central channel, have a position physical position which is not necessarily in the central channel.

 

And my reaction was just because I have a prejudice against the indian yogic system, so seeing my loved taoism being compared to yoga made me coagulate in pain.

So, the central channel I presume runs along the spinal column? If so, might the sacral navel chackra be the same as the mingmen pt on the MO there? Might the chackras be gates to the dantiens...which might be more like reservoirs? So, connected, but not the same thing? (Sorry if these questions sound stupid, btw.)

And why are you prejudiced against the Indian yogic system? Think they're not theoretically sound, too fiery or had a bad experience?

aaargh

If no, what exactly is the difference between the lower dantien and the sacral navel chakra?

I've been told that the lower dan tien has a link to the pole star and the unmanifest.

Anyhow, many of us know where it's supposedly at...but as to WHAT exactly it is? I'm personally rather vague on it...

Another possibility to throw out there is that I heard according to "John Chang," it's physically the original cell that formed when your dad's sperm fertilized your mom's egg and contains all your prenatal qi.

Hi Pero,

 

Real healing abilities are developed through personal spiritual cultivation. Look at the mass production of acupuncturists in the US theses days and you will see how quickly an "internal" healing modality is turned into an "external", mind-oriented conventional BS. Same goes for Reiki, etc. Pay $ and become a healer. Right....

 

Max

Most of these guys have the fa, but not the gong. Heck, I don't think acupuncturists are even required to practice qigong in their schools here.

Well, if you have no clear-flowing qi or jing, how the heck are you going to heal anybody else? You got no juice. It's just like 95% of Taijiquan players who can't make it work because they lack any gong. All they are doing is going through the slow-motions, but with no internal juice to power them.

If these guys haven't self-cultivated for a period with some form of "qigong" as a core practice, it's like waving a garden hose over your flower bed with no water!

What do you think he died from? Was he too firey or something?

When the same methods I used were employed by my students, they had very similar results of "Kundalini Awakening" in anywhere from 2 months to 18 months time. I watched as one after another went through the process. No one had any of the problems often written about in the 'myths' of Kundalini. We were continually amazed at the 'Universality' of the process. Later we learned that Qigong provided certain safeguards that were keeping the process safe and efficient. It was a very experimental program in the beginning. As time progressed, I refined the system further to eliminate any unnecessary practices and honed in on what was actually producing the manifestation of Kundalini. It basically came down to opening the Base Chakra (Genitals) and then working up to the higher energy centers from there. Combine the chakra work with running energy along the spine & limbs, positive mind states, employing specific breathing methods, and practicing Testicular/ Ovarian Gong Fu and you have a complete composite of what I did and what I feel is the core essence of my practice. I honestly believe these to be the most potent Qigong practices in the world.

 

Later I wrote 3 widely available books on the subject matter and many foreign students were emailing me from around the world reporting similar experiences from doing the practices. I decided to refine my life's work into a system we later called the "Kundalini Awakening Process" . I created a highly organized program with a comprehensive workbook and home practice CD. The workshop is taught in a weekend seminar format. The process is learned in 2 days and practiced at home along with the CD we provide you with.

Well, when you want to see jacks-of-all-trades, watch some MMA.

But when you want to see a master of a particular skill - watch that particular art.

I don't have a problem with either, it just depends on what you want to see at the time. If I want to see some really high-level boxing, I'll watch boxing, not MMA. If I want to watch shootfighting takedowns, I'll watch MMA.

There's a trade-off here between scope and depth - and there's nothing wrong with that.

The magical part of spiritual path is eventually you acquire wisdom and knowledge that is not based on your past experiences and learning. Why do you think they painted Krishna blue- they ran out of yellow paint, right?

I just thought of that question last night!

So...what's the answer?

I connected with Eric Yudelove through emails and asked him lots of questions. At first it had seemed like I found a good teacher. Then a few months in things got really weird. He started talking about being " A walking dead man" and sending a dragon named Yoshio to fuck you when you sleep. he then started to get into alot of talk about sorcery and magic.

I see... I`m a little surprised, with him being the founder of Pranic Healing and all... Maybe it had something to do with karma and it was just his time.

I awoke from a dream yesterday...

I was driving my car in a caravan of vehicles as we entered a tunnel. It was apparently a long tunnel, that got darker as we got deeper inside. It was unlit and so eventually it got pitch black. At this point, I quickly tried turning my headlights on...but they wouldn't turn on no matter what I did! So, here I was trying to follow a car ahead of me and avoid crashing into the walls - all at full speed...without being able to see a damned thing! I was basically left to "feel" or "sense" my way through with practically no external guidance.

What do I mean by "sensing?" Just imagine careening through a dark tunnel at 70 mph and trying not to hit anything! Now, that's "sensing!"

Well after several hairy seconds of blindly careening through this darkness, the proverbial light at the end of the tunnel appeared. Somehow, I had made it out alive. I rolled down my window to check my sideview mirror for any damage and there were just 2 small scrapes. Fairly unscathed, whew.

We then drove down into an underground area where we all parked and deboarded. And left on foot to explore some subterranean passageways...

I interpret this dream as meaning that I will have to use "sensing" to progress through less visible and deeper paths I am at now...that may lead inside myself to my very core. That there are times when you must follow a path you cannot even see. And how to walk...an invisible path.