liminal_luke

Wonderful story. Don´t ya just love it when that happens? A few years ago I was looking at books at an esoteric bookstore, Open Secret in San Rafael, California, when I suddenly felt this amazing sense of openness and relaxation in my chest. I´d never felt anything like it before or since. Later I discovered a group was meditating in the backroom.

I say yes -- it´s possible. I´d take this as a very encouraging sign. If you´re attracted to the name Flying Phoenix and your body is spontaneously making similar movements, perhaps it would be a good idea to investigate this system further? It´s not something that I practice, personally, but many people here seem to benefit and there´s a lot of support for practice.

Will be interested to hear the results of your Nine Turns investigation if you feel like sharing later. I´ve attended Sheng Zhen workshops with Master Li and highly recommend him and his system.

I´m just goofing off. Only about 50% of what I´ve said in my last few posts is true; the rest I added for what my friend Greg calls "texture and color" -- for entertainment purposes. Really though, I should stop. It´s obvious that you´re not open to serious conversation about your history so there´s no point in going on about it. @freeform is right, I think, when he says that you literally can´t see things differently than you do, so it´s probably not in the best of tastes to keep teasing you about it. It´s been fun in a low-brow not very spiritual kinda way, but all good things must come to an end. See ya in another thread.

I had a coffee date with a woman friend of mine the other day. First she cried and then she went to sleep. What can I say: I am a total stud.

With so many spiritually advanced people on the forum, it´s easy for the spiritually average to get a bit of an inferiority complex. It´s happened to me. These days I can´t even get into full lotus. And as for giving other people orgasms -- that´s hard enough the conventional way. But there´s one thing I can do that even some spiritual superstars have trouble with: I can start a thread about a topic and generate enough good will that other people are willing to engage with me in conversation.

you are not the moon

I like your openness to experience. At the risk of further exasperating our cloudwalking owl, I´ll share my method for deciding if I want to provisionally accept a given teacher´s explanation of energetic phenomenon: I feel their qi. Or maybe it would be more accurate to say that I feel how my own qi feels around them. Everybody does this, I think -- we pick up the vibe. I´m more inclined to believe teachers with good vibes. Whether or not this method truly leads to capital T Truth I can´t say, but I like where it´s taken me so far.

I don´t think anybody is saying that "orgasm at a distance" is inherently evil. Actually, I imagine it could be quite beautiful in the right circumstances -- namely between two people who consciously intend for it to happen. The issue isn´t about whether orgasm at a distance is ethical per se or whether or not it´s a bona fide Daoist phenomenon. The issue is consent. It´s not illegal to sit in full lotus in public, nor should it be. It´s probably not illegal to give people orgasms at a distance either, simply because most legal types wouldn´t believe it´s possible. But we´re not really talking about legality here -- we´re talking about ethics. So are you saying that you never intended to give anybody an orgasm at a distance but your energetic development was such that it "just happened" on it´s own? I´m not sure that takes you entirely off the hook. If you know that that kind of thing is likely to happen when you sit in ful lotus in public then maybe you shouldn´t sit in full lotus in public. Not because it´s illegal to do so, but because being careful about how your energy effects others is the decent thing to do. Still, I´ll grant you that accidentally triggering an orgasm in someone is less pervy than intentionally doing so. What I´m not hearing from you is any sort of contrition or acceptance of responsibility, whether or not your O at a D incidents were intentional or not. Just for fun, I wonder what kind of reaction from people you would get if you said something like this... I´ve made some mistakes as a Daoist cultivator. Years ago I worked very hard to gain a certain kind of power but in my youthful immaturity I didn´t have the wisdom to know how to use this power correctly -- or even how to contain it. As a result, I gave some young girls who didn´t consent to have sex with me orgasms from a distance. Sometimes I even felt proud of my ability to do this. Looking back, I see that this was wrong. I see now how my earlier posts about this subject might be upsetting to people, especially perhaps to people who have themselves been victims of nonconsensual sex or know people who have been. I am truly sorry for any discomfort I´ve caused forum members. Because I´m acutely aware of the peryy side of my own shadow self, and aware of the damage it can cause, I´m particularly vigilant about perviness in other´s as well. That´s why I started this thread about Elitom. Nobody should be sexually assaulted, not in the usual physical sense and not energetically from a distance either. Of course you didn´t write this. I did. Something like this is what I wish you´d written.

Luke takes a little superpower bow. Adoring fans marvel at his psychic powers reading comprehension and memory. He really nailed this one.

Two people consensually exchanging erotic energy at a distance as part of a spiritual practice is one thing; one person imposing their erotic energy on an unsuspecting fast food eating stranger another. I do recall you saying, @voidisyinyang, that you gave young women "orgasms at a distance" at McDonalds. Am I misremembering this? Looking back, what do you think of this incident(s) now? Do you think it was OK? Would you do it again? I get that you would like this thread to be about the sexual behavior of someone else and not about yourself. But the fact is that some of us who were around to hear your stories of years ago are not going to move past this without some sort of further clarification from you. I`m not. This is a tough subject to talk about. Many people have been on the receiving end of nonconsensual sexual experiences, including, I`m sure, many Bums. Other people have loved ones who have been traumatized by nonconsensual sexual experiences. Feelings run strong! Like it or not, you are in the crosshairs of this discussion. You might want to move on but people simply won`t let you, especially not when you`re focusing on other people`s sexual behaior. If you`d be willing to talk about your previous "orgasm at a distance" postings in a really human, nondefensive way I think that would go a long way towards clearing the air.

You want people to be a certain way and they are refusing to do what you want. Happens to me all the time. If you think the Bums in this thread are stubborn, you should meet my partner! I`ve read somewhere that this situation reflects a certain kind of disharmonious qi dynamic. Kind of like when you reach for something and get an energetic pain in your back only on an interpersonal level. Well, I guess that pretty much explains it. My work here is done.

Can I suggest a change in strategy? So far you´ve been asking people to give you examples of their experience according to parameters that you´ve set -- relatively objective, free from cultural overlays, etc. Nobody has stepped up to the plate, at least not in the way you´d like. Since people haven´t been playing along, why not simply make your point without their participation? Then people could agree or disagree as they choose. So far I think you´ve said that taking on ancient spiritual beliefs about the meaning of our experiences is not always useful. Do I understand you correctly? This is an interesting idea and I´d be open to hearing more about it. Can you give examples from your experience of how these belief systems lead people astray? How might people approach spiritual practice in a more productive way?

Has Dwai escaped from the insane asylum again? He has one of the worst cases of dissociative disorder we´ve seen in a long, long time. Going in and out of his body at random. In and out of other people´s bodies. It´s really too much! All this talk of lucid dreams and visions, not to mention the unintelligilble gibberish about non-duality. Nobody here has the faintest clue what he´s talking about, although he does claim to have a few friends on an obscure Daoist internet forum. Sigh.

I like the distinction ilumairen makes between experience and explanatory narratives. Suppose I do some meditative movements and afterwards I have the subjective experience of warmth in my abdomen. To me, this is inherently interesting. If someone comes along and tells me this experience is "nonsense" I´m likely to feel disrespected. It was a real experience, it happened to me. I don´t care much whether anybody else finds it interesting or not, but I do and it certainly isn´t nonsense. Where things get tricky is when we try to fit experience into some sort of intellectual framework. Maybe I believe that the heat I felt is a result of "energy" filling up my lower dan tien. Maybe I think I´ve been possessed by alien hotties from another planet. Perhaps it´s the spirit of God descending down on me from above, a reward for my good deeds in a past life. Some of these theories may indeed be nonsense and, in any case, nobody is required to accept my philosophical framework as gospel. If you´re skeptical, Cloudwalking Owl, of some of the theoretical constructs people use to expain their subjective spiritual experiences, well, welcome to the club. Me too. But please don´t be disdainful of the experiences themselves. People have engaged in a wide variety of spiritual practices and have had a wide variety of spiritual experience for a long, long time, probably from the get-go of our species. Spiritual practice comes to us as naturally as our tendency to sing or to dance or to draw pictures of bison on the cave walls. It´s part of what makes us human.

I find it odd that you say I´m deflecting from the topic and don´t want to answer your questions. As you can read in the bottom quoted paragraph, I answered each of your four questions in the order given.

Agreed. To my mind, perviness has nothing to do with the size of a person´s dildo collection, nothing to do with a sling that may or may not hang in a basement. It has nothing to do with the clothes someone chooses to wear or the number of people a person has slept with. A perv is someone who doesn´t respect the personal sovereignty of others. It´s that simple.

Is it useful for other people to know about the specifics of my energetic experiences? I´m not so sure. Many of us tend towards excessive social comparison -- who has more money, better looks, more expertise, popularity...and on and on. I like to think of my embodied energetic experience as a small island relatively free of the modern scourges of competition and self-recrimination. If my experiences of qi seem more dramatic and powerful than someone else´s does that mean I´m a more advanced qi-ster? If your experiences seem more dramatic and powerful are you necessarily more advanced? I don´t think so. We are all so different and I have faith that qi is "intelligent" and that we each have the experience of qi we need in a given moment. But to answer your question...over the years I´ve had some qi experiences that seemed localized and others that seemed to effect my body globally, sometimes even the area around my body. Many of these experiences have involved heat, cold not so much. Some experiences were over in a flash, others lasted several hours. Some were clearly the result of doing a certain practice or being in a certain circumstance, others came upon me seemingly out of the blue.

Fascinating video with many actionable tips for practice -- thanks!

I´ve had many experiences of energy or qi, however you want to say it. Generally speaking, these experiences are quite pleasurable. They are also fascinating. How delightful that my body is capable of such varied sensation! Other people more expert than I might be able to interpret my qi experiences according to some system of understanding. Maybe these feelings I feel in my body mean something in terms of my health or level of spiritual development. For the most part, I´m happy to leave these intellectual ideas about energy alone and simply be with my body as I find it. The experience of qi certainly isn´t nonsense. It´s part of my life and of great interest to me. No further justification seems necessary.

My superpower is recognizing other people´s strengths, other people´s superpowers. It´s not that impressive of an ability really but does come in handy on occasion. Since everybody loves a superpower demonstration and nobody takes anything on faith, I´ll demonstrate. Here goes in the order in which people posted in this thread... Silent Thunder: Your superpower is that you´re an exceptional father. (Not as fun as shitting other people´s pants but hey...) Nungali: You combine masculinity with a poetic sensibility (a very rare superpower indeed) and have an astounding ability to come up with a graphic for every occasion. Manitou: Your superpower is radical humility, the kind of humility that opens spiritual doors.

...

Looks like we have our organizer! In the unlikely event that I´m not around if Everything posts again just PM me Nungali and I´ll get right on it.

I´d be happy to report right now myself...or wait...or ignore. Maybe TM can decide and we can all act together as a group?

This has probably already been tried but just in case -- have Everything`s posts been reported to Sean? He`s clearly interfering with other Bums right to peacefully discuss a topic of mutual interest and doesn`t respond to polite requests to desist. If ever there was a need for moderator action, this is it.