liminal_luke

I don't have any answers to your questions, but wanted to salute you for asking them just the same. This kind of thing doesn't get talked about much here, and I think it takes courage to bring it up. Liminal

I thought I had something of value to say so I spoke up. Sorry to hear you disagree. If Dhiggs wishes to hear only from taoist priests and their students he is free to ignore my posting and,well, no harm no foul. Ok, please forgive my momentary ranting. Back, I hope, to the subject at hand. Liminal

Hi Dhiggs, It's natural enough, I suppose, to seek advice and feedback from others. Taobums is full of experienced and opinionated practitioneers of various paths so you are sure to hear many different views. I'd like to suggest though that you are the best and final judge of whether what you are thinking and doing makes sense for you. Clearly you are a thinking, self-aware person. Perhaps part of your emerging Manhood, as you put it, will be having greater confidence in your own wise counsel? If I might suggest a simple process. Ask yourself where you'd like to go, what you'd like to achomplish in life. Then think about the next small steps you will need to take to get yourself headed in that direction. Try some things out as an experiment, and keep track of how it goes. After a period evaluate the results of what you're doing and see if it's indeed working for you, or if you need to make modifications or go off on another path altogether. In this way you'll soon become an expert on your own process. You'll feel comfortable in your own skin, self-assured. Your path may not fit somebody else's idea of what's "taoist," or even logical--but it will be authentically your own. Just my two cents. Liminal

It's mine anyway. This double-bacon burger. So give me a bite.

Not sure if this is what you had in mind Joeblast, but your post reminded me of something I'd heard about the healing sounds. Making the sounds out loud to release on a more physical level; making the sounds subvocally to release more subtle psychic tensions.

It all just arrives this happiness undeserved enjoy anyway!

Hi Seth, I think you're farther along than you're giving yourself credit for. My understanding is that combining heaven and earth energies is the very essence of internal alchemy. Getting a teacher is always a good idea, and I'm sure you could develop your practice further and all, but as far as alchemy goes--I say you're already there. The power of the practice is testament to that. Liminal

Hi Futuredaze, I think it would be worthwhile to take some time to explore these feelings. Perhaps journal. If nothing else, the relationship is bringing up stuff for you that you can look at,stuff that might help you grow as a person. And that's what relationships are supposed to do IMHO-- so it's working. Spending time with your feelings might or might not help you get closer to her, but it will certainly help you get closer to yourself. Also, spending time paying attention to what the relationship is bringing up for you puts you in the best possible position to cultivate the kind of intimate relationship I'm guessing you want. Assuming you two decide to continue exploring together, what would you like your togetherness to feel like? I'm sure you don't want to be jealous, or insecure, or addicted. And if you do feel that way chances are your togetherness isn't going to feel so good to her either, at least not in the long term. I think the kind of practices people talk about on taobums are useful for relationships. If you do a practice that clears out chi blockages that helps. If you do a practice that centers you that certainly helps. Any practice that gets you in touch with you is bound to help. Really though, sometimes life itself is the practice. And perhaps never so much as when one is beginning a new relationship. It sounds like you are paying attention to your feelings. I'd keep doing that. My two cents. Liminal

Here's my list: (1) Kunlun/Yi gong, (2) primordial chi gung aka tai chi for enlightenment--but only if practiced multiple times a day, (3) the healing tao path as outlined by Michael Winn of Healing Tao USA, especially the progression of Kan and Li, (4) Sundo, and (5) shengzhen from Master Li. I've done all of these at one point or another, and believe that if you go deep with any one of them you will indeed go deep. Personally, I've never had trouble finding powerful practices. The far more important question in my experience is how to become the kind of person who practices diligently and consistently. Without that you can have access to wonderful practices galore and never get very far. Liminal

I don't begrudge the terminally ill and in pain the right to die with dignity on their own terms. Mostly though I think suicide is a bad move. My dad killed himself and I just recently wrote about some of my feelings. I've been wanting to share my writing more recently so here goes. It's pretty personal and confessional so fair warning to people who don't like that kind of thing... I need to write about rage. My father’s tongue used to curl ominously over his upper lip whenever he was overcome with fury, something that happened often and without warning. I don’t remember much really. There was that time he went to hit mom, and instead put his fist through the pantry door. We taped a Christmas card over the hole rather than get it fixed. He knew how to skirt the edge of domestic violence without ever actually going over the line. Dad was proud of his status as a non-batterer. It was the last thing he said to mom before blowing his brains out: “Remember, I never hit you.” Killing yourself is murder too. You don’t hurt only yourself. It’s twenty years later, and I’m still pretty messed up about it. Maybe the hardest part is my suspicion that he did it for me. He knew I’d be happy to see him gone, and I was. He shot himself so I wouldn’t have to. Or maybe it’s hard because I love and hate him in equal measure, and I don’t know how to disentangle my jumbled feelings. Terrorized children turn into emotionally handicapped adults. I wish I was better at relationships. I wish I could believe my boyfriend loves me—because he does. I wish I was softer, more forgiving of his foibles, less angry. I wish love felt safe.

sounds pretty nice to me Liminal

Taobums has changed my life. Mostly because I've found out about resources and practices that I've explored and incorporated into what I do. There are some very knowledgeable people on here who are doing/sharing things that I just wouldn't know about otherwise in my so-called "real" life. As far as the arguments and drama go, I mostly just ignore it. Well, not always true. I'm occasionally willing to duke it out if the subject matter is something I feel passionate about. Mostly though, that's not why I'm here. By now, I know certain people whose opinions and views I respect, and I learn a lot from what they have to say.

When it comes to discussing the ideal diet, whether for cultivation or just general wellbeing, things aren't nearly so simple as the ideologues, carniverous and otherwise, would have us believe. Too often we forget to ask key questions: for whom, under what conditions. While I myself strongly advocate for the virtues of a bacon cheeseburger (sans wheat bun, sadly), healthy eating is not a one-size-fits-all affair. Liminal

Personally, it would be challenging for me to follow the traditional advice. I'd be afraid of getting it wrong, feel awkward being so active and outgoing, doing something so foreign to me. And yet, I agree that it's the way to go. Even if different temples are different and you don't end up doing it exactly right for that particular tradition...still, I think the fact that you've gone out of your way to follow tradition the best you know how, rather than just taking the easy way out and offering some more generic form of respect, is sure to be appreciated.

A few further thoughts... One of the aspects that seems to particularly strike your waking self in relation to the dream is the kind of sociopathic quality of the murders. You don't feel guilty. Interestingly, sociopathy itself is itself a kind of numbness. A person should feel something--guilt, remorse, etc--but instead feels nothing at all. It's very common for people to treat themselves with less concern than they treat others. We often do things to ourselves, ie murder, that we'd never do to other people. Is there a way you are hurting yourself, perhaps even killing off parts of yourself, that you haven't, until now, been aware of? Are you numb to your own self-harming tendencies? Just a thought to explore. Liminal

Hi Mantis, The part that really stands out to me is the numb feeling that you say has some relation to your waking life. And how the murders seem motivated by the desire to feel, the desire not to be numb. I'd start there. Perhaps do some journaling or active imagination of sorts (reenter the dream as kind of a daydream in waking life and see where it takes you) focusing on the numbness. Numbness is interesting because it represents a kind of psychic edge. There's a defensiveness there. You feel numb because a part of you, anyway, doesn't want to feel. The big question, of course, is what lies beyond the numbness. What would you feel if you were willing to feel into the numb areas? You might be numb, but at least you aren't numb to your numbness if you get my meaning. You are willing to be aware of the numbness. Dreaming about the numbness seems to suggest that you are ready to go beyond whatever this numbness is in your waking life. Several people have alluded to the idea that you might be murdering parts of yourself. One of my favorite ways to look at dreams is to imagine that all the parts are parts of ourselves. In other words, it's all you. Can you see a part of yourself that's the korean girl, the mother figure, the voice, powerful mother nature figure, etc? As well, of course, as the murderer and the murdered. Can you locate these parts of yourself? What associations do you have with each of these characters? Do you see yourself in any of them in your ordinary life? Are any of these characters, perhaps, hidden--up till now--aspects of yourself that your dream is asking you to develop? To be...um, less numb to? And who, in particular, is that Korean girl you morph into through the process of rebirth? Perhaps you don't need to wait until you die for the rebirth to take place. Just a thought. Liminal

Kunlun hit taobums by storm, but that was a few years ago. Now we don´t hear too much (much to the relief of many, I´m sure). I´ve practiced on and off and gotten considerable benefit mostly on an emotional level--calmer, less anxious, etc. It´s been a gratifying but less than mystical journey. No out-of-body experiences, spirit beings, not even the odd reptile to spice things up. Anyway, I´m at a stage of beginning the practice in earnest again, and miss the old kunlun forum. I miss the sense of a kunlun community of people sharing their experiences. I think it´s useful, inspiring, to hear about other´s people´s practice. So...any long-term kunlun practitioneers care to weigh in? Anybody quietly doing kunlun (or yi gong) all these years? How has your practice evolved? Anybody do kunlun for awhile and then quit? If so, why? (I always think it´s kind of pointless when original posters attempt to control the direction of their thread. People mostly say what they want to say regardless, and that´s probably for the best. Still, I hope this thread doesn´t devolve into another debate as to the basic merit of the Kunlun approach, especially if not informed by actual practice.)

Just like to echo the thoughts on holding a high intention. I find that with Kunlun in particular the practice really responds to my intention. It´s very practical and obvious. When I hold a high intention the energy changes. This is one of those things that isn´t really spelled out, in my experience anyway, but makes a huge, huge difference.

Gosh, looks like I´m not going to get lots of testimonials from long-term Kunlun practitioners. One possibility, of course, is that they don´t exist. Another is that the practice itself has molded them into very self-contained people disinclined to comment on their practice publicly unless they see a very good reason for doing so. I´m disappointed of course as I hoped to hear from them. Then again, perhaps their reticence to engage with this question is a sign of the wisdom that comes with practice. Perhaps their very silence is saying...¨you yourself will know the fruits of your own practice if you put out the effort to do it, you must answer your own question.¨ And perhaps that´s for the best.

This is very useful to me--thanks!

I really like these two assertions as kind of twin safegaurds against using the otherwise quite useful concept of kultivation in the service of kultivation itself. It would be so easy, for me anyway, to look at other supposedly less spiritually advanced taobums (kultivators), and imagine that as a true cultivator I´m somehow in another league. And yet this very process of demonizing some perceived untolerable other, holding it apart from oneself, is perhaps part and parcel of kultivation. If we are to stop kultivating, the first step is surely the willingness to look for and acknowledge our tendency to do so. I consider my own practice a mix of cultivation and kultivation. Much of what I do is in the service of integration and consciousness, but I´d be lying if I told you I don´t want to disappear, fly, and, my personal favorite, read everyone´s mind. Personally, I think all these things are possible and not bad in themselves. What gives the pursuit of them the flavor of kultivation is my motivation: the need to be better than everyone else in order not to feel less than everyone else. When I start to disappear and fly at will, I´m not going to announce my abilities in taobums. Everyone would just insist on a video, and then argue about whether or not it was faked. Who needs the hassle? I´ll feel mighty smug just the same though.

My take.... Kultivation: trying to convince oneself that one is OK (while deep down feeling anything but) through quasi-spiritual practice. Kultivators often try to obtain siddis, powers that seem superhuman. Ordinary human goodness isn´t enough to fill an inner void they can´t stand to acknowledge. I have a friend, a spiritual teacher actually, who went to a shaman who pronounced that he was from another planet. My friend was very proud of this. For all I know, it´s true--it certainly seems to fit. Nevertheless, I always tried to get him to embrace his human side. To be ok being an abnormal normal person like the rest of us. You don´t have to be an extraterrestrial to be worthy of love.

I'm interested in all things sacral and/or related to the root chakra. Could you say something more about how to do the anus breath? Thanks, Liminal

Skydog, When you say trauma release are you talking about David Bercelli's Trauma Release Exercises (TRE)? If so, I'd like to hear more about your experiences if you're willing to share. Thanks, Liminal

Everybodies different, but I say sexuality isn't only soft kisses and a gentle caress. Sometimes, male or female, we appreciate when our partners "work us good" and ask for exactly that. Sometimes to do just that is the most loving, sensitive thing we can do, all appearances to the contrary. To refuse to acknowledge this aspect of our erotic existence is to take some of the juice out of sex, and frankly, we need all the juice we can get.