liminal_luke

Hi Leon, The "Red Phoenix" practice has never been included in a book. If you can't go to a seminar you could probably get it from Max, or another teacher, through a skype session. I wouldn't sweat it much though. Jenny Lamb who taught Max Kunlun--though she calls it Yi Gong--doesn't teach red phoenix as part of the standard practice, and advised me not to do it. In any case, you can go very far without it. Liminal

I yawn when I do practices. In general, I think you can't go wrong following the lead of the body. If your body is doing something when you meditate chances are it's for a reason. Lower belly rumbling is a good sign. If, later on, your belly stops rumbling that's also a good sign. Liminal

I've always thought it odd that people imagine there's no prayer in the schools. How would they possibly know? The fervent inner thoughts of a silent believer who prays for prayers own sake--rather than to make a show or political statement--is perhaps the best kind of prayer. This kind of communion with the divine has never been, and will never be, against school rules. I imagine that even more vocal worship, when conducted among friends in an informal way--say on the playground or something-- would also get a pass. The only kind of prayer not allowed in schools is prayer presided over by a teacher, or otherwise formally sanctioned by the authorities, in such a way that non-believers might feel coerced into participation. Does God only listen to the pleas of the devout when they are forced into divine contemplation by their math instructor? Liminal

All traditions pick up cultural clutter: rules and regulations about how things should get done and who should do them that aren't strictly necessary for spiritual advancement. Read this book and not that one. Follow your teacher and no one else. Flowing Hands maintains that taoists shouldn't have Jesus in their hearts, and, as far as his corner of the taoist universe goes, I'm sure he's right. That kind of thinking doesn't sit well with me though. Guess I don't want anybody to tell me who to bring into my heart and who to kick out. Truth is, I'm not all that concerned with being a taoist. I just know that there's more to this world than meets the eye. There's more to being a human being than getting a good job, finding a life partner, having kids. And I'm on taobums to figure out what that something more is for me. Right now I feel mostly aligned with taoism. I like working with energy, feeling the warmth in my dan tien, learning about internal alchemy. But if Jesus has something to teach me I'll gladly set a plate for him at my inner table too. Liminal

I don't have personal experience with it, but I'd trust the equipment being sold by Coach Sommer of gymnasticbodies.com. Liminal

Theoretically, I don't have a problem with the scholarly study of the bible as a part of history. It obviously is a part of history; we can't really pretend otherwise. It's easy to imagine that the promoters of the class are being a little sly here though, that what they really want is to slip religious bible study into the curriculum undercover. The ironic thing is that a true historical study of the bible wouldn't fit in so well, I imagine, with religious values. Do Christians really want their sacred text studied dispassionately? Would they be ok with it being examined, and put in a cultural context, like any other text?

The tao that can fit in a box called "purely mechanical process" is not the real tao. Liminal

If anybody is willing to provide instructions for walking chi gung I'd be all ears. Failing that, is there a book or video you'd recommend, and, if so, why. Thanks! Liminal

An idea.... What about a pinned thread of "teachers statements." Any teacher who cared to could make just one posting with whatever they wanted to tell people about their classes or programs. This thread would not be open to discussion about the system from anybody else, nor could a teacher make more than one posting in the pinned thread. It would simply inform bums about the teaching. A teacher would be defined as anyone who charges money for classes, workshops, or materials such as books. Other than this one "teacher statement" thread, the teachers would have the same status as everyone else and anyone who wanted to comment on the teaching could in the regular forums where everyone has equal say, as always. Might be an additional way of getting information out there in a way while preserving, to my mind, the generally egalitarian flavor of the board. Liminal

Myself, I like the cafetaria set up of taobums where everyone has an equal voice. I'm not sure how active it is now, but awhile back there was a mentoring thread. People with something to teach could volunteer to teach individual bums that wanted to learn from them. I like that. Although I never made a formal request I could see learning feng shui or chinese astrology from Taomeow, breathwork from JoeBlast. Could be great. This kind of setup, however, amounts to a learning relationship between two people and preserves the principle of equal standing of members generally. I don't think taobums is a great place to set up shop as a teacher. What we do excel at is providing a place where people can learn about teachers who are out there and then go take classes from them if they are so inclined. One teacher who, in my opinion, very successfully navigates the dynamics of taobums is YaMu. He hasn't explained exactly how to do stillness/movement online but through his commentary, and that of his students, I've learned about his school. I've checked out his website and considered taking his workshops. If it weren't for Taobums I don't think I'd ever have learned about his teachings. Liminal

Some questions to consider... I think a lot of the time when we're not doing something it's because there's at least a part of us that doesn't want to do it. So...do you really want to make small talk? If you could make small talk, would you? Do you value small talk, or are you in some way proud of the fact that it's hard for you now? If, for instance, you hold the believe that spiritual people don't engage in light frivolous conversation then that would obviously get in the way. Liminal

I'm no professor, but thought I'd chime in with my experience. For awhile I preceeded a breathing practice with some self chi nei tsang...making small circles with my finger fixed at different points around my navel. It's a technique described in the book Unwinding the Belly and referred to in chi nei tsang as Opening the Wind Gates. Anyway, I mention this because afterwards I noticed my breath was much softer, everything more relaxed. My two cents. Liminal

At the risk of sounding like one of those quasi-scientific newage types who spout off about quantum this and that with no knowledge of physics, I'd like to borrow a technical term from a subject I know little about as a metaphor. I just love the concept of false yang from chinese medicine You know, something that looks like real yang but isn't. Seems to me that when people talk about maturity and fun they are mostly talking about false maturity and false fun. False fun is what immature people do when they want to look like they are having a good time. False maturity is the pose of people who don't know how to enjoy themselves but want to be respected. One hallmark of true maturity is a capacity for real fun. Liminal

Thanks Balance. What you said about the highest intention reminded me of a time when I wanted that. I've been sidetracked for awhile with lesser goals, and forgot. Appreciate the help. Liminal

I say let's keep the level playing field. As it is, everyone is welcome to claim whatever knowledge, abilities, or authority they like and the rest of us are free to doubt or believe as we will. I like that. Being a teacher, even one with a degree and a world-wide reputation that spans decades, doesn't mean much. Look at Master Mantak Chia. He's arguably done more than anyone else to bring taoist practice to the West and yet many warn against him. I shudder to think what would happen if he arrived one day to instruct new bums how to pack their chi until they're red in the face, and use the "million dollar point" to manually stop ejaculation. Not that he'd advocate any such thing these days. I'm just sayin'. I'm betting people would come out of the woodwork to debunk him, and perhaps rightly so. The level playing field allows for that. Bums don't need a special label of "teacher" to figure out who knows what they are talking about and who doesn't. Usually people's posts speak for themselves.

I don't think there's any lack of teachers here on taobums. Some of the best don't use taobums as a platform to attract students for formal classes and workshops--but the wisdom, and sometimes practices, they share are no less valuable for not being offered in a commercial way. The quality of advice and guidance available here for free often surpasses what is available for a price elsewhere. Liminal

What, no context? For a reply to be meaningful, it would have to take into account who you are. There's no one-size-fits-all answer to your question. More info please. Liminal

Oh, I dunno. Have you checked out the penis whisperer thread? The whole topic of retention, a perenial taobums favorite, is pretty darn fringe--or so my friends tell me. Actually, any spiritual strivings that fall outside of once weekly church attendence are suspect in the eyes of many. Here at taobums there's still plenty of room for weird. Liminal

A wild chapter in Taobums history for sure. Personally, I loved it (a sentiment not universally shared). I've been very on/off about my Kunlun practice but it's still very much part of what I do. Wish it had more buzz now. I get the feeling that even the people who did Kunlun and liked it have mostly moved on to other things.

I picked "same." As in the past, there's an abundance of very high quality posting, and a smattering of not so high quality posting. But that doesn't have much to do with the quality of my time here. It's like food. There's a Burger King wherever you go, but it doesn't effect you until you pull into the drive-through. It's a choice. Usually I can quickly tell, often just from the title, whether a thread is likely to offer quality spiritual nourishment. If I choose to go slumming in the Taobums redlight district or get into flame wars about eating/not eating meat, well, that's on me. Liminal

Saying something negative about journaling is the taobums equivilent of hating kittens but here goes. Writing about spiritual experience can engage the analytical mind prematurely. Attempt to nail down misty alchemical processes with a relatively clumsy tool like language and a fragile process bubbling beneath the surface might short-circuit. Another pitfall. Using journaling to reinforce our ego as a cultivator, at the expense of the cultivation. I look back at my record and think, "hey, look what a good meditator I am." That's not all bad, of course. There's a place for legitimate pride. But we can cultivate for the kudos (even just the ones we give ourselves) rather than for the sheer joy of the practice itself. Ah, who am I kidding--I love journaling. Liminal

In the second part of the Red Phoenix practice the energy is brought back down. Unfortunately perhaps, part two isn't always taught along with part one, so I see what you mean. No, no rainbow body yet. This thread now stretches to a good 8 pages, so I'm assuming it's not limited to those who know about immortality from personal experience.

Not to beat an immortal pony, but Max says that by combining Kunlun with Red Phoenix, the two main practices in his system, practitioners can achieve the rainbow body. Whether this is true or not, I couldn't tell ya but thought I'd throw it out there. Liminal

The trouble with immortality is that you have to merge with the Tao to get it. And it's precisely the part of myself that resists merging with the Tao that wants immortality. Liminal

Docinthedesert, Although I haven't been so disciplined of late, I notice that when I eat primal/paleo-esque my health improves measurably. I can't tell you what "traditional taoists" eat because I really don't know, but I will say this: it's very difficult to grow spiritually when your body is unhealthy. So if what you're eating is giving you radiant health I say it's taoist. Liminal