DentyDao

All you had to do was ask.

I'm writing a book with Rene Navarro (one of the founding members of the Healing Dao) on David, with his blessing. Much will be shared openly and many will come to have their beliefs tested and proved.

The best way to use my time right now is to focus on the book. But I can assure you that I am working hard on that.

Sean

Jesse,

Thanks for your kind words. What I wrote will remain as it is for people to see and consider. As I said Wang sifu is not a public figure and neither I nor David would make such claims.

I understand you disagree with Wang Liping's choice not to reveal these teachings to the public. He is as I said writing a book with David and this will contain some good outer teaching at a low cost, the price of the book.

I also get it that you were not pleased that the forum is now charging for membership. As a former member yourself, I think you know that the forum was open to the public for over one year free of charge. David asked that we close it so that we can begin to giving online teaching and charge a fair cost for his time. I am sorry that this may have caused some bad feelings on your part. That was not our intention.

I know that you have paid the membership fee to the foundation forum and were perhaps put off when I asked you what your interest in joining was. I can assure you that this is the same for everyone and I am happy to either refund your money or activate your membership. Of course it might be a little embarressing for you to do that at this point, but I think we've all been there.

As you know we have are own ideas about cultivation and what constitutes success in Daoist practice. While these ideas might be controversal, we do not impose them on others or ask people to partcipate. Nor do David or Wang Liping publicly criticize any teacher or system.

I'm glad that you are happy with you low cost, but apparently very good practice. I'm sure that there are some very enlightened teachers teaching for free. I don't think it serves much purpose to blast teachers who do charge for their time as that is their right to charge what they see fit. ; this is not a moral issue of rich vs. poor, it is simply an extra task for interested students to complete as they progress.

David his masters and his students that teach, prefer to work with very commited students, thisis why they charge a fair cost to prospective students.

Yours, Sean

As you wish Jesse,

What David offers is simple. Come as you are and rise a Knight. Confident and secure in the truth which cannot be shown or proven, but must be believed.

Dear Dao Zhen (Jesse),

People are free to draw whatever conclusions they want to. I won't comment further.

To most Wang Liping is a fairy tale, as it should be.

I'll have to leave this one alone.

The government has apparently, from what I understand, chosen to endorse Wang Liping in an effort to 'promote' Daoism and set up formal standards for Daoist practice throughout China; this is all unfolding in the coming years. I would not be surprised if the officials you speak with have no idea what I'm talking about.

Never the less, I stand by what I have said and if I'm wrong I'll write here to correct my statements.

Again, I will try to write more about my experiences to help clarify soon.

I'm sure there are other masters who have much to offer in the temples of China and I'm sure there are teachings outside of the Long Men Pai that are very high. I'm not trying to suggest that Wang Liping is 'the' only authority on Daoism.

Again what I'm sharing is from the source, so wrong or right, that's what I heard from Wang Liping and I think he is pretty honest as far as living Buddhas go.

Yes, he is. I'll write a little about it so people can get a clearer picture.

Hi Allen,

I hope I can help clear up your concern about David. He and Wang Liping are writing a book together on the secret of the golden flower. Actually the title is a mistranslation; modern scholars don't really have a clue.

The book (no book does) does not show you how to do the practice and many of the texts are incorrect in their theory and translation. The stuff that's out there on this practice is greatly flawed and incomplete; some of this is intentional.

Sifu Wang intends to give the Gong only (outer teaching). His hope is that lay people will benifit and that some will reach a good level to go further.

David is one of two students to ever actually receive permission to teach Long Men Pai from Sifu Wang. I will post some more info soon to share about the experiences I had with Wang Liping. Hopefully that will paint a little clearer picture of David's relationship to Sifu and put to rest the doubts that people will naturally want to express.

S

From my experience in speaking with other Taoists - those in a standard sect and living in a temple area such as "Wudang Purple Heaven Temple, Huashan Jade Spring Temple, Louguantai Terrace, or Baiyunguan White Cloud Temple" or those Taoists who are part of a sect and not living in a temple, but live in the city, many do not think highly of Wang Liping, and in fact there are many Taoists who think he is a fake, false, and the book he wrote is a lie in order to promote himself and be able to charge large amounts of money to foreign students for workshops.

 

The above is not my opinion.

 

I can say nothing as I have not met him.

 

But I am repeating what other Taoists who have much experience have said.

 

Teacher Wang Liping is not responsible for overseeing all Taoist Temples in China.

 

Hey,

What I'm sharing here is not common knowledge in China. Wang Liping does oversee the official goverment sanctioned curriculum for Daoist temples in China. That was my understanding from speaking with him personally; I will check and see if my statement is incorrect. He is not a public figure for many reasons.

Of couse he is not in the public eye and so people will say whatever they want based on their opinions of his book. He has long been a controversial figure among monks and in the temples. Lot's of juicy gossip. Time will tell; his influence may never really be revealed to the public as he does not wish to become famous any more than he already is.

Obviously, most if not all of my statements are meant to be controversial and oppose the Daoist main stream in China.

I'm not saying that Liping is in charge of every temple or that he personally enforces what is taught. Monks and lay people teach and practice many different things outside of what the government has established.

You are correct that David is not obligated to answer any of the questions Gamuret posed, but it would improve his credibility immensely if he did.

I am kind of awestruck that you guys aren't more interested in David's background seeing the amount of time and money invested in his system, but it might be in your nature to be more trusting of people than I am. I wish you well in your training Sean.

David has proved his abilities and qualifications to me and many of his students because we asked him to directly in a sincere way instead of expecting his students to prove something via chatroom/forum on the internet.

Look, David just isn't interested in what people in forums think. He doesn't care or need to care. If people had contacted me in a sincere way and told me they have a low income, I would have happily addressed all the issues raised without charging for forum access. This whole effort to confront David via Taobums is pointless, he doesn't even follow the forum, or any forum for that matter except the student forum.

The whole thing is just childish; that's why I stopped intiating posts on Taobums about David months ago.

Anyway, I wish you the best too.

Sean

Give me $2800 USD and i will talk to you about it.

They have indeed offered it.

Please elaborate, If you tell me who, and it is indeed a student who has given actual training info and secrets, I will pay you $300.00 USD. I will even give the money to Sean Olmar to hold, he's very skeptical of us, so you can rest assured he's not biased. I can send the money via paypal today.

Sean

Ok. Since Wang Liping taught 'you' his inner most secrets, where is the 'germinal vesicle' located?

No idea.

i wish you the best as well, i just gotta call bullshit when i smell it

 

i don't foresee being on the West Coast for a bit. If you are within 5 hours or so of me then i'll definitely try to sync up with you.

 

This all poses the greater question though, of why you don't just post these videos (at least clips), if they would in fact answer my questions (and those of others). i remain skeptical, in the extreme, that they do (for this reason).

That would be up to David who prefers not to, probably wise I would say. Anyway, I would but I don't have permission to share with nonstudents.

Like I said I'll happily do what I can.

This is fine but if you attend a seminar once a year and are a beginner right now then it is likely you will find many difficulties.

...i'll add another: Proof of even having mastered Yang Qi to an extraordinary degree. Yin and Yang is ALWAYS "joined" in the body or there would be no life! What Yin-Yang Kung fusion entails is different (but similar), drawing on the Yin throughout the body, the extraordinary amount of Yang Qi in the Dan T'ien being used to draw in more Yin qi through the body; then drawn and merged together (fused), and stored in the dan t'ien. IF successful, he would be able to do electrogenesis.

David has reached level four and he can and has demonstrated this and I would be happy to show you the video privately. The Mopai is a branch of the Lei Shan Dao, of which David is a student. There are around 12 methods within the Lei Shan Dao and five 'cords' that are cut to become level four; the cords to be cut are the same for all branches of the Lei Shan Dao. While the school that David belongs to uses some methods in common with Mopai, there are differences. The outcome is the same and produces the same effects and abilities.

It's true that not all practitioners who can generate 'electric like qi' belong to Lei Shan Dao or have cut the cords required to achieve 'level four.' David has and he was clear about this. Now that it's out there, it can either be believed or not, but that is the stance that David has taken.

If he had taught David then there would likely be mention of this by a known member of the Mo Pa'i (not just some unnamed guy who "knows" John Chang, as so many do).

The argument is NOT about John Chang, it is about David, Sean, Harry, you and your momma. Stop trying to obfuscate the issue by talking about someone legitimate and then acting as this legitimizes David for POSSIBLY having MET him!

As well, some of the longest living Daoist "immortals" were vegetarians, INCLUDING Li, Ching-Yuen. Maybe they were on to something. Still, your comparison is like a prostitute pointing to married women promising their husband sex (or something particularly kinky), in exchange for a favor. So if a woman is going to use sex to get her man to do something then she might as well be a prostitute, right? This is the logic of saying that if you eat meat then you might as well torture animals and feed of their pain and terror.

The animals, which are going to be slaughtered in anycase, are treated with respect, not tortured, and allowed to live peacefully in their last weeks before being taken to market. Daoists are very practical people and this is an ancient practice that predates any written history. Daoism, because of its nature was never fully established in to a creed; and its doctrines means and practices were transmitted 'outside the canon' of formal religious belief, maintaining a purity and a freedom from any conceptual and biased belief, allowing them to truly reach beyond names and forms and the illusions of good and evil.

David is offering to teach you low level Qi Leaching techniques.

Only a student would know the full extent of what David teaches and none have offered that information on this forum or any other public forum.

Still, i will accept to meet with you if you are anywhere reasonably near me. Please let me know.

I will let you know and you can also contact me if you are ever in New York, I would be happy to show you what I have. I understand the reluctance to travel, we all have busy lives.

Anyway, despite all the back and forth, I wish you the best and I hope that I am able to give more info in the future.

Sincerely, Sean

P.S. You said that they should ask David directly. Is David's email still the same? (taje...)

Am I allowed to pass it on, so that they can write to him directly?

The email is the same. Please keep it for yourself as David does not wish to be flooded with email; this would probably force him to close the account.

He was not pleased with your actions, as you probably can guess for yourself, but David is a pretty understanding guy. Just to say, if you approach him with a little care and sincerity, he will smile, forgive and respond in kind way; Not that what you did was so terrible, just offensive.

I am inspired now to write something here in the next few days. I have a deep heart connection to my teacher, so I have to be careful; but I also know that there are members here who will understand and benifit so perhaps I can share a little more if people are interested.

I want people to know that there is no wall keeping them from the teachings except the one they create. This goes for anyone, not just David or Wang Liping. Anyone can connect with any teacher. Just dedicate to your meditation and you don't need email or phone numbers to connect with any Buddhas.

There is no requirement to join the forum. People can see all the seminars offered to first time students on the website.

These battles are created by fear. Everyone can become self realized, doesn't matter how many connections you do or don't have.

Ok, now let's calm down everybody.

 

First of all, please send my congratulations to David for having completed his PhD.

 

Second, Gamuret, you shouldn't leave, since you started this whole thread of looking for credentials.

I am not surprised that Sean refused to provide information if you kept your veil of anonymity. DO you remember how I too refused to answer questions, if you kept yourself anonymous.

 

But I have no such veil, and I am dying of curiosity to know more about David's work.

 

Now please understand that for what I know PhD's are always public. In the sense that the thesis is a public document. That can be read by anyone, cited by anyone, and that will remain in the archives in secula seculorum. So maybe David has been involved in some secret, close door research, but if this is so, it really shouldn't be used in advertisment. At least to avoid things like this to happen. And for sure it's result cannot be part of the PhD,... because PhD are public documents.

 

But really Sean, please understand the whole thing is not disrespectful in any way. I mean, I have a PhD. I am VERY happy when people ask for it, because maybe they will read it and will bring on my work. And generally the more people work on your track, the more your sphere of interest gets fundings, gets interest, and so on. The more the world will be interested in my work, and the more I get to investigate my natural sphere of interest, as opposed to working on some other's projects.

 

Sean, people are just showing interest for your teacher, and they are going to a great length to look what is publicly available on him.

 

Not only is this not a disrespectful request by any standard, not only it is standard guideline, but also there is no privacy protecting this information. A PhD is a public document. In some countries the defence (the final exam) is private. But the actual PhD. The actual thesis, that is public. Like an article in a peer reviewed news paper. In german universities, to get the final result, you need to give them 50 copies so that they can send them to all the German universities. I understand this might be seen as very archaic, but I am sure you understand the point.

Pietro,

I'm not offended by your request. Both my Parents have PhDs and I have a terminal dgree in my field; I'm well aware of the public nature of the work associated with earning a PhD. I asked David last night if he has a PhD and he said yes.

When I was at David's house in China, Sifu Liping explained to the group that David's Tu Di Status was approved by the government. David showed us the legal documents stating that. If people do a little research, they would know that earning such an endorsment is much more meaningful than earning a PhD and much harder to do.

There is really nothing to hide, but what people don't seem to understand is the simple fact that I'm simply one of many of David's students and it doesn't fall to me publically present this material. I simply don't know enough.

The appropraite thing to do is ask David. He doesn't ned anyone's approval or care what the Taobum community thinks he is not tied to nor attached to what you or others know or think they know. For my part, I have really shared what I felt like sharing.

I understand that you knew David a long time ago. Things have changed.

If anyone cares to dig a little, they will find that Wang Liping is well known in China. He holds several positions in the government as well as the medical, religious and academic branches of the government at a national level. He has gone to great lengths to remain a private person, but that is changing and he is lately in the media in China a bit; this will continue as he leads the government in presenting Daosim to the international community in the next decade.

I know that underneath all the rudeness and aggressive challenges, people just want to know what the deal is with David and his teachers. Fair enough, but they have little interest in educating the online community. The forum and website are the work of students and they are works in progress. Remember, I didn't post about the website here, someone else did.

For those that are sincere, I invite you to wait; in the next few years it is likely that more info will gradually be made available. For time being, somethings will have to remain a mystery; there are many reasons for this.

Sean

Maybe he read the other thread where Sean posted the PM of others, and assumed that he would not mind.

It's fine that Gamatute posted my PMs. I stand by what I wrote. Of course I try to be more polite in public these days so you will have to forgive the "you might be some punk' as that was meant for his ears only.

Just so you know, most people would be offended if they got a request like this, this is one about about five like this:

Gamarute

Thank you, I do appreciate it. But really try to address the questions themselves. As I told you, if you don't know, just say: "I don't know". If you don't have the permission to tell or don't want to do it, just say: "Sorry, I don't want" or "I'm not allowed to say."

 

I'd also appreciate it if the answers regardinf Da Zhen and the 300-year old or so Masters would contain information not mentioned in your old posts. Otherwise you are just wasting your and my time.

 

And please, concrete answers if you can. No fluff, no philosophy, no touchy-feely moving stories. There already too much of those on this forum authored by various people.

 

Again sorry for being so blunt! Take care.

 

G.

 

P.S. Don't forget Verdesi's credentials or at least try to ask him about it.

Actually Sean, this is not true. If you are emailed you will talk long enough to ask for money to talk further. This is something unparalleled with some of the greatest Shrfu i have ever encountered.

If he has a PhD then why was it previously stated that he did not? If he has a PhD then where and what was his thesis on? If he has one then he is the ONLY PhD i have heard of who refuses to tell you where his PhD was obtained and what it is on.

I'll make you a deal Hern; since you said you don't have a lot of money, I will give you a hour of my time one on one for free. You can call or meet me in person. Same goes for Gameraut. I'll show you video footage and pictures of me with Sifu and David in David's house. I will answer all questions openly.

503-304-0173

Let's not fuck up this forum with any more useless, immature back and forth because of personal agenda.

 

P. S. Just now it came to my ears that David supposedly lives in Dalian, Liaoning province, China, where also his teacher Wang Liping lives.

 

As said I'm not interested in this discussion anymore. Will do my own research.

That's fine and I wish you the best, but you should know that neither David or Wang Liping live in Dalian; they recently held a seminar there, but they don't live there. I can't tell you where they live, but I'll give you a hint, it's further south. I actually left some clues, maybe you can figure it out. I actually wish you well in your search.

Hey,

You forgot to post your PMs demanding phone calls to David and refusing to speak with me over the phone, why?

Anyway the offer stands, for people without an agenda. Just email me, I'm open to anyone with a sincere interest.

S

Okay, so which is it? Did he obtain a PhD or not.

Yes.

Accordingly, my support, money and complicity in your scam is also denied

...sound of crickets chirping...

i (and many others), ask for some demonstration that your teacher is a capable teacher

Request denied.

Cheers, S

Sean. If you like to continue. I have lost the sense for it.

I'm good.