DentyDao

Hi all,

I would just like to say that there is an honest debate taking place on the HT forum. Personally, I feel that, far from the yang infused ego stuggle that some have made it out to be, this is a constructive dialoge between two people, who, underneeth a stong difference of opinion genuinely care about the people affected by such things. Frankly, all this talk of harmony and cooperation is a little over preached. It's natural and healthy to have different points of view and even when it's a bit heated, it's important to find the truth in all of this.

John Chang, in the beginning, wanted to help humanity by training masters who would work with people to push the envelope of human understanding and consciousness. Sadly it was not to be, because of the immaturity of the people to caught up in greed and jealosy to see the good that could have come out of it.

The reasons I'm sharing my views and the opportunity presented, simply comes from a desire share and I truly gave nothing to gain from either my critism of the HT methods or the offer to study with David.

You might be interested in the ongoing discussion there, which I am now commited to following through in order to offer a different point of view than the one Michael has been offering since I met him in 98. Just for the record, I did earn my certification and practiced the methods taught for five years, everday. During three of these, I lived with Michael at the Healing Dao Center in the Catskills. I was on good terms with every senior instructor that taught there and was present during many public and private conversations with senior instructors who where there and expressed their concerns about the practices and limitations of this system.

Warm regards, Sean

Wow! where did this come from? Challenge the information but don't take a wild pot shot out of nowhere at a dream image. You studied 'all' his posts? You do realize you're railing away at dream images don't you? Let's get back to the moment and discuss what is being said. He put some information out there..maybe you don't like it or are uncomfortable with it..what is it that ticked you off about the post.

T

Actually it was the "Big Bitch" comment, among a few other choice ones, that I find a little silly. And this person expresses an interest in joining the group I'm organizing?

Actually Dots, you're welcome to come if you're really serious, which I doubt. Why don't you just ask the questions you want to ask instead of trying to slam me; which only calls attention to that fact that you are obiously interested, but to afraid to say so because you think I'll tell you what a loser you are. The truth is I don't know you and I'm not really in a position to say who can participate and who can't. That's up to David.

I am offering, as I have said before, to answer any and all serious questions about my experiences and the opportunities presented. Obviously, nobody would be comfortable taking a risk on this training without knowing what they are getting into; which is why I have been privately corrisponding and fielding questions to those who are really interested and have taken two minutes to say so by emailing me.

Pretty simple really, Sean

We oldsters need to fight against stuffiness. The thought that 'obviously' our way is best. The impulse to say 'stop you're going to hurt yourself'.

Michael

Point taken, but there's nothing wrong with learning some manners. I actually admire tripple dots wild abandon, but some things go a little far and I felt like saying so.

SeanD,

 

Thanks for the indepth post. I learned a lot from it. Many people here, certainly I, have a prejudice against the old fashion Guru model. Its so important to see other practices with more depth then a few lines of print.

 

Yours

 

Michael

You're welcome. Unfortunitly, most westerners hold these concerns about guru's because of ones who are just out to control people. The Truth is, the guru devotee relationship is beautiful bond of love between friends. The HT's warnings about controling guru's over that last two decades are largly a marketing ploy in my opinion.

Anyway, David's relationship with his teachers is one of deep friendship, not control and obedience.

here is another cool forum... they're all over the place!

Thanks for that triple dot. Most of the information shared in your posting is a least partly incorrect, but since your whole basis for viewing the world is obviously gathered from books and other snippets of emails you find on the net, this really comes as no surprise.

I see the type of behavior you have exhibeted all over this website everyday in my classroom of young teenagers. The sense of entitlement, fueled by a lack of maturity and false pride is all to common in our modern day. Your generation, largly raised on TV and video games has a lot of growing up and catching up to do to do. God help you.

Thanks for the good words and support. Feel free to post the links.

Best

There's a few new points in the above letter too; incase your interested.

You might be intested in this post regarding opportunities to meet a master: http://www.thetaobums.com/index.php?showto...1864&st=100

As to the sex question, I really couldn't spectulate, but I would invite you to consider that overcoming desire might not negate the possibility of enjoyment. The historical Buddha was a rather happy fellow and, even though, he didn't have a girl friend, many Buddhas do have girl friends and seem to rather like getting it on if the pictures painted of them hold any truth.

There is no question that David might be a much better alternative then Ht people in terms of authentisity. He is lucky to have such dedicated students that have full trust and faith in him and his teachings.

 

A few question:

-Why does he have so many teachers? Wouldn't it be better to focus on one path?

-Does the display of the superpowers mean the person is spiritually evolved?

-If one is in full control of his mind and sexual energy, why is there a need for sex?

 

Thanks.

1. David has spent the last 15 years traveling in Asia and much of that researching as an anthropologist. He has met and studied with many masters, but always trained in withteh method that he feels is the best; the one he currently teaches. Several of his masters teach this method and it is also common to, I think, three of the major lines of the Dao, making it an ideal method.

The fact that David has trained many masters and received the blessing of these masters, who use their qi to greatly speed up the progress of the practice, has benifited his practice and understanding in many ways. While each master has something different to offer, David has commited himself to the Lei Shan Dao training that he is currently undergoing for the next two to three years. Meaning that Sherfu J is his primary master and the one who's method David personally trains in. The Dao is vast and there is much to learn.

2. Superpowers are simply a natural outcome of correct practice and, as such, they represent a much more profound internal transformation. As many of you have rightly stated, these powers are not the goal. They are however very specific indications of the level of internal development of "the body-mind" of a given individual.

3. If one is in full control of his mind and sexual energy, why is there a need for sex? Having sex is not part of the method of practice, but many people have sex for personal enjoyment; from what I've gathered, most of the masters have a pretty normal sex life. I guess I'm not sure what your asking here?

Best, Sean

How can we meet this guy? I would make the trip. Is it possible?

Time to seriously learn some mandarin..

T

Yes, it's possible this could be arranged. More information soon.

If he adds a 0 to his offer, anything can be arranged.

But Plato is right- why bother waiting for someone to come in when you can go China and maybe find

.

Why China? Why not?

Lou is an old master of David's and a good friend of his most current master, Sherfu J. This is just one master that David introduces to his students. I guess he doesn't take many students.

Best, Sean

There's a saying, when you meet a master swordsman, show him your sword. Now we're not all masters here but we are all into this stuff far more than your random person off the street. So we just want to hear some meat. My issue with the Kostas books and all the posts is that there is alot of bashing, but no meat. Not even any preliminary practice that would ring true as 'yeah, we need to pursue this more, there's something here'. I couldn't care less about fireballs and walking through walls. If you got something, we're all willing..more than willing to be open to it. But it's been a couple days now of carrot dangling...

just my two cents.

T

Sorry, I just want to be clear. What exactly do mean by meat?

 

Ok, so I guess I should stop. (lol...)

Yes, because your going to hurt yourself.

Honestly though, how can you justify even saying that? It is what I have figured out (experientally) for myself to be probably one of the more effective practices I stumbled across... So of course I should pursue it...

John Dijang has never successfully taught any student to reach the basic acheivment of level four. In thirty years no one has been successful. 60% of the students who train with him, even at the lowest level, end up with serious health issues. And your claiming you have just figured it out on your own?

I feel like I am pursuing the better of two choices and am being insulted for it. I may be a failure, but this sort of thing is relly important to me and I am really offended that you would say something like that, apparantly just for the sake of saying it... (because I can't imagine why you would bother to tell me that other than to suggest I stop trying... which is ridiculous, and you should know that.)

I'm not trying to insult you, I just want you to avoid health problems. I could be wrong; perhaps your on to something. If this is the case than more power to you.

In a few days, I'll post a few final reflections and give some resources for those who care to delve further. I will include details about the abilities I was shown and perhaps talk briefly about the various levels of this type of training and the abilities that indicate mastery over these levels or achievments. At that point, I will have shared what I think is reasonable and sensable. I hope that this becomes a stepping stone for those of you who were taken with Kostas writing, if you wish it. That's really all I'm trying to do here.

Thank you, Sean

Hey Sean,

No offense meant! Perhaps "seeking companions on the way" works better as an expression of what I think you want.

So far in my humble experience,with the master's I have met, I have found massive egos still well situated among their many other attributes.

Humility, compassion, perseverance and stoicism are what I look for now. In myself and my fellow humans. I know I lack these traits much of the time and hope to become more open to my potential for them. The power I seek is no longer martial - as it once was. Any teacher who shows me such traits will have my attention.

Getting back "into shape" holds some interest also. Still, at 52 I'm likely too old a dog for new training...&

I do not see myself needing to walk through walls anytime soon.

But as the "original Yoda" minght say... It's ready to listen, I am.

Is your teacher likely to want to meet a cranky middle-aged stoic & middle-way walker?

No offense taken. 52 is young baby! By the way the Gong that I speak of is not martial in nature.

Yes, we have some cranky old people in our group already, so maybe you could cheer them up.

Hey Wayfarer,

Sean,

You are starting to sound like a recruiter for your system and your teacher.

This is a very interesting thread and many serious topics have been raised. But if it is about bringing new students to your teacher than let us know that also.

I don't think I could make it any clearer. I wouldn't use the term recruite.

I've done a bit of cloud busting...

 

I've seen people blasting clouds away, having a maximum of 20 minutes training.

Really? The people at Shaolin Wahnam are claiming this is high level stuff. Maybe I'll get out there and see if I can bust up some clouds.

breaking bricks might take longer to master - but it's no 'walking through solid walls'... that's altogether something different. You're right - this stuff needs to be seen to be believed - and however trustworthy other people seem, I'd have to see it for myself - to verify its truth for me.

I know how you feel.

what still mistifies me is 'what one does to be able to do these things'. As you say it's all good when someone's claiming they're enlightened, that they have super-human powers... but how is this achieved? what fundamental difference is in their practice that allows them such a huge difference than 'us'?

As I said before, you need three things to be successful; correct method, correct technique and a teacher who's interested in teaching and has the ability. The Healing Dao has none of the three requirements.

I've seen some amazing things that would shift most people's idea of human ability... but slicing through bananas, pushing over objects without touching, walking through solid walls etc. is something that's so distant from my experience that it's still unbelievable.

Normal

Especially since you condemn many of our practices as ineffective - when many of us have had a lot success and some facinating experiences with them... was what we experienced not real? - was it only the tip of the proverbial iceberg?

Oh? do tell.