DentyDao

With respect to the content of Chia's Cultivating Male Sexual Energy, I've found every single thing in it to be factual...

So, what have you objectively achieved? And oh ya, what is the goal of this practice? Hey look, I went 3 months without ejactulating, I get a gold star.

Frankly it's perplexed me ever since I've looked into Taoism beyond my own experience how there could be so many people who found fault with Chia.

It's not your fault that you were fooled; Chia makes the wizard of Oz look like credible. At least the great wizard is handing out brains.

Keep practicing your penis torture methods, call me in five years and we'll have a little chatski. You can even join the ex Healing Dao Anonymous where we get together once a week and help build back our dignity through the twelve steps. Oh the shame.

In the mean time, rub a couple out; just to remind yourself that you can. You can always earn ejaculation points back.

Seriously though, Chia is the Vanilla Ice of Daoism. In China what he's doing is virtually viewed as criminal behavior and he has absolutely no credibility there. You may be familiar with master Hua-Ching Ni, a taoist practitioner of at least some basic achievement. He wrote several popular works on Daoist cultivation. Anyway, up until the late nineties, his TCM clinic in Los Angels was the recovery center for many Healing Dao casualties. He even became openly critical of Chia because so many people were walking through the doors of his clinic with serious issues.

The sadest truth of all is that Chia never mastered the sexual practices that form the basis of the Healing Dao System. I know what you're thinking,"It's not possible, Chia is a sex god." Jiao Dao Yin, the name for practices that Chia was attempting to duplicate, are a minor Dao practice used to recover Jing. Jing, in terms of actual cultivation, has much less to do with the sex glands or sex for that matter than most know. That's why you can tell a teacher who is full of shit right off the bat when they start talking about jing and sexual essence (unless they are talking about TCM). Which is not to say that some periods of abstenence aren't prescribed; but please don't go five years without ejaculating, pretending to having 'whole body orgasms.'

What people in the Healing Dao are actually practicing is medical Qigong. They might not know it or want to admit it, but it's true. In China these types of exercises are prescribed for older men who suffer from sexual disfunction. For normal, healthy adults the practices carry as much health risk as they do chances of creating health. And they are certainly not going to prolong your life. That's the level of ignorance here in the west. If your Chinese and you say you're a master, who can argue; most of us have nothing to compare it to. I will spare you the stories of Chia's misadventures in China searching for a real master trying to bribe young Daoist monks with beer and cigarettes to give him the sercret methods to immortality.

Throughout the years many senior instructors and former students have related their sad stories to me, enough to write a book really. Anyway, I would look else where. In any case, good luck with your practice. I'm sure there are many members here who would be more than happy to recommend safer practices.

My recommendation is to just go get laid like crazy (without all the simulated seizures) for a few months, just to sober yourself up. Your testicals are not a piggy bank and they're not magic either.

One thing I can say for sure; this illustration has nothing to do with any of the practices outlined in the Healing Dao system. At least accept that and then maybe you can find some decent commentary that would give you a few clues.

Best, Sean

Sorry you're so exasperated.

Just amused really.

If you have another understanding of the picture then say it.

Michael

It's just painful (painfully funny) to watch people fumbling around with made up concepts that have no relevance to the actual meaning of the work in question. It's like watching a couple of college students get dressed up like knights in shining armor to go to the library and play Dungeons & Dragons. It's all good fun, but there's always a few who take it too far and start acting like the game is reality.

These posts are about the picture and interpretations of it. Please chime in about the top, bottom or middle. Does your teacher use the picture to explain things?

What would be the point? You can sit here all day and play guessing games and that's not going to bring you any closer to solving it; it's not a puzzle. I know the basic meaning to the first step of the process that is illustrated here, but, even if I explained it, it wouldn't do anyone any good without the technique and method that correspond.

If you want to understand this, you need to meet a person who's accomplished it and stop dreaming.

Just my two cents, S

Its as factual as any interpretation of religious art. Its a pretty famous picture. The above is Chia's interpretation of it through his lense of Healing Tao practice. Here's what another site had to say about it:

 

The painting, together with the Xiu Zhen Painting, are very important in Tao pursuing process. Some qigong master tell their disciples that when they know all the skills they need the two paintings for direction. They mean this one and the Xiu Zhen Painting. Inner Landscape of Human's Body shows practitioners in a very abstract way of all all necessary points in the human's body and their roles they played in the qigong practice. It is not easy nowadays to get the painting. In fact it is a very eye-catching painting.

 

If you're asking if Chia's whole system is fact or fiction, well thats another can of worms.

 

 

Michael

I know what it is Michael; you seem to be under the mistaken impression that many things are 'open to interpretation.' As for the painting, it's meaning is given in our school as part of the lineage transmission we receive. The above interpretation is totally flawed in so many ways that I couldn't even begin to address them. Good lord, the fantasy never ends!!!

Whatev, S

"There are differences between what Robert Peng does and the teaching within the Lei Shan Dao. The main one being that in Lei Shan Dao the goal is liberation and enlightenment (not necessarely the case with other methods)."

Sean, what do you mean by liberation and enlightenment?

 

My understanding is that Lei Shan Dao electric phenomena occurs because the practitioner has built up sufficient energy in the dan tien which, frankly, can then be used or not used for a variety of purposes.

 

I'm not sure that liberation or enlightenment are really relevant to that ernergy build up.

 

If this build up is just an initial stage toward liberation, then again I ask the question, what do you mean by liberation? (And how is that different, if at all, from what you mean by enlightenment?).

To give a proper answer would involve a few more pages of discussion. Best if those interested check out the forum. There are pages of information there as well as practitioners of these methods to answer questions. You might also check out the books Kostas Danaos wrote; they have some basic information about these processes.

David is currently living and training with Wang Liping for the next few months, but stops by as often as he can to answer questions. Anybody is welcome to join and a lot of questions have already been answered in the articles David has posted there: http://foundation73.proboards55.com/

Sorry for the short answer, I'm just getting ready to leave for the holiday.

Best, S

I wouldn't come to conclusions on what Robert Peng knows and teaches based on one phone conversation with him. Also I don't think he would tell someone he doesn't know well about all the details of his knowledge..

 

From what we talked about on brakes during a workshop, I doubt anyone will ever know the complete picture of what he really knows. His talked about levitation, being totally in control of your bone structure so you can change your bone position at will to become a different person and absorbing the lightning - just a few of the things that come to mind. I believe his goal is also liberation/enlightenment and his particular training doesn't produce the effect of "electric qi". Does it mean it's less effective? Of course not. Different training produce different powers and different effects on the body and the abilities.

Max

I hear what your saying Max, but the fact that he told me point blank that he can't train people to his level or to do what he can do was pretty clear and honest. It's hard for me to consider persuing training with someone who is that clear at the outset that he is not really able to offer what I'm interested in; it's not a judgement, just a simple statement about the reality of the differences in achievement.

As for his own achievements, who knows.

There are differences between what Robert Peng does and the teaching within the Lei Shan Dao. The main one being that in Lei Shan Dao the goal is liberation and enlightenment (not necessarely the case with other methods).

What I'm getting at here is that the goal of developing the skill of discharging electric like qi, yin yang gong, is the basis for progressing to liberation in the Lei Shan Dao because it corresponds to an inner achievement of Liberation. In other systems this is not necessarily the case. For example, there are people who can absorb qi from the surrounding environment and discharge it; David can do this, but he has not achieved liberation, yet.

As for the effectiveness of Mr. Peng's teaching, of course I cannot comment because I haven't spoken with with his students or practiced what he teaches. For me personally, I'm satisfied with the answers that Robert himself gave me.

S

Dear Ian,

A very merry Christmas to you too! And thanks; 'it seems' you're not such a bad guy after all.

Peace, Sean

Beautiful. Now if someone cuts your hand off, kills your child, if you die is there 'okayness?' Is there really? This the subtle differentiation that the Buddhist, Taoist, Yogi, Saint, etc. strives to achieve; not just indentification with the true nature of mind, but the experience of all of the phenominal world, internal and external. Breaking the psychological indentification with self is not the same thing as absolute transendence of self. We still have to wake up in the morning and go to work.

S

One of David's students studied with Robert Thurman. His name is Ian Baker and he also a well known auther and friend of the Dali Lama. From what I understand, Thuman is pretty 'in the know' when it comes to Tibetan culture and practice. Some of his books are interesting.

Its not that D & C are always wrong, but it comes as combative, angry and stuffy. In your dissections your telling some wise people (I'm not included here) they don't know what the hell they're saying. Its not going to make you a good teacher.

I'm not here to 'teach.' Actually it was a question about what Ian was saying. It didn't make any sense to me or probably to him either. But that was just on one point he was making; the rest just sounded like him kicking sand in my face so I gave it the unserious response I felt it warrented.

My exposure to Buddhism in the Midwest, through books, temples, festivals and newsletters.... It may be wrong, don't care, its pragmatic loving and simple.

If enlightenment is something like all powerful, then I'm not going to make. Odds are you won't and if your master is at 2% then you'll be seeing him around next life. But I think the study and the effort can make us better people right now.

Khenpo, my Buddhism teacher, recalled many of his past lives at the age of five and begin trekking alone into the mountains to seek out masters at that time. He'll keep coming back until all sentient beings reach the full enlightenment of the Buddha. Once when he was giving a teaching, a man who had been secretly planning to commit suicide came up to receive a blessing from him. As he nelt down Khenpo touched his head and said, "Please don't kill yourself." The man burst in to tears and from that moment his life was changed forever.

Actually I'm quite confident that I will reach full enlightenment. Whether it's in this life or the next thousand isn't really important, but I promise to give it my best college try.

In the next few weeks I'll, hopefully, posts some further thoughts on why I feel the way I do. Perhaps this will bring a little more clarity to my position. We'll see.

S

Goodnight... howls at the moon, grunts a few times and does the neandertal walk back to cave. Wife smacks his face and growls as she bites neck...

It seems one of us has given up on even the basic concept of the forum. (But conceptualization may be a weak suit for that one in any case, such is the nature of narrow-mindedness).

 

That one member chooses to cast some of us, or all- as inferior to himself was bound to happen. It has happened at other forums and it will happen again. Open free-wheeling discourse is a sure way to make arrogant and narrow-minded folks take umbrage.

When one has little within themselves but aquired knowledge, yet little true wisdom, these things will happen.

So of course some of us will rely on spouting self-serving nonsense, in the name of "aquired wisdom", (that was maybe even foolishly bought and paid for at exhorbitant rate$...).

Speculation and wishful thinking on your part. What difference does it make how much money I've spent of what I choose to do with my life?

I guess one wishes to get one's money's worth. It is base and trite and simple-minded, but a natural response to having been ripped-off. We all like healthy returns on our investments. Even if we are not Yuppies.

 

If I had spent tens of thousands of dollars over the past ten years in a mighty effort to attain something that I am unable to grasp, and obviously have little capacity for after all; due to the basic lack of needed inner resources- that will naturally manifest in false hubris and spiteful nonsensical rancor.

Just sharing my point of view and pointing out that I felt you missunderstood what I was trying to say here. I found your responses weren't really accurate and a misdirection of what I was trying to communicate. Is saying so really so bad?

I'm enjoying my time here and I like good discussion and exchange. I don't respect all the opinions expressed here and had a desire to weigh in on these important topics. Personally I think your just as guilty of the rancor and narrow mindedness that you've accused me of having and I will continue to weigh in on similar topics as I see fit from time to time dispite your over reactions and undue criticism.

I will try to be a little me aware of your sensativity in future and I hope we have some more good debate.

Sincerely, Sean

You are really transparent, I wish you knew.

I think your character judgments about me are what's childish. I don't appreciate it and I said so. So what?

The problems people are having with you here, and I doubt it's just here you have these issues, don't really have anything to do with intellectual spiritual disagreements. There are thousands of posts on here amongst dozens and dozens of people, many with vastly different viewpoints, and nearly all of them civilly presenting their understanding of issues, listening carefully to other sides, being respectful, basically utilizing common sense social skills that we all learned in kindergarten. Something to think about.

I was very civil until I got blasted for a simple difference of opinion. If nobody else wants to play fare why should I? I live a very quiet hassle free life. What I learned in kindergarten is how to stand up for what I believe and say so.

Anyway, I think we should move away from the personal pokes and prods and character analysis. It was amusing but really nonstandard for the forum here. Normally I keep a pretty tight ship with the "no personal insult" policy so let's stick to it for real now.

I keep it it civil if you do, but if you what to stick it to me and rube dirt in my face, I'll playfully rub it back in yours. Nothing wrong with it really.

I think we have another Healing Tao casualty on the loose folks.

 

And I think I should change this thread title to "There is no lack of ego here".

 

Sean

Sean,

Maybe, since you've run out of rational arguments, you should ban me from the forum. I know you're dying to.

Is it possible that someone with a perspective different than what's been shared on this forum in the past is just being shut down because the ideas are too contrary to the village mentality and agreed upon norms?

"Hey guys, don't listen to this guy, he's crazy... ignor him!" All covered up with sly humor and back patting. I think your more interested in supporting your friends than having a real dialoge. If what I have to say was so outragous, why not just ignor it instead of getting all worked up and having a hissy fit over what some guy wrote on the internet? Let those who have some interest in what I have to share read in peace without stooping to meaningless, dismissive comments and attacks?

Me: I think enlightenment is different than what you think it is.

You: You're mentally deranged!!! I hate you!!!

Just a thought, S

Sean D. -Have your entries lately on this thread & others been hacked ? First its hugs and then its rancor relating to the same entry and then its more and sillier messages from you & now care bears and pics of flowers and such...on other threads -I'm thinking - 'tis odd this fella-

 

So- my regrets for pointing out your folly - seek a safe ancorage-you seem adrift. Good luck...

At this point I'm not really concerned about your opinion of me. Sorry if that wasn't clear.

Until you actually have something to write that sounds like truth is even a part of its content-beyond yr egoistic nonsense, I shall content myself with laughing at your hubris and folly.

Sorry I ruffled your feathers; I shall continue laugh at you in turn and we can both laugh at each other. And now I endeth this discourth move forwith awayth from thowith.

This coming from a guy in an ethnocentric fundamentalist cult who has faith in outrageous things he's never seen himself.

 

Sean

Right back at you new age, flaming Liberal neo-conformist, proliferater of mediocrity and yuppy flim flam.

Sean-

 

Sorry, I guess I am not seeing the light offered in your entries...But you do make a few good points amid the posings as benevolent sage...

This from a guy who's screen name is 'Wayfarer' and writes cheesy taoist poetry.

If there is light attempting to be shared, you really should work on your communication skills. You make assertions as if they are facts and then when disagreed with state that this " misunderstanding" is due to a lack of understanding of your truths- not your lack of clearity or being obtuse, (or perhaps mistaken)...

Let's not get carried away. I'm sooo sorry I didn't respond to your brillant response to my post with that seriousness that it deserves. I'm sure your used to being taken fare more seriously, your highness.

This sort of hubris is very disconcerting and I am glad to say quite rare here at the Taobum's. That you express this need to be "holier than thou" - illustrates to me a very real need on your part for some meditation on humility and hubris and where you feel yourself to be in that particular paradox of being...

Honestly, I'm just sharing my honest views. I don't think I've said I'm more holy than anyone. I think your mistaking Humility with politeness, which I'm not really very good at. Humility doesn't mean you should always be PC and agree with people.

I get the sense that you wish to help those of us here who read your entries in an honest and heartfelt act of giving. This is a beautiful thing. But it is still your truth as you see it and it seems to me that in the flux of this everchanging flow through time and space there may be ways for that truth to share reality with other truths.

I think you may be splitting hairs here.

What I am interested in knowing is what "popular" Buddhism is -...Do you mean the very materialistic Nishi Renishi or Nom Myho Renge Kio chanting covetous crew I've seen around the USA? That is like a bizarro-world Buddhism to me- chanting for a new car etc...

I've covered this.

Presuming to inform is common around here, but communicating to those who are up on a high horse is a pain in the neck. For me at this time, Absolutism seems out of place in Taoist thought...You do seem to be well informed and very dedicated so -go for it! I hope your truth rings true, for me there is a hollow thud to some of it, which may only be in how you state things, not what you state.

Absolutism? Where are you getting that? I think your being overly sensitive. Maybe my posts are just the megaphone in the ear you needed to light a little fire under your ass.

Peace, S

I always thought our first run in with an approach like yours would be through a born again Christian type stumbling onto the forum, irking everyone to convert with that southern density and insistence on literal scriptural understanding you just gotta love. I can't help but find immense humor in the fact that it ended up being a fundamentalist Taoist such as yourself. I didn't even know such a thing was possible.

BOW DOWN TO ME!!!! OR FACE THE WRATH OF THE IMMORTAL MASTERS (who are my best friends and yes I'm a super sweat level 53.5 Wizard so you can lick the chocolate coated center of my universe, which I am the center of )

But seriously, Come on!

you're winning me over

There's more where that came from...

And...