DentyDao

13

My plot to take over this website has come to an end, but now I'm planning to take over the world. It would have worked to... if it wasn't for those meddling kids.

Interesting stuff Cam. My respose wasn't directed at your comments.

I can't decide if this is fatalistic or nihilistic. Either way it's a bit limited to think that everything could be one sided. I think we need to carefully examine this view. The real 'you' is beyond such extremes as nonexistence. We have the ability to awaken from the dream. I think this is what happens when philosophy becomes a substitute for actual experience.

I need some conditioner for my conditioning.

The Dzogchen Khenpo I studied with says that Dzogchen tradition really respects Zen as a practice and teaching, but that it's much more difficult for most people to practice. From what I understand the goal is the same. I think it's clear that masters from both traditions have reached incredible levels, but when I look at the practices and the way they are received in the west, it's clear that Dzogchen has a broader appeal and accessability; especially the way it is present by Surya Das (aka Jeffery), who has done an amazing job of presenting the basic princibles of Dzogchen to the public in the US. Personally I agree with scholars in the west that Dzogchen is the 'new' spiritual practice for our generation. Interestingly, while the Ch'an thing could very well have influenced Dzogchen, David believes as do I that it was the Daoists who originally influenced this tradition. Specifically, the Vadjra which has many similarities with and shares many of the same principles with the Lei Shan Dao. Of course you won't find that in any books. Dzogchen, as may have already been mentioned, was very unpopular in many parts of Tibet until the current Dali Lama spoke out in it's defense. Many Buddhists feel that because Dzogchen uses the frame of "true nature," that it is a basterdized form of Hinduism. But Dzogchen's answer to this debate is that there can be no true nature without emptiness. Personally, I think it's a rather Daoist take. True nature=Shen; the unmanifest. Surya Das says that emptiness is not some void, it's dancing, formless, and full of variety. Something along those lines; a cosmic soup. I also like that Dzogchen means great inclusion or great vehical because of the idea that all Buddha's teachings are included, including the secret vadjra tantras. Most lay people in the Kham region of Tibet used to practice vadjra tantra and there are many records of people who attained the famous rainbow body, and ascentions which also has connections to Daoist history of such events.

No one here is even remotely qualified to comment on this issue. Are you kidding me. Listen to your doctors or do some research about alternative therapies that have been proven though clinic trials or at least significant case studies. And just know that whatever happens, you will get though it just fine by listening to your heart.

If someone like Max continues this practice well, he will eventually reach the entry point of the first stage, there are many name (Dhyana, Samadhi, etc.). I'm not versed on all the Buddhist terms, not something we discuss in Dzogchen openly, but anyway, the mind will become absorbed in the Shen to a greater degree and he will begin to go so deeply into meditation that the breath and the heart beat stop. This is actual meditation, or at least we can say it's beyond one pointed consentration. Everything else is considered a preperation for this state. It's quite remarkable to think that we can train the mind to let go to this degree. At this stage, some people begin to develop abilities powers, most of it useless. Also it is extremely important to have a master to guide you, as you may well know; thoughout this process, at least in every tradition I have been exposed to. The practitioner will be confronted by many demons/obstecals; personal, imagined, whatever. It's a dangerous process at this level that just illustrates all the more the importance and benifit of having a guide. This is just a higher degree of BE HERE NOW. Which isn't a concept that can be fully apreciated until you understand what this process really entails. It's a true letting go. The body is of course clincally alive even though no machine or device would find a pulse or detectable breath, there are many stories of meditators being buried alive. Some of that have studied with the HT know that Chia's teachers teacher was a yogi who would leave his body for months at a time to go deeply into the Shen and refine the immortal fetus. Sadly the knowledge of those practices do not make up what we now know as the HT. Think about the word ego. It meens the sense that 'I' exist. But who are we really? Are we this body? No. Are we this mind? No. We or 'I' is only a dream. Who is having this dream? The Shen. The true nature of your mind. The Bodhi mind. To really let go or to really be here now is to be one with the Shen and one with your true nature. Who here has reached this state? I want to introduce a little Buddhist philosophy. I'm not enlightened or anything. But this exercise is just to illustrate a point. So this raises the question, what about this body? What about this mind? They are the result of your thinking only, they are the illusion created by grasping. I am my body and I am in control, is just a dream. So how do we get to the real us? Letting go. But, just wanting to let go is not enough. We have to direct the dream. This is the gift of the dreamer. The ability to change the dream. In the whole universe, there is one remote control; that is your thinking. Change your thinking and the whole universe will change. How hard is it to change your thinking? Very, very hard. Like chopping down a mountain with the back of your hand. All Daoist practice is the art of directing the mind to it's source. The master or guru or teacher is at the source, shining the lamp that will point the way. That's all. Nothing fancy or anything to get excited about. But for those souls who are ready to take that journey the master simply provides a road map showing the way. The student in turn must have complete trust and faith in the masters abilities and put his life in the masters hands, not an easy thing to do. That is why the master shows his true nature only to those who are ready and only to those who are willing to let go. Again this goes for all traditions, and even applies whether your master is another human being, or just Dao or God for the truly fortunite ones to have such a grand relationship. This whole thing is not about creating fear and having power. Any master worth the name knows that. But this idea of complete surrender is something that happens way down the line in your practice and development. Very few are really ready to take on such a task. And many who do fail and the ego takes over again. When theis happens and the student has developed some powers, it can spell big trouble for the student. Especially if those powers are missused. You can imagine. One of John Chang's students, not that John is enlightened, was kicked out of the school for winning hundred of thousands of dollars gambling. He was using his gifts to make money which is strictly forbiddon is Mo Pai. I had to take this oath myself and I can tell you they take it very seriously. Or even worse, people get hurt or the student himself gets killed. It's also a good point to make that the masters have no judgements about those who don't wish to be involved in such endeavors. At least the ones who are genuine. A simple life lived well is worth a thousand lives of reckless striving for enlightenment. Anyway, good points on all sides in this discussion. I would say, if you are going for Daoist cultivation, get a teacher. And, if not, just enjoy life. Either way you are bound to have good times and bad and either way you are probably coming back a few more times at least. As the Dali Lama says, just be good.

Link to Essay This is an essay on the authentic sexual cultivation methods practiced by the immortal sages of ancient China. Many people drawn to cultivation and Taoist sexual arts will be surprised to learn the depth and complexity of these practices is actually NOT addressed in most of the popular literature and teachings on the subject. Enjoy. Link to Essay Number two This is second essay, also about sexual cultivation. This essay focuses on questions raised by the first essay above. Warm Regards, Sean

I added one thing about the Dan tien in my last post that you should read. It will help clarify what I was trying to point out. It also showws why the teacher can be such a useful tool.

I do see your points and couldn't agree more basically. I don't know if John Chang is an agnosic or if that would even limit his ability to be a "true" Christian About the Ch'an method, it's the same in Dzogchen and also in Taoism, to enter this nonconceptual state of no-self awareness, is the first step in the process. To then allow yourself to remain perfectly stabalized in this state for about two hours is the first basic accomplishment, as I understand it. Once you can enter this non dual state for four hours at will any day of the week, you are ready to begin formally practicing cultivation. The Dantien has been Created. This takes about three to four years with the proper methods and a qualified teacher. If you have a good teacher and a good method, you actually don't need a master around all the time to succeed. Of course it helps, but the master really comes in later when you progress and start getting closer to Tai Ji or the real joining of ying and yang qi that happens at level four. This is just Lei Shan Dao, there are other methods to join yin and yang with different effects and results; Yang Shen Dao is one; this is also the known as the classic immortal fetus that we read about in the alchemical texts. The goal for both however is the same, liberation. That's it for me today, I have to go study for my real estate exams. By Gents. Oh and do feel free tp pop on over to the foundation forum for your T-shirts and Lei Sahn Dao Videos...

Again I wouldn't be comfortable doing that and it wouldn't be appropriate. You are welcome to ask anything to want on the forum or PM David directly. That's way I made the forum. Actually these abilities develop naturally with proper practice and without any emphasis on sex.

This is a reponse to Vortex's question, You might be right, but again what is the point. These big questions are beyond the scope of a forum. If you what to practice Taoism, start at the beginning and create your Dan. Than you can worry about God and whether Dao comes from within or whatever. The Dao is within is a bit of a misnomer. My Buddhism teacher says this is like reading the Newyork times and claiming you are actually reading the London times. You first would have to go get the London Times. Then you can say you are actually reading it. This is the basic problem of people who think they have already arrived somewhere, thinking they since they are from the Dao that there is no practice and nothing to accomplish. Just be in the moment, right. Who ever can really be in the moment, I mean really still the mind and totally let go at will. They are really immortal. It's just that doing this takes years of cultivation and the right person to guide you there. very few can do it alone. If it is accomplished in this way of just letting go, it's a process that can take decades even with a good master. Or even lifetimes. Human birth is so rare, why wouldn't we seek out a master? even if we decide to go it alone, at least we have the added benifit of having explored a new perspective. Here's what so great about Taoist Cultivation, it's more efficient. Work smarter not harder. But of course, many need to still figure out if they really want to be enlightened at all. I mean this life is pretty amazing sometimes. I think we all realize that Enlightenment is just a word. It was a phrase used by the Buddhas and others before them. It just means know your self. Caste a light on your self or be a light unto your self. Because, after all you are the only 'thing' that you can really truly know. You are the only world expert on you. This does not mean that you don't need a master. Quite the opposite and this is a big mistake in my opinion. The depth of really knowing your self is vaste and deeper than any of us can possibly realize. Therefor is it wise to seek the guidence of a master. A WayFarer into the light and out of the Darkness of ignorance. Some people think they are enlightened or Buddhas already. These ideas need to be skillfully examined. The Buddha said it is pride that says we don't need help from outside ourselves, that WE alone are the only ones qualified to assist ourselves. This is the pride and ignorance of the ego that says WE have arrived and we know it all. It's the idea of the Shen and the Bodhi Mind which are interchangable terms. The dreamer that is dreaming to be you. Your true face. It is only through communion with this source which is OUTSIDE the self that we can escape the fisherman's net that Lao Tzu spoke of. Think on it. It is the same metaphor in Christainity, "For when the will of the host is aligned with the guest, is one with it, then the lord reveals himself." The father and the son and the holy ghost. Actually I think we are all in agreement on many of these points. The only suggestion I would make is to find a good guide. They really help you see things a lot faster and without all the blind alleys. Plus the really high level beings out there are waiting for qualified students to develop the ability to receive higher teachings. I think most of us are too pround to even learn the basics, which requires humbling your self in front of another being besides you and saying okay, you know something I want. Most of us are repulsed by the idea at first. The once we get over the embarresment of realizing how fucked we are, we just get on with the learning. This is the first quality that a master in any tradition or school will look for, the ability to swallow your pride and get past your embarresment and receive the teachings. It's called sincerity or reverence. I was staying on topic, I thought. I can promote my school as much as I like whenever I like and who says I have to always be exactly on topic. That's not a rule of this forum.

Cameron, think about what you are asking. I'm am supposed to run this little request over to my teacher for you and get right back to you? Ask him yourself. If David knows the guy he will give you an honest answer. He has recommended teachers before, not that it's his job to do such things.

Why make a judgement. John says he's a Cristian and follows the christian ideal. Who the hell are we to start debating what his beliefs are and are not and what difference would it make? Are we really looking to someone we have only read about and asking these questions? I mean what is the point of that. If we really wanted to know the truth we would go ask John Chang, anything else just speaks about itself. John has said he believes in God with a capital G. I just take him at his word. Who cares about the rest it has no meaning to us and it can't possibly. That's my feeling. Sign up for Mo Pai Training today. Operators are standing by to take your money NOW!

Testical breathing? are you joking? for what purpose? to nurish the brain? Does your brain, at your age need nurishment? The system as a whole is based on a lie. Basic qigong is being touted as cultivation. That's the first lie. Did you know several HT instructors have serious cronic health issues that know one knows about. Includingthe ones who claim to has made adjustments to creat a safer system. Why are you doing practices that are mostly taught to men over fifty who have burnt out there libido and have a 50/50 success rate even with herbs and medical qigong? Is it going to kill you? No, your young and strong like Bull. Could it over time undermine your ability to successfull practice cultivation, absolutely. Could it over ten/twenty years cause serious problems, I certainly wouldn't take that risk, not if I knew better. We have all heard of such things. Read David's essay again. Real reversionary practices are very rare, ven people who have some mastery are often missing the full picture. These exercises have no significant effect on the brain. That would be absurd. Now maybe celibacy, or moderate sex would prevent a perdisposition to the aging of the brain or something like that, but lot's of reserch says differently. Just as many monks go senile as sexually active folks, as far as I know. If this weren't the case, I think we'd be hearing something about it. But it's not, science encourages sex in moderation all the way up into the 80 and 90 year old grandpa's out there. No one is saying ejaculation doesn't take a toll on the body. If you want to retain your sperm I would suggest Stephen Chang or maybe Plato's Dr. Lin or something. I'm not really familiar with Lin, but I have read Plato's book and I think the techniques are at least an improvement. Even with that, if misused you could get problems. But, ejactulation is healthy. I think this drain is just a biological mechanism. It has little to do with real long term health. Look at healthy people who live long productive lives, most of them are having lots of normal sex. We, especially those of us who have been through the HT, need to deprogram a bit and realize that things aren't quite as they seem.

Vortex, You have answered your own question. When a master like John Chang prays to God, God actually shows up. So, what was his reaction to this experience. He says he doesn't make judgements or form beliefs around such things. If you read the book you know what happened. An incredibly powerfull being of light desended from the heavens with such force it woke John out of deep meditation and created a large crater in the ground around John's camp in the wilderness. This is the same holy fire and light that Moses, and others, met in his search. God is real, but also beyond our understanding. Anyway, as you know, many would bow down and worship such a being, but John did no such thing. he just stayed with this being for three days and asked many questions, not making a judgements or offering his devotion. Who knows if it was some avatar or what. Even John does not really know. But he does know that something is listening out there and there are forces that we don't understand that guide and watch over. During the course ofthose three days, much wa revealed to John about what it means to be a human being. Some things he has never shared with anyone, not even friends. My point is not to get into a discussion here, but simply to illustrate that what the reality is just IS. Belief or opinion really doesn't enter into it. John Chang is a devoted Christian and goes to church regularly. Does he believe Jesus is the only savior? Probably not, but I don't think even Jesus intended his life to be interprited that way. The ignorance of the massess has nothing to do with reality, but also know that people with very simple beliefs can reach the heaven too. It's really not about having the right politically correct version of the gospell. It's about what is between you and 'your lord' whatever that is to you, period. There's really little to discuss on the matter in my opinion.

Retention just leads to repressed sex drive. This happens with all animals, it's a natural impulse to trigger mating. Animals usually, with due exception of some primates, generally don't masterbate. These practices don't lead to real reversion of jing and they don't give greater energy. They are like viagra, slowly sucking the life; while all the while you feel like a rock hard rock star; until the long term effect takes it's tole on your root and you are left incapable of undertaking any kind of cultivation. It can, as David is trying to warn people, permently burn out your channels and create the problems he has written about, some so vile you would recoil at the mere thought of it. As for ejaculating once in a while as a safe guard, it really makes little difference with regard to some the problems that can occur. Now, if used in the proper way, some the of basic sexual techniques can be theraputic and definity improve the sensation and duration of sex. But you need to be careful here too. The minute you become obsessive and start mixing and combining with meditation, you take a risk. The irony here is that it's more of an issue for younger men who are the ones more likely to get confused and misuse these things. The chances of something going wrong are about 50/50 even if you do everything right. What's more, it's better to go to a tcm clinic in China and learn the practice from a doctor than use the HT methods. Even Winn's are flawed. I would be much more in favor of Stephan Chang's work if you are looking for a more balance method. Ron Diana seemed to feel this was a good alternative.

From David: "Dear Sean My name is plenty discussed already, I'm afraid that partial quoting can be even worse then whole:-) it is ok if people paraphrase my words, disclaiming it is NOT what I mean but what they understand, and by doing so they take any blame for misunderstanding or msiquotation or mirepresentation of the practice or my masters and I." Spyrolex, I know you mean well. But David prefers not to be quoted. Perhaps in a US court of law, you would be admonished. But you are going against the wishes of David and the masters. There is some karmic weight here. I just say that so you are aware, not as a threat. David was not suggesting anyone has this degree of personality imbalance. He was exaggerating to illustrate a point. What you quoted is fine and your comments are intended to be balanced, but you are setting a precident for others that is disrespectful. How hard would it be to paraphrase as he asks and put those quotations in your own words? I think it's worth the effort to maintain the dignity and honor we all feel toward David and his teachers. Thx, I have a feeling you will understand. This is all I will say on the matter.

Link to Essay Of all the essays writen by David in the past year. This one is by far one very best. I have already received about ten emails with comments, questions and praise regarding it's contents, and it was just posted earlier today. Anybody here is welcome to join in the discussion there. Warm regards, Sean

"Dear Sean My name is plenty discussed already, I'm afraid that partial quoting can be even worse then whole:-) it is ok if people paraphrase my words disclaiming it is NOT what i mean but what they understand, and by doing so they take any blame for misunderstanding or misquotation or misrepresentation of the practice or my masters and I."

Just to be totally transparent on the issue I have sent the following to David: "One question that has been asked is can people make partial quotes of your writing on other discussion forums? For example, most US copyright law allows for 10-20% usage. I said probably not, but that I would ask." If he agrees to this I would be fine with it. But again, this seems unlikely in light of past discussions. Best, S

I think the members here are mature enough to respect this simple request. I posted the links in good faith and if people want to violate it, then I have no control over that. I only posted these few links to address particular issues I feel are usefull given recent discussions. I do see your point and I have posted our privacy policy in the welcome section so people understand the idea. It's pretty clear to me now that I have underestimated the fairness of the membership here in some cases. I was too defensive. Now that the air is cleared a bit I think people will just take the links for what they are intended and check it out if they want to or not. Anyway, you can discuss them as much as you want here without having to copy the material. This the Chinese way. People think I'm kidding when I talk about the "Chinese Mind." I think some people think I was talking about some brain structure differences or something. No such thing. They just have different views about things. It's not good or bad or better or worse, it just is what it is. I'm just the messenger.